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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Heroes 4 necropolis speculations
Thread: Heroes 4 necropolis speculations
UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


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happily tilting at windmills
posted July 29, 2001 08:18 PM
Edited By: UnkaHaakon on 29 Jul 2001

Heroes 4 necropolis speculations

On the 'Wyverns' thread, Sha_Men spoke of the loss of vampires in Heroes4 and how it seemed odd that we hadn't seen them in the Necropolis shots yet.

So, I took a close ..really close look at the IGN screenshot that shows necropolis troops in action, and I think I spotted something.

If you take a look at the stack just to the left of the Venom Spawns, notice the lean, hungry look to it, and the suggestion of long, clawed hands. This, I submit, may actually be our missing vampires. I couldn't get enough resolution to be sure, but the face seems sharp-featured as well, like many of the vampire heroes in Heroes3.

Based on this speculation, I think the line-up for the Necropolis will go something like this (based on the combat and town screenshots):
Level 1:
Skeleton (gotta have 'em):  walker
Gargoyle (bet they're back to coming from a crypt): flyer
Level 2:
Cereberus (Guardian of the Netherworld): walker
"Banshee" (I still think it's the new wraith): flyer
Level 3:
Venom Spawn (my current pick for ugliest creature): shooter
Vampire Lord (if my guess is right): flyer
Level 4:
Ghost/Bone Dragon ( I suppose they had to have 'em): flyer
Devil (we've been told they're in the game): flyer?

Further staring at the necropolis screenshot makes me think you can either go the Undead or Infernal route when building your town up.
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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


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Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 29, 2001 08:41 PM

I'm still here...

Unkahaakon...
Yes, it's very much possible you spotted them.
They surely look strange...
Or are there any other creatures that could fit into Necropolis theme and has such a long claws?...

I believe that those creatures you mentioned are in.
But how do you know that cerberus is in that town?
They are neutral in that screenshot you are talking about...

And surely that Venom Spawn looks awful, maybe it scares enemies of by it's looks, btw it reminds me of someone in this forum...

Those bone/ghostdragons look at least more powerful before but are they up to their job/level? Maybe they have the same speciality as ghostdragons in HoMM3. And maybe it has increased chance to succeed? I would really like Necropolis in that case...
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Oldtimer
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posted July 29, 2001 08:47 PM

What's a necromancer without corpses?  Are there no zombies?

I believe that the most famous necromancer is Dr. Frankenstein and I would like to see Zombies more like his monster, or was his monster a flesh Golem?
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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


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posted July 29, 2001 11:36 PM

Quote:
But how do you know that cerberus is in that town?
They are neutral in that screenshot you are talking about...



To be honest, I don't. I merely made the old SWAG (Scientific Wild Arse Guess) based on a couple of suppositions which I freely admit may be wrong.

Supposition 1:
The IGN screenshots seem to show creatures from the same town battling it out.

Supposition 2:
The Necropolis is not just about the Undead, but Death. That's why this seems to be where the devils fit in, directly opposed to the angels in the Haven (Life). In Classical mythology, Cerberus guards the gates to the underworld, hence the association with death, so his lesser brethern would seem to fit in with the death theme.
On a side note, I think this is why the efreets have gone to the Asylum (Chaos) to oppose the genies in the Academy (Order).

Regarding Zombies: I think that, if they're in H4, they'd be in the Necropolis, (This throws my Undead/Infernal building path idea out of the window, and puts the cerberi as neutral creatures) but I'm not sure they made the cut. They were about the least used undead in heroes 2 and 3, and I for one won't miss 'em much. On the other hand, it may be that zombies are the other 1st level in the Necropolis and gargoyles are neutral creatures. This doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense, as the other towns seem to get a walker and a flyer or shooter at first level, not two walkers. I just can't see zombies as second level creatures in H4 unless they've really been improved.
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OzzyOsbourne
OzzyOsbourne


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Riddler of the Sky
posted July 30, 2001 11:23 AM

Dr.Frankenstein was a weird person back then dude.. When they caught him and hung him, he placed a gray tube in his throat to keep the airhole wide enough to breathe.. When they put him in his tomb, He pretended dead until that night. then carved a piece out of his tomb, and escaped to the oceans and was never seen or heard of till this day... and the fact that experiements almost worked with dead bodies.. With that technology he had at that tim is quite amazing..
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arachnid
arachnid


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posted July 30, 2001 04:20 PM

Quote:
Dr.Frankenstein was a weird person back then dude.. When they caught him and hung him, he placed a gray tube in his throat to keep the airhole wide enough to breathe.. When they put him in his tomb, He pretended dead until that night. then carved a piece out of his tomb, and escaped to the oceans and was never seen or heard of till this day... and the fact that experiements almost worked with dead bodies.. With that technology he had at that tim is quite amazing..


um.....................

Frankenstein is a great book written by Mary Shelly in 1818.
The book is totally fiction about a man (Dr .victor frankenstein) trying to stop the dying process (after his mother dies ) and ends up in bringing a man/monster to life from dead peoples organs and skin. After seeing what he has created he flees in terror leaving his monsterous creation to fend for its self (but whos the real monster eh ?), anyway i wont ruin the book but its totally superb and is truely scary (especially when you think when it was written)

So the only bit of truth that you wrote is his name i have no idea where you came up with the rest.
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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


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happily tilting at windmills
posted July 30, 2001 06:26 PM

"Let me say words you don't forget"???

Quote:
1st... That vampire creature you all talking about is a mummy... (look at his white form)


This coming from the person who said a picture of a wolf was some sort of serpent creature?

So you base your entire analysis on color? Not the best sort of logic. Especially since the creature in question is not what I would call white, but that may be my old eyes.

ROTFL

Tell you what... I'm willing to wait and see. If I'm wrong, no big deal. I based my analysis on the best available data. (Carefully looking at the creature in question under the best resolution I could get, extrapolating the lineup for the Necropolis based on past Heroes games,etc.) If new facts are presented, I can freely admit I made a bad call. I've had to do it on matters far more important than a game.

However, if you want your arguments to be taken seriously, whether it be on game matters, or real life, I'd suggest learning to explain your line of reasoning, and be ready to give your arguments a little more substance than "Let me say words you don't forget"


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arachnid
arachnid


Promising
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posted July 31, 2001 06:09 AM

Quote:
Every legend genius creature mythology and Fantasy creature has 10000 versions of stories.. I tought dr.frankenstein created Frankenstein monster with several limbs of other humans.. the experiment get out of hand and the monster becomes EVIL..


nope not this one this one only has one and what you thought is what i wrote so...........
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niteshade
niteshade


Known Hero
posted July 31, 2001 11:44 AM

Yeah Arachnid is right, the Frankenstein story is pretty specific. There is the original book, and a couple of movie versions, and that's it. And none of them involve extra limbs or anything like that.

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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


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happily tilting at windmills
posted July 31, 2001 07:44 PM

Quote:
Hmmm Are you mad on me because i have a fight with the green witch?

ROTFLMAO

Kid, if I make a post because I'm mad it you, you'll know it. And, it won't be because of anyone else, it'll be because you brought it on yourself.

I began this thread with a speculation based on facts, reasoning, and observation. For example:
Fact: We hadn't seen a vampire in any of the screen shots that we knew of.
Fact: Vampire Lords have long been one of the heavy hitters in the Necropolis lineup. They have a unique special ability.
Reasoning: Given their popularity and special ability, they *should* be a big part of the Necropolis lineup in Heroes 4.
Observation: The unidentified figure in the necropolis troops battle screenshot displayed some vampire characteristics when I looked at it closely.
Speculation: Is this our missing Vampire Lord in a new makeover?

Now, your well-thought out reply was, in effect:
It's a mummy because I say it is and it's white.

I replied by pointing out a distinct example of where your powers of observation and deductive reasoning were shown to be lacking, and challenged you to support your argument in this case. You still haven't done so.

You did try and get an answer directly from 3DO on the question, which would have been good if it had been more helpful.

So the question remains: Is it a vampire or not?
I say it MAY be, based on my arguments in this thread.
You say it MUST be a mummy, because it's white.

Try your sort of logic in one of the unmoderated Usenet newsgroups. Be sure you're wearing your fireproof shorts when you do so.
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OzzyOsbourne
OzzyOsbourne


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Riddler of the Sky
posted August 01, 2001 11:57 AM



Quote:
um.....................

Frankenstein is a great book written by Mary Shelly in 1818.
The book is totally fiction about a man (Dr .victor frankenstein) trying to stop the dying process (after his mother dies ) and ends up in bringing a man/monster to life from dead peoples organs and skin. After seeing what he has created he flees in terror leaving his monsterous creation to fend for its self (but whos the real monster eh ?), anyway i wont ruin the book but its totally superb and is truely scary (especially when you think when it was written)

So the only bit of truth that you wrote is his name i have no idea where you came up with the rest.



Well they discovered 'Dr. Frankenstein's' grave in Europe.. But his name wasn't Victor Frankenstein.. And the book got all of it's details from this case.. Read my last post again and thats all the correct information.. They even found his castle and the room where he practiced all of his experiements in..
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arachnid
arachnid


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posted August 01, 2001 01:18 PM

Its fiction not fact there never was a frankenstein that tried to bring dead people back to life i have no idea where your getting this information.

Think about this if there really was a man like this do you not think there would be huge ammounts of information about him and everyone would know about him just like Jack the Ripper?

Theres a simple reason why theres none since it was a horror story made by a young woman to impress her friends.
(If your think im wrong show me pages of information on this "real" frankenstein)
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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


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happily tilting at windmills
posted August 02, 2001 03:40 AM

Quote:
Vampires LOOK REALLY DIFFERENT.. it must be a zombie or Most of all a Mummy... I think it's a mummy... I know much about creatures and that thing just look like a mummy.. vampires are mostly dressed BLACK.. or have Black capes and something.. they aren't in white mummy paper or whatever that is called in america/england. gyps?   But you will see it yourself that i'm right...  just wait..


White? Check your screen colors, please. The figure in question is mostly rendered in blacks and greys when looked in in 32bit color. The only areas of white seem to be obvious highlights.

Remember one thing: I haven't claimed to be right, I am speculating. It's what I have been trained to do: draw conclusions based on available data. If I'm right, I'll take a small measure of personal pride in having reached the correct conclusion on very limited data. If I'm wrong, it will be because data I didn't have at the time would have led to another conclusion, and so won't matter all that much to me personally.

In this discussion, I have tried to treat you as an adult, asking you to explain your reasoning. (Please don't use the crutch of being a non-English speaker. Your English seems good enough to go on and on about yourself and various creatures.) Your responses have been, in effect: "Because I say so." That argument only works when the speaker has credibility.(For instance, a designer from 3DO can make a claim like that.) I'm sorry to say, your unsupported opinions don't carry much weight in this case.

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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


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Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted August 02, 2001 05:28 AM

Urban Legends...

Arachnic and Ozzy...

About this little debate with Dr.Frankenstein...
I have heard a story that is believed to be true. It is about man who tried to animate dead bodies (despite it being impossible). No, it's not the Frankenstein by Mary Shelley. In this story this man is some kind of mad doctor and tries to do some alchemististic and other stuff until he is taken away and executioned. But because he studied how human body reacts into death he uses his trickery and survives. Nobody sees him ever again.
I think that Dr.Frankenstein was truly urban legend to tell kids and other people to scare and amuse them. Shelley possible heard this story and wrote it down. After that all these stories about "mad men doing weird experiences" are put under story of Dr.Frankenstein. Why more people don't know about this original story? Well it's possible it wasn't even well known then and after that book people have put all these stories as originally being written by Mary Shelley.

About Jack the Ripper...
Another urban legend. Some say he didn't even truly existed what is also being said from Dr.Frankenstein. Some say that Jack the Ripper was just a story to make people understand the horrors of murder in big city. Some say that there was some kind of occultisc cult behind all the murders at that time which just tried to test how murder can be done. Some say that Jack stopped murdering first and then changed his ways or moved to another place to do them. Then there's the story telling that first murder was done by just some nutcake and Jack the Ripper was first "copycat" which copied the ways to murder people from that nutcake.
There is even hint that this whole story was used as morale teaching and only told to scare innocent young women not going to being lonely in the streets or to be streetgirls.

However I'm not truly expert in these issues but this what I have read earlier in my life. So they are kinda based into facts...

And about facts...
Incubus and Unkahaakon.
I must agree with almost both of you. First of all I want to say that there isn't real truth about are those creatures in that screenshot mummies or vampires. As time has gone from the first time I saw those screens I have kinda started have feeling that they are mummies.
This would mean that Incubus is right.
However I agree with Unkahaakon that there isn't really any prove them being anything yet. It doesn't really help if one says that
"they are what I see and you will see that too....just wait."
This is all speculation not any trivia contest. From what I can see there is some proof at them being mummies and some them being as vampires. They look like having clothes of mummies but what are those claws?
I just have a bad feeling that they are mummies.
Maybe Necropolis and it's some new units would have been too strong if Vampires with their specials are in. However it's totally stupid to take them away as in new HoMM is said to every creature having their specialty and I can say that Vampires were truly unique in their special. They almost made what Necropolis was in HoMM2 and 3 along with Liches and skeleton hordes. And if there aren't even any liches, vampires or even zombies (not that I miss them if they wouldn't have been little more useful as they were)
there are only the skeleton hordes left...

I wish they would be vampires...*sigh*...
Only 3DO knows what to expect...
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arachnid
arachnid


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posted August 02, 2001 07:50 AM

Quote:
Arachnic and Ozzy...

About this little debate with Dr.Frankenstein...
I have heard a story that is believed to be true. It is about man who tried to animate dead bodies (despite it being impossible). No, it's not the Frankenstein by Mary Shelley. In this story this man is some kind of mad doctor and tries to do some alchemististic and other stuff until he is taken away and executioned. But because he studied how human body reacts into death he uses his trickery and survives. Nobody sees him ever again.
I think that Dr.Frankenstein was truly urban legend to tell kids and other people to scare and amuse them. Shelley possible heard this story and wrote it down. After that all these stories about "mad men doing weird experiences" are put under story of Dr.Frankenstein. Why more people don't know about this original story? Well it's possible it wasn't even well known then and after that book people have put all these stories as originally being written by Mary Shelley.
quote]

Do you not think its very likely that this story you heard was written AFTER the book since you seem to have no proof of it at all other than word of mouth. An urban legend by its own defention a story with a small bit of truth thats been added to over the years until its all just myth.

This is exactly what this story is ok over the years lots of people have tried to cheat death, this however in know way means that there ever was a Dr Frankenstein that tried to bring people back from the death and that he also cheated death now does it?
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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


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Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted August 02, 2001 12:28 PM

I said it's believed to be true...

I have never heard is this story really true.
What I said is that if one hears "true" story it is often just urban legend and not really true. It's possible there  have been madman really trying to do something like Dr.Frankenstein did in the book but I have not single proof at all.
I just wanted to comment your debate about this doctor as it seems that Ozzy claimed something to be fact and you (Arachnic) said that it's fiction...when in many cases we cannot know what really is true and what isn't. Of course there is the possibility that urban legend was born AFTER the book was written by Mary Shelley. I said I THINK story was urban legend before because I have read from more than one source (don't recall them as it stands I read them long ago) that story was truly urban legend first.

Of course this madman didn't succeed animating bodies because it's impossible. However some have maybe heard stories about people that are thought about being dead (no signs of breathing, heart beat) still have "raised from the dead" after hour or two.
And these people truly exist...
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Oldtimer
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posted August 02, 2001 02:13 PM

Incubus: Vampires were in heroes 2 they looked like dracula and said "blah" when they attacked.  If anything vampire lords were more powerful in heroes 2 than heroes 3.  If they are not in the necropolis it may be possible that the haunted mantion will be on the map as a nuetral.
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Shae_Trielle
Shae_Trielle


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of Heroes
posted August 02, 2001 05:47 PM

To be or not to be

Sorry Haak, but I think Inky may be right. I've had a really close look at the picture and now I'm all fuzzyeyed and need 4 inch thick glasses. I think it's a mummy. It sure looks like it's wrapped up in something and it has those long emancipated (!) limbs that you would commonly see in something in an advanced state of decompose. Vampires traditionally don't suffer from decomposition because they drink blood to keep their bodies from doing so. Besides, vampires would generally take on a certain regal appearance (where's the cloak for starters?) and I thought that they traditionally looked like Dracula.

Then again, the behemoths look like monkeys and nothing like the full bodied beasts they were in Homm3. They look rather thin and anorexic too... but I'll go with Incubus' theory on this one.

*smile*

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OzzyOsbourne
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posted August 02, 2001 07:18 PM

hmm i shouldnt of said anything about what they discovered and put in Museums of Victor F.,. Now you're all fighting about it.
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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


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posted August 02, 2001 08:57 PM

Vampire? Mummy? It doesn't really matter

Please note I never made any absolute claims. I was speculating.

All my subsequent replies were mainly intended to get Incubus to defend his rather blunt statements with some sort of reasoning.

I am pleased to note that he finally started doing so. Keep it up, Incubus. Not that it may mean anything to you, but I'm very proud of you for that. (Checks another windmill off his list)

As to whether it's really a vampire, or a mummy, or an agent of the US Internal Revenue service, I really don't give a rat's caboose. I was engaging in an intellectual excercise from the start. With my creaky bones, it's about all the excercise I've been getting lately LOL

Ok, so on to the next windmill :-)
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