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| Thread: Random Template Flaws | |
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lkru33
Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
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posted May 03, 2005 08:11 PM |
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Random Template Flaws
Has anyone else ever seen a random map that was created by one of the popular rmg's (jebus, blockbuster, balance, panic, etc...) that ended up with a major flaw in the map?
For example: I have played in a 2 vs 2 on a jebus template where the 2 player zones were somehow connected without having to go through the treasure zone (and no the map didn't have an under)
Another example: Just recently I played a 1 vs 1 on the blockbuster template and after week 3, my opponent tells me the map is broken. When I asked how? He said he didn't have a 2 way monolith leading out to a treasure zone. I can't speak for this template because I've only played it a few times... so I allowed him a restart. He offered a downloadable program that is supposed to check random maps and that is how he knew it was broken. I didn't want to download the program or go through the hassle, so restarting seemed the easiest way.
Do any of you random players ever see map flaws from these templates? Not minor flaws like misplaced guards... but major flaws like 2 zones connecting when they shouldn't or not connecting when they should?
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted May 03, 2005 08:51 PM |
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I think jebus temp itself is a major flaw.. 
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 03, 2005 09:41 PM |
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Jebus sometimes is broken. You can enter opponents (or neutral) area without going through treasure are and then u have 6 towns. Had that a few times...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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lkru33
Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
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posted May 04, 2005 02:29 PM |
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Quote:
Jebus sometimes is broken. You can enter opponents (or neutral) area without going through treasure are and then u have 6 towns. Had that a few times...
I have seen that a few times myself. Have you seen the example mentioned about Blockbuster? Is this even a flaw? I took the guy's word for it that it was.
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted May 04, 2005 03:11 PM |
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Quote:
I have seen that a few times myself. Have you seen the example mentioned about Blockbuster? Is this even a flaw? I took the guy's word for it that it was.
As far as i know BB doesn't have many monolyths(never seen one).There are some descriptions of this template in ToH forum and i also made one in the map heaven guild forum and also on the WW discussion board.
I won't go that far as to judge someone, but i'd say you should load the last autosave in singleplayer, then reveal the map just to be sure your opponent is honourable.Maybe he just missed the entry and he got nevous seing your stats rising.
Lol Lee people are scared by you now on the zone!
n00b power baby!!!
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 04, 2005 03:36 PM |
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The story about BB template canīt be a flaw.
You know why?
There is no secure way to set monoliths in random templates, especially when having not much areas. In that case, the comp will always try to find a solution to create a direct connection between zones instead of 2way monoliths.
I think your opponent played that template sometimes and found a 2way in treasure area and thought that has to be like this all the time...but NO.
Or he took a look in the map through the editor during your turn and wasnīt satisfied what he saw...
Just a guess though....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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lkru33
Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
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posted May 04, 2005 03:36 PM |
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Edited By: lkru33 on 4 May 2005
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@ Tigris: No it is not at all like that
My opponent was someone I played fun games with when I first started on the zone. He is very fair and very easy going. Actually he is the person that talked me into joining a tribe. I know that is not what he was thinking because he just enjoys playing the game win or lose. If I look at the save in single player mode, it will ruin the game. At that point, no matter what, a restart would have to happen. 
@ Angelito: I would think that my opponent just didn't know that everyone doesn't necessarily have to have a 2 way monolith. I did not know this either until now. I am not familiar with a lot of templates yet, so I am not always sure what is supposed to be there or not. This helps though.
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grendal
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 04, 2005 08:35 PM |
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As with most random templates, blockbuster does have its occasional flaws when created.
Sometimes one person gets 4 towns and the other person only gets 2. Sometimes the only connection to opponent is through the treasure zone via a road. (in either of these 2 scenerios you should restart) Monoliths definately do happen in blockuster. Its still a good map just seems to be less resources on it. The monolith acts as a road to your opponent. Also monoliths occur in your treasure zone. In these maps there is no connection between each opponents treasure land other than the monoliths with very big blocks. Its a little different and makes it easy to get in and steal your opponents treasure which can prove interesting because you could meet your opponent without warning once going through
If your second area is demonic terrain then getting in there first week and exploring is a must normally. This terrain is usually large and has dead ends in it. Exploring it first week is key cause if u dont, the area is so frustrating you wont be able to finish in there til the end of week 3 (that would almost insure a loss against a good player) On the other hand if it is a huge area then u can count on your third area being very small. So small you can clear it in 2 days sometimes
Also a player must determine the richness of the map early on. Some maps (very rare but it happens) are so resource deficient that its impossible to get level 7s built week 2. One time i played castle and cleaned out first and second areas completely and still didnt come close to being able to get angels week 2.
Its my favourite template and i think its the best
Another good one but not played much is frozen cliffs. Most fights for good arties, and getting to your opponent are through dragons of all types. Makes for a much more interesting game cause mass slow is not an option in these fights (unless you have black orb )
Thats a nice thread you created Rychenroller for the template descriptions. Well done
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Life is full of frustrations, heroes should help release it!
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midnight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 16, 2005 02:14 PM |
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there are definite bugs with the random generator. Here are 3 I know about:
Rare zone split
Some are impossible to fix, like whole chunks of a zone being displaced onto another part of the map.
Matching terrain gaps
The other nasty one I notice is if the terrain is the same type, there is sometimes a gap in the mountains between then. Never seems to happen if the terrain is different. I wanted to make a temp with 100% grass once but had so many bugs was impossible.
Mine holes
Finally if a mine is near a block, the block might be completely missing, not just displaced.
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted June 16, 2005 08:24 PM |
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another flaw in some templates is caused by the relativeness of the zone sizes.Because the size isn't related to the actual map size but compared with the size of some other zone.So sometimes you end up with a small starting area and with tough guards to the next zone(best exemple for this is the BB template).
also when a mine happens to be too close to the area border zone the maps just messes up and some new connection appear.I saw that first on Angelito's template and then on true random.
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted June 16, 2005 09:23 PM |
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One thing i have always wondered about the random map generator is what actually controls how it works.
I understand that the rmg.txt file contains all the values that determine what you will find on a map, but there has to be something else within the Homm3 programme that determines the perameters of what you actually put into a txt file to make it all work.
Why i ask is because it strikes me that the random map generator could have been constructed better so that you have more control over what is or isnt on a map.
Would it be great if certain zones could be assigned as underground, and i am sure there are lots of things that template makers would like to have control over.
I suppose what i am really asking is that if some programmer had a mind to explore this in the way the WoG team and Equilibris team have done their thing, could there be a much better random map generator?
Does anybody know what affects the way the rmg.txt works?
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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midnight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 17, 2005 04:52 AM |
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Quote:
another flaw in some templates is caused by the relativeness of the zone sizes.
Yep, especially if you include underground. This is why I put gold mines in a lot of my templates. If you have a small start zone, the mines will be closer and easier to take. If you have a big start zone you will have plenty of loose resources, but the mines will be further away. This helps to balance that problem. If the template is poor anyway, it is less of a problem and maybe only need 1 or 2 gold mines.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted June 17, 2005 04:53 PM |
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Quote:
Has anyone else ever seen a random map that was created by one of the popular rmg's (jebus, blockbuster, balance, panic, etc...) that ended up with a major flaw in the map?
I 've played very few times with most templates and for the time being I 've encountered the same problem both on Jebus and Blockbuster:
One didn't have to go through the treasure area to meet his / her opponent, but immediately, a situation like the one you described on Jebus.
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