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| Thread: magic system in h5 | |
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satyr
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 04, 2005 10:15 PM |
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magic system in h5
my idea of homm5 is to make it more like "might and magic" series, from which it takes origins.
as for magic system, instead of 4 elemental magics in h3 or life/order/death/life magic in h4 (which is much worse system i think), i suggest 7 schools of magic
air/water/earth/fire/mind/body/spirit like in "might&magic"
its up to fans to invent spells, but most of them can be taken from M&M. as for me, it annoyed me that for example -hypnotise- was air, not mind spell
light and dark magic might be also added in some expansion
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ArchWarlock
Tavern Dweller
True Gentleman
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posted January 18, 2005 03:14 AM |
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As cool as that would be, not only would it be extremly hard for the people at UbiSoft to program all those spells, assuming a decent number of spells per school vis-a-vis M&M, but the task of balancing all the spells would be impossible. I mean, the spells in M&M weren't even balanced right! Name one instance you ever used Fire Blast instead of Shrapmetal, or even CAST a spell like Rock Blast. You can go through the entire game (and I mean entire, as in lvl 175 chars) without ever finding a practical use for half the spells in the game *exaggerated*. To try to use that system in HoMM 5 would assuredly be a disaster.
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Experience rarely does anyone good, it just does them in.
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Armageddonic...
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 18, 2005 07:17 PM |
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God, that's clichè. Not as an insult, but try to think new. The only good magic system I can think of has not yet been used, and that's separate religions, one for each town.
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satyr
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 20, 2005 10:46 PM |
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the fact that spells in MM werent balanced, doesnt mean homm5 to be unbalanced either, despite magic taken from MM.
I didnt tell that all spells should be transferred from MM, but some are good ideas. Changing spell statistic to make game balanced is not a problem. Besides, there always will be stronger and weaker spells. The point is to make every spell useful in certain situation (for example, some weaker spells might have synergy effect with some other)
Even "torch light" will be useful if homm5 makers decide that every third turn is night (like in warcraft)
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted January 21, 2005 10:29 PM |
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From what I can tell, the system that Armageddonic... is refering to has just been used in H4 except branching towards neighboring spell systems, and I think it performs well. I think it would simplify (in a bad sense) the game if a hero could learn only his specific spells. It's cool to get into other towns and learn "small" but useful spells like shielding, when you don't have it.
Also, I don't think that less effective spells (meaning entry level or 2'nd level) are not useful. I have used over and over again petty spells when after o day with 3 consecutive battles would leave me with only 6-10 spell points. The problem arrises only when you pay for a level 3 or 4 magic tower and all you get is a crappy spell.
As a conclusion, I think h4 system performs well, it only needs refining.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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drlucifer
Adventuring Hero
The Surgeon of Death
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posted January 22, 2005 01:32 AM |
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I agree... I thought H4 magic system was good because:
a) Each branch of magic had its own "specialty" i.e. damage spells for Chaos, curses for Death, etc.
b) Each hero could concentrate on one or two branches of magic, instead of having to spread out into Earth/Fire/Water/Air.
c) Each hero could pick up other branches of magic as secondary skills and cast low-level spells like Poison or Haste to complement their higher level spells.
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Doctors are not necessarily your friends.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted January 22, 2005 06:43 PM |
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HOMM4 skill system should be kept, but get rid of Master and Grandmaster levels. It took too long to get far in any one skill.
The worst thing about HOMM4's Magic system is that it was way too restrictive. The symmetry allowed for no expansion or new towns to be added which was bad.
Find a way around that and it'll be fine.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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tyler
Known Hero
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posted January 27, 2005 10:06 AM |
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Quote:
life/order/death/life magic in h4 (which is much worse system i think)
Since one seems to know some things about the sistem one can even affort to think abou it 
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Sir, we are surrounded! Excellent, now we can attack in any direction!
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Seraph
Tavern Dweller
enlightened devil
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posted January 30, 2005 04:29 PM |
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Quote:
HOMM4 skill system should be kept, but get rid of Master and Grandmaster levels.
If you can't even have the hope to be grandmaster one day, that's not worth playing. I think it's best if we can keep that many levels, it's more fun, especially when playing XL maps or campaigns.
PS: excuse me for my english. I'm french and I do my best.
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Armageddonic...
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 31, 2005 11:14 PM |
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What are everybody arguing about? The magic system in HOMM IV was perfect, the systems in the rest of the games were bad. That's it.
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draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 01, 2005 02:09 AM |
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Quote:
HOMM4 skill system should be kept, but get rid of Master and Grandmaster levels. It took too long to get far in any one skill.
I have to agree with that one there, a mix between 3 (where you could have everything maxed out at level 20s) and H4 where you can't max everthing out. should be found, or maybe make skills less powerful but allow for more upgrades per level. this would make even more combinations that may work for you. and low level heroes could become usefull once again.
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guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted February 01, 2005 06:50 AM |
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Quote:
What are everybody arguing about? The magic system in HOMM IV was perfect, the systems in the rest of the games were bad. That's it.
Must revive H3...not perfect but close enough!
-guitarguy
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EvilLoynis
Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
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posted February 02, 2005 12:46 PM |
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I think in V that you should be able to research spells like in Legends of Magic. Also with that you should have to learn them in some sort of sequence. Like you can't learn Armaghedon without Inferno, or Inferno without Fireball, or Fireball without Magic Arrow. Also liked the Stat system in 3 better than 4.
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"I am both selfish and instictive. I value nature and the world around me as means to an end as well as an end in itself; at best I ... too long to display...
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted February 02, 2005 03:05 PM |
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Why I say the magic system in HOMM4 was restrictive was because - although I liked the idea of Alignments - it didn't work in practise.
Take a priest and give him death magic. You get a dark priest right?
Take a necromancer and give him life magic, same thing.
But use the base necro hero with your life troops and you get morale penalty. That didn't make sense to me.
It was fun for a while getting to know the ins and outs of all the advanced hero classes, but to me they should have made the class alignment specific, not the base hero.
Why am I blabbering about this crap? Because it was fundamentally tied to the magic system in HOMM4. A LOT of problems arose from that nice symmetrical thingy they had going.
It was different to H3, but not necessarily an improvement.
The only compromise I can see is to keep the aligned magics and also bring back the elemental schools.
Then Death magic would have it's Air spells, it's Fire spells etc. And these could be secondary skills, rather than occultism, demonology etc. So when you advance the Death Magic primary skill you get the necro/spell point/effectiveness bonus.
But you also get a greater choice of what spells you want to focus on.
Eg - the earth spell can be Raise Animate dead. An air spell could be Aging (like HOMM4 ghost ability), a fire spell can be Sacrifice, and a water spell could be Poison.
It would mean that there would be a LOT more spells in the game as you'd have to do this for every town, but it might work.
Or maybe the other way round. You learn Earth Magic, but then you may want to focus on using it for Nature, so you'd learn the Nature secondary skill - Druidism or something. Of course you can only take 3 schools, so you might want Druidism, Vulcanism (Chaos) and Agriculture (Life), leaving out Graverobbing (Death) and Masonry (Order).
Of couse by the time you've done that, some other bugger has GM offense and GM tactics, so you're screwed anyways 
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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