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Rage08
Famous Hero
Making it in the real world
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posted January 21, 2005 09:52 PM |
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Poll Question:
A True Alliance?
This is mostly directed at other Canadians and their opinions, but it's always good to hear everybodys outlook...
I'm sorry if this topic seems a bit delayed or if it has already been discussed before, but me and some others we're talking about this earlier today...
In my opinion, there are situations where, to help a friend, or I guess an ally in this instance, you may have to do things you may not agree with or really want to do. But for the sake of staying together or staying united you have to help a fellow friend...
I'm talking about a while back when the United States first went to war on Iraq and the Canadians didn't agree to help. In my opinion, we should have helped our allies. I know, I know... some people don't agree with war, some people don't find it justified, blah blah blah... heard it all before...
So maybe I'll get even more simple... don't you believe that sometimes you may have to do things that you feel you may regret or don't agree with for the value of friendship? The United States are our close friends... and we may have our differences/problems/disputes, but all in all we should be behind each other when it comes right down to it.
A major point that I brought up earlier in our little arguement was that... now that we haven't helped our allies when they needed, what about when we need them... how are they going to react. In life I find we each give a little to gain a little bit and with that you can carry on...
So the question is, should Canada have helped the US in the war when they needed it?
I just want to know what most people think about it...
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Khayman
Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
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posted January 21, 2005 11:45 PM |
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I voted YES...even thought we all know that the horses on which the Canadian military ride could never handle the desert heat. 
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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Shenjairo
Known Hero
Simsalabim
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posted January 22, 2005 12:12 AM |
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No, I don't think at all that Canada should have helped. You can't always do what your friend wants just to stay friends, many bad things could come from that. If the issue repeats itself many times maybe you shouldn't even be friends. I will help with any reasonable request, but if it's something that goes against my beliefs I will say no every time.
If I need help with something and I know my friend has issues with that sort of thing I won't even ask. I will try to ask someone else instead since hopefully you have another friend that may be able to help, or if I don't I will try to do it alone even if my chances will be slim. I won't give my friend feelings of guilt for not being there when I asked for help or force him to do something which will make him unhappy.
Things I will help with if someone asks:
Help them move out, and clean the apartment.
Take notes on a lecture if they can't be there.
Take care of their dog if they have to be gone for a few days.
Repair their bike, if I'm able. Bad with gears.
Loan them money, free of interest.
Things I won't help with
Demonstrate against something that I don't think is wrong. (You don't want McDonald's to open up here? Fine, just don't try to get me along. While I don't like the taste it's a free world and if someone wants to open up a shop go ahead)
Help someone to avenge something with the use of violence. (If it's serious enough, go to the police. If it's something minor, get over it)
Keep your stolen goods for a while (If you can't do the time, don't do the crime)
Invade someone because they may have nuclears (Let the UN handle it, even if you find them inefficient. It's really not your call)
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted January 22, 2005 12:52 AM |
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Being friends with someone also means being able to tell them when they are wrong, so no.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted January 22, 2005 01:25 AM |
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Sorry to go against your opinion Rage, but...
Quote:
to help a friend, or I guess an ally in this instance, you may have to do things you may not agree with or really want to do.
You never have to do something that you don't want to and you shouldn't ever do things that you don't agree with! I'd have the same opinion as you about doing something you don't want to, if you were talking about something trivial like exercising. Yes, you should exercise if even if you don't "feel" like it. But when it comes to violence that you don't agree with, then you should never take part in it...for whatever reason. In my opinion, you should actually work towards preventing the violence altogether!
Quote:
don't you believe that sometimes you may have to do things that you feel you may regret or don't agree with for the value of friendship?
If you have any self-respect and a shred of morality, then you should never consciously do something that you know that you will regret...even for friendship. In addition, a "real friend" would never scorn you for not helping them do something that you don't want to or that you don't agree with. (Example: Would you help your friend beat up a disabled child just because the kid spit on him? I sure as hell hope not!)
And how can you avoid doing things that you will regret, simple...do things that are "Just", not "Justified". Many horrendous events and circumstances have resulted from people making "justified" decisions or acting with a "justified" purpose.
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The United States are our close friends... and we may have our differences/problems/disputes, but all in all we should be behind each other when it comes right down to it.
I totally disagree with this when it comes to the war in Iraq. The reason is simple and doesn't even involve Political or Financial "motivations": When most American citizens don't even stand behind the decision to invade Iraq, then why should I or even the rest of the world stand by it?! I'm not saying that the majority is always correct about everything, but when most of the people (who you would expect to stand behind this decision) are against it, then that is a message that should not be ignored!
Quote:
now that we haven't helped our allies when they needed, what about when we need them... how are they going to react. In life I find we each give a little to gain a little bit
The American military did not "need" any help to achieve its goals in Iraq. Sure, some more military assistance might have diminished the amount of American casualties, but it was not "needed".
The only help that was actually "needed" (that many Governments around the world withheld) was political support for the Bush Administration's decision to invade Iraq. If no other countries had decided to help in the invasion of Iraq, then the United States would have been acting aggressively against another member of the UN and would have activated all other militaries against them. According the UN's Security Council mandate, the American military would have been driven out of Iraq, the same way that Iraqi Forces were driven out of Kuwait back in the early 90s.
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted January 24, 2005 04:21 PM |
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I voted no
I agree with Leo, nice post mate 
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Rage08
Famous Hero
Making it in the real world
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posted January 24, 2005 05:43 PM |
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Thanks for your opinions guys... I gave those posts some thought and I realized what you guys are saying is true...
Shenjairo showed some things that he would and wouldn't do for a friend and I believe that that's just it... Some things you should do to help someone and some things (things that go against your beliefs) you shouldn't... sorry to contradict myself (and I hate contradiction), but you helped me to look at this situation from a different aspect and realize something I should have remembered all along... you shouldn't do something that you think you'll regret or you don't agree with even if a friend or ally depends on it...
Nice posts guys... I'm glad I saved my vote...
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 24, 2005 08:48 PM |
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Please don't forget that there are Canadian troops in
Afghanistan, and have been from the start. Its wrong to
say that Canada is not involved in this war on terror.
Iraq was a totally other issue. All the sympathy the
Americans had after 911 went out the window with the
invasion of Iraq. Events today have born out what a
poor decision and how badly planned the invasion was.
Lets not forget historically how the US didn't join
WWI until 1917 or WWII until 1941. They turned the tide
when they fought, but had to wait until it was politically correct to do so.
Finally, the use of the title " The leader of the free
world" in regards to Bush is greatly offensive to many,
specially since it reeks of arrogance and has an aura
of ignorance about it. In the end, nobody leads the free
world by coercing them, then it is no longer free. So
all the rhetoric of Bush and all the Bushlings lack the
moral authority that they claim to have.
What I'm trying to say is you do not decide unilaterally
for everyone what to do, and then claim they are free.
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