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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: What's the deal with Disguise?
Thread: What's the deal with Disguise? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
John_DiFool
John_DiFool

Tavern Dweller
posted January 11, 2005 06:03 AM

What's the deal with Disguise?

Hey gang, wandered over from Celestial Heavens, figured
you would know if any does, but: is Disguise completely
worthless?

I just tested it in a simple 1-1 map, Red vs. Blue.
I first did it as a 2-player game, and the Red hero in
question had Disguise, 1 Archangel, and 5000 Pikemen.
I ran it three times with Air Magic Basic, Advanced, then
Expert, and made a note of what Blue saw on his turn.
Blue saw exactly what he should have seen, according to
the spell description.

I then tried it against an AI hero, she with 20000 Naga Queens,
first with a real army of 20001 Archangels, then with
20000 Pikemen + 1 Archangel.  The AI ran away from the
real 20001 Archangel Army, but with Basic Disguise, which
should have shown the 20000 Pikemen as 20000 AA's, the
AI attacked and wiped out the 20000 Pikemen and their 1
AA leiutenant.  Visions was disabled by the way.

Now I know the AI "cheats", in that it can see things in
the shroud to a certain extent, so I am assuming that it
sees things as they really are, hence Disguise is
pointless against them.  But not having played competitive
multiplayer, I don't know if it is used in that milieu.

    John DiFool

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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted January 11, 2005 06:19 AM

Just a thought: why not test the spell with normal army numbers instead of such massive figures? Try give Player A a small force and Player B a little bigger force. Then have Player A cast "Disguise" and check what happens. The AI acts erratically sometimes when you set troop numbers in the ten or hundred-thousands. That aside, though, I don't think I've ever used the spell at all. Except maybe once.

-guitarguy

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mike_ay
mike_ay

Tavern Dweller
posted January 12, 2005 05:45 AM

I've only used the disguise once or twice.  On the occassion where you know an enemy has some good artifacts, and not many flying forces, you can lure them into your castle to attack.  What I don't understand is that it usually works well on the lower levels (basic air), but on the highest level, it shows the troops at the 7th level, so the computer usually won't attack at all (i guess that's the point of it).  

but yeah, spells like that are the last i'll use.  

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zsa
zsa


Famous Hero
posted January 12, 2005 06:04 AM

from what i remember in 1v1 multiplayer, the spell is useless for the blue player since the effect goes away at the end of the turn.

The spell can be used by the red player, but I really hate it. What were they thinking when they made it 1 turn? How will the blue player ever make good use of that? bah

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Conan
Conan


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted January 12, 2005 05:35 PM

it is usefull if you play against the computer and your hero is weak... you can cast it and the computer won't attack you.
____________
Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG

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Ste
Ste


Promising
Famous Hero
Passed away
posted January 12, 2005 06:49 PM

I'm not verys sure about this but anyway...
The AI's strategy and 'intelligence' depends on the game difficulty. The higher the difficulty the better the AI. AND at higher the AI has some advantages over the human players. One of them is the ability to see units even when you have disguise. There are other bonuses for AI but i read this in some of the H3 sites and i can't remember which one it was.
____________
The ultimate WoG tester

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Conan
Conan


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted January 12, 2005 07:03 PM

that is possible. I don't use it anymore, only used it when I started playing on Knight difficulty.

Interesting fact you bring up though
____________
Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG

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lord_crusader
lord_crusader


Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
posted January 12, 2005 10:44 PM

disguise is usefull only versus neutral monsters in the map...for example you can force to surrender lots of crusaders with only 30 trogs an disguisse... sometimes works sometimes not...
____________
Dig Out Your Soul

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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted January 13, 2005 04:28 AM

Quote:
disguise is usefull only versus neutral monsters in the map...for example you can force to surrender lots of crusaders with only 30 trogs an disguisse... sometimes works sometimes not...


Alright, I've got to try this one............
____________

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted January 14, 2005 06:44 PM
Edited By: Xarfax111 on 14 Jan 2005

Quote:
....., so the computer usually won't attack at all (i guess that's the point of it).  


Quote:
disguise is usefull only versus neutral monsters in the map...for example you can force to surrender lots of crusaders with only 30 trogs an disguisse... sometimes works sometimes not...


Both statements seem to be complete nonsense ...do uve any examples like saves or somthing that it did work that way? As far as i know the AI always knows the correct numbers, disguise or not....

Please make some saves as proof for me...

Xarfax1

____________

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IYY
IYY


Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
posted January 14, 2005 07:00 PM

I've seen things, I've seen them with my eyes.
I've seen things, I've seen them in disguise...

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lord_crusader
lord_crusader


Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
posted January 14, 2005 07:41 PM
Edited By: lord_crusader on 14 Jan 2005

Both statements seem to be complete nonsense ...do uve any examples like saves or somthing that it did work that way? As far as i know the AI always knows the correct numbers, disguise or not....

Please make some saves as proof for me...

Xarfax1



you totally right I was wrong... I tested some things and isn't work...

I thing the only use for this magic is to hide your real army... I mean the enemy can't know what monsters you have and how many monsters in each stack...
____________
Dig Out Your Soul

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mike_ay
mike_ay

Tavern Dweller
posted January 14, 2005 07:44 PM

Quote:
I've seen things, I've seen them with my eyes.
I've seen things, I've seen them in disguise...


lol - thank you dr seuss

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BlackkDeathhh
BlackkDeathhh


Hired Hero
posted December 31, 2006 02:01 AM

OK, forget AI. How does it work in multiplayer games?

I think we should have been allowed choose our own disguise.

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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted January 01, 2007 07:03 PM

Disguese spell in multiplayer works as following: spell duration ends with end of current turn of last player. So, Red player can cast spell against Blue, buċ Blue can't cast spell against Red.

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BlackkDeathhh
BlackkDeathhh


Hired Hero
posted January 02, 2007 04:08 AM
Edited by BlackkDeathhh at 04:09, 02 Jan 2007.

Quote:
Disguese spell in multiplayer works as following: spell duration ends with end of current turn of last player. So, Red player can cast spell against Blue, buċ Blue can't cast spell against Red.

I didn't mean that. There is no way the other guy would believe that you had Archangels in all your slots.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted January 02, 2007 03:39 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Disguese spell in multiplayer works as following: spell duration ends with end of current turn of last player. So, Red player can cast spell against Blue, buċ Blue can't cast spell against Red.

I didn't mean that. There is no way the other guy would believe that you had Archangels in all your slots.

True. But they main reason is, he doesn't know which units u have at all. If he sees 1 stack of 15 Archangels on your hero, he can only guess.....are they Champions....griffins...wyverns....pikemen...or really Archangels?
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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BlackkDeathhh
BlackkDeathhh


Hired Hero
posted January 02, 2007 07:18 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Disguese spell in multiplayer works as following: spell duration ends with end of current turn of last player. So, Red player can cast spell against Blue, buċ Blue can't cast spell against Red.

I didn't mean that. There is no way the other guy would believe that you had Archangels in all your slots.

True. But they main reason is, he doesn't know which units u have at all. If he sees 1 stack of 15 Archangels on your hero, he can only guess.....are they Champions....griffins...wyverns....pikemen...or really Archangels?

But since I had used that spell, he would have concluded that my army was wearker than his.

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Jkwo
Jkwo


Hired Hero
posted January 03, 2007 02:50 AM
Edited by Jkwo at 02:51, 03 Jan 2007.

Quote:
Quote:
....., so the computer usually won't attack at all (i guess that's the point of it).  


Quote:
disguise is usefull only versus neutral monsters in the map...for example you can force to surrender lots of crusaders with only 30 trogs an disguisse... sometimes works sometimes not...


Both statements seem to be complete nonsense ...do uve any examples like saves or somthing that it did work that way? As far as i know the AI always knows the correct numbers, disguise or not....

Please make some saves as proof for me...

Xarfax1


Oh no, it most definitely works on the AI heroes, at least it has for me. One example was playing Kilgor's campaign (from AB).. On the third stage, I had taken over 8 strongholds and so I couldn't afford to buy armies to defend all of them. An AI enemy with a pack of ABs, lots of thunderbirds, lots of wyverns, and a horde of ogre magi came to attack one of my strongholds with something like 3 behemoths in it. I had enough money to recruit 150 goblins or so, and the hero in the castle had expert air + disguise, so I hired them out, cast disguise, and suddenly it looks like I have 3 stacks of 51 ancients. I hit the next day button, and suddenly the AI hero turns 180 degrees and makes a run for it. This was on 160 percent I believe.

However, I don't think the neutral stack trick works. I tried a similar thing (trying to get a pack of behemoths to join with what appeared to be a horde of ancients), but they didn't even run away.. they just attacked my forces, which were actually weaker than they.
____________

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 13, 2017 06:38 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 18:46, 13 Sep 2017.

Sorry for reviving such an old thread.

I have been wondering about the Disguise spell, is it only for multiplayer or does it actually work against the AI on Expert and Impossible or against neutral creatures? And does the AI ever use this spell?
lord_crusader claimed (back in 2005) Disguise could make neutrals "more scared" and run away or join because of Disguise, but later he came back and claimed it did'nt work anyway so...
The reason I'm asking is because I never cast this spell, cause I'm assuming it does'nt work anyway and I don't think I have ever seen AI use it either and in that case there is no reason for it to be there at all.
Maybe it's only there for multiplayer and lower difficulties?

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