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| Thread: TOH Maps |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted August 23, 2001 10:42 AM |
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To haile
My language again, but u n me r on the same side I mean it was directed to players who seem discontent or displeased when certain other players plays the same map they like and become experts at it.
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 23, 2001 10:51 AM |
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to the cas... no, I won't say it :)
no offence taken!
there are some maps I play more often than others and I don't see something bad in it. I don't mind seeing this in my personal profile, cause everybody knows what (s)he can expect
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 23, 2001 06:39 PM |
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Castrated, nothing is wrong, if at least you succed to win...:)
Sure, I remember Castrated becoming "expert" during second season at crisscross 2. It is an allied map, but he used to overplay it day after day in single game, recruiting heroes in allied tavern to steal twice more ressources and have by this huge advantage.
When one player use to play ONLY one map, then, it shows without doubt lack of skills, cowardise and not desire to deepen all diferent details of the game each mapmaker can imagine.
There is no beeing expert at one map. Every time somebody finds a new trick to be undefeated at one map, be sure all people will know it. And, of course, copying the same, making it obsolete.
Most of ToH maps asks you an unique strategy who seems to be repeated everytime you play them. Maybe we should make more complex and imaginative maps, involving many strategies to succed, and by this , not beeing bothered anymore how times he/she plays them.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 23, 2001 08:49 PM |
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Yes- more
Salamadre has it right, more imaginative and open ending maps so more than one way to win, and by that I mean all the strategic locations aren't nearby so the first one to get his utopia can qithin the same week go take his opponents. Frankly I get tired of so many Utopias because they often turn the maps into race maps removing more strategy. The only way I currently enjoy most ToH maps is to make them 200% that changes a little bit the strategy needed to win, but essentially just slows the game down somewhat and makes the first 2 weeks different, after that is is the same.
Only a very, very few maps are of the imaginateive variety whereon I can never recall two games of which were the same strategies used, perhaps they are underplayed maps, but I know many have played them countless times. I guess ome people like the closed map race that is on so many ToH maps, and then there are people who will only play random maps. Why not some map in between? The problem with many ToH maps is there are only 1 or 2 access points to each others lands so these choke points and getting there first to take other sides resources become the races checkered flag. Unfortunately with the way the maps are desigend, many relics, resources or gold bonus locations etc- the medium maps are stuffed full of things to do in which if you plan your moves well you can take everything in almost 1 week. Maybe that speeds up the game, but it also makes it rather boring. There needs to be new ideas for the maps, not even always build one castle and make it your main base, I'd like to see maps where all 7ths are disabled, so you must choose a town by it's 1-6th levels.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted August 23, 2001 10:27 PM |
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need to play XL
these maps you speak of are possible but you need to make XL maps to achieve the openness and many different strategies. I too would like to see the big and many battle off in the distant regions of the map. But it is impossible to create all of this on a medium map. ALl that happens is that you do all the battles within 1 or 2 days run of the opponetns main castle and end up rushing or attacking late week 2 or early week 3. Like Salamandre said if people would deepen there horizens and try XL made maps and put the time into a good solid hard fought game, then those kinds of stuff could be put into a map. I would love to make a map with all the many diffenret routes to try
and strategies... but NOONE would be willing to play it.
If enough people would be willing to play an Advanced XL map with many differnt strategies and options let me know in the post. I might be inclined to make one 
But keep in mind you must be willing to play a map that last longer than week 3 and 4 hours LOL
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zsa
Famous Hero
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posted August 23, 2001 10:52 PM |
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Quote:
I guess ome people like the closed map race that is on so many ToH maps, and then there are people who will only play random maps. Why not some map in between?
Yes I agree with u that after u played a couple of times a map it becomes boring. This is why I like randoms , they are always different , u don't have to use the same strategy (or u can't because the map doesn't allow u too).
And the exploring is much more exciting;
Another thing that I like about randoms is town building. On a specific map that you've played before u know exactly what to build , in what order - on a random map it is different.
Ok there are some problems with random maps which I don't like ; e.g.: blocked in the castle by a very powerful troop , can't reach your opponent and (s)he can't reach u , can't find your wood or ore mine.
But those problems don't stop me from playing randoms , they are still the best for me. Also , in Heroes IV I hope the map generator will not be hampered by theese problems.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 24, 2001 03:16 AM |
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I don't think bigger is the map, more strategies are involved. In my opinion, adding boosted agressive computers could change every game, like in Fire war or Seven Lakes.
Another way would be to create a not symetric map, with lot of quest/artefacts, in order to choose between magic and might boosting options.Or a labyrinth map, like Ancient Greece, where you have wisely to choose where you go, and what you let undefended behind you. A map for "view air".
Another way would be to create restricted maps, removing attack spells, creating quests with one single artefact to change for one or other spell. So, you have to choose, regarding your main skills. Removing taverns and creating personalized jails etc. This can be done very well on large map, even on medium.But I agree, it's a lot of work, and, until a new map politic is accepted in ToH, we know none will even try them.That's why i suggested the "map of the week".
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Era II mods and utilities
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted August 24, 2001 03:22 AM |
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there will be a map of the week
for homm4 TOH that is. When the time comes for homm4 TOH though, I will need a few dedicated volunteers who can review submitted maps, and see if worthy for TOH posting, and rate them. There will also be a way for players to rate it as well, so that we get the administrator rating, and ToH players' rating.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 24, 2001 01:21 PM |
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Thanks god, for HoMM4 and not now...I had a bad dream where hourglass and desert war were top rated.
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Phantom1500
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 24, 2001 08:51 PM |
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I think Salamandre has a great idea for making a map with many different rewards for completion of quests. That way each player can design a specific strategy they would have to follow in terms of fighting. There is no way to truly make different strategies in heroes just based on the land map. There is always a linear strategy that is dominant, just sometimes it takes 1 or 2 games to see. A map like 7 lakes seems really complex and many optioned the first and second time you play it, but by the third you can see how truly linear that map is and how purely luck oriented much more than even desert war and battlemania, the most linear maps out there. Just face it, race maps show off who can develop a faster strategy to the checkered flag, while a map like seven lakes just has you sit there and see who gets the luckiest in the end(I am talking about 2 very skilled players playing). Cause in the end i can always just dig a moat around my island and good luck getting there unless you find the DD or Fly or Water Walk.
Perhaps the solution would be to make a map with many options to race for that are set in stone and very limited spell options that also have to be chosen early. Such as haste and slow being a key factor to race for and not being present in any guild. Or making border guards that require 3 level 7's to pass like in the campaign games that would make people think twice before going. I have read a lot of great ideas from people on this message board, perhaps someone can put them all togerther in the ultimate map.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted August 25, 2001 04:54 AM |
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I like the idea too
I am gonna start working on a prototype map, maybe we could make it a joint effort phantom. You have any map making experience? That might be the key making this tupe of map is to have a few people adding there ideas to the map, trade the map back and forth and add and change things. This would give the map 2 or 3 different veiwpoints..
In the mean time I gonna start maknig a map and see what I can come up with.
Jinxer
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted August 25, 2001 05:03 AM |
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I gonna make a map too :P
To those who dont know me, blah to you.
To those who do know me, Its not gonna be another Deceptions or whatever maps u seen of mine.
I haven't made a map for a long time now wonder if i still got the patience for it.
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted August 26, 2001 04:02 AM |
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oh no, who let mad out of the asylum to make new maps? 
actually few months ago i made a quest map, where to do anything in the map, u did a quest...but multiple options, I.E. u get bird of perception and have option of opening town, library or a teleport...stuff like that. altho my harddrive crashed and i lost that along with many of my maps.
but with busy schedule and lots of other stuff to do...wont be re creatin a map like that, lol. it might bring out a different side of heroes tho if one yall makes it. as for passin map back and forth, prolly not best idea
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 26, 2001 08:11 PM |
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Hmmm, this sound extremely interesting. A joint effort between Jinxer and Phantom Throw in CalJs in the equation and it becomes extremely interesting. U know I hate DoG but I still have to admit that its one of the most innovative maps Ive seen. If u can throw some of those ideas into making a map thats not so much about racing and getting expert intelligence week 1, but more about making choices, and be forced to choose one off many strategies. Well what can I say except Yummi
Jinxer U know I hold your BfP series in high regard, eventhough alot off people complain about the long playing time in them. Well I think they are great in the way they are constructed as closed maps, but still alot of scout warring going on. Still cant believe how u stole them boots from right under my nose
All in all loads of good ideas, and possible a new most played map for season 3.5
(Well I can always hope, cant I)
Defreni
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted August 26, 2001 11:48 PM |
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I wasn't let out.....
I escaped from the asylum . I really have lost my touch or patience for map making i started it then lost interest in about 25 min (25min jb normally makes a map whereas the only "known" map of mine DoG took about 5 hours to make and about 1 year to fix)
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kenpofourth
Hired Hero
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posted August 27, 2001 12:41 AM |
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Maps a matter of choice
After being in TOH for a season i've learned alot . especially the words spoken by JINXER about regularly played maps like desert war , hourglass and the criss-cross series. I suppose some play a certain map because they have developed a good strategy for it and others play a certain map for a feeling of comfort. Either way in the end it becomes a matter of personal choice. I think some have forgotten the steps Vesuvius and TOH has taken to try and ensure fairness and playability of the maps listed at TOH. No system is perfect , but lets give a little credit for a job well done by people that aren't even payed for their services. In the end what can you do ? try a map out for practice and see if you like it . other than that how can you honestly give a fair opinion of whether the map is good or not ? Even then as it is , it will still be a matter of opinion. ps. c ya in the zone Ken_Dragon1
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Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted January 07, 2002 01:12 PM |
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Just reading up on some older threads ...and I'm wondering..
It is nice to check which players has played which maps.
Let's say for instance they have played DW 100 times and BM 100 times. And he's score is 100 win 100 lost.
It would also be nice to know if he/she won all DW or BM (or a mix) of them!@
Just my two Eurocents
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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted January 08, 2002 11:46 AM |
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mmmmm, pretty good idea, but how easy is that to program in?
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- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26)
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Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted January 08, 2002 12:48 PM |
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Heck I don't know ... I'm just the one to notice and ask it (or nag about it .. if you want)!@
Perhaps Vesuvius or someone else can answer that!
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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted January 08, 2002 06:13 PM |
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ToH maps
plzzz
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