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| Thread: U.S. Taxpayers: Funding the War Machine Abroad & Charity Auctions At Home | |
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Khayman
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posted May 10, 2005 09:04 PM |
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U.S. Taxpayers: Funding the War Machine Abroad & Charity Auctions At Home
You know, as a U.S. taxpayer, I understand that my federal taxes will be distributed by the government as they see fit. However, sometimes when you hear exactly where your tax money is being spent, you wonder how long your country can burder themselves with such nonsensical expenditures.
As if spending billions of unnecessary dollars on the War in Iraq hasn't demonstrated the poor judgment our leadership, then I would have to say the idea of paying the hospital expenses of illegal aliens is just as ludicrous.
U.S. pays for care of illegal aliens
Treatment money for border states
By ROBERT PEAR
THE NEW YORK TIMES
WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration said yesterday that it would start paying hospitals and doctors for providing emergency care to illegal immigrants.
The money, totaling $1 billion, will be available for services provided from today through September 2008. Congress provided the money as part of the 2003 law that expanded Medicare to cover prescription drugs, but the new payments have nothing to do with the Medicare program.
Members of Congress from border states had sought the money. They said treatment of illegal immigrants imposed a huge financial burden on many hospitals, which are required to provide emergency care to patients who need it, regardless of their immigration status or ability to pay.
Under the new program, hospitals are supposed to ask patients for documents to substantiate payment claims. But Dr. Mark McClellan, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, said a hospital should not directly ask a patient "if he or she is an undocumented alien."
Instead, he said, hospitals can try to establish a patient's status by analyzing the answers to "indirect questions": Is the person eligible for Medicaid? (If so, payment is generally not available under the new program.) Has the person reported a foreign place of birth? Does the person have a border-crossing card like those issued to Mexican citizens? Does the person have a foreign passport, a foreign driver's license or a foreign identification card?
The Bush administration abandoned a proposal that would have required many hospitals to ask patients if they were U.S. citizens or legal immigrants.
"In no circumstances are hospitals required to ask people about their citizenship status," McClellan said yesterday.
Hospital executives and immigrant rights groups had said such questions would deter illegal immigrants from seeking care and could lead to serious public health problems by increasing the spread of communicable diseases.
Cecilia Munoz, a vice president of the National Council of La Raza, a Latino civil rights group, said the new requirements were an improvement over the original proposal but would still discourage some immigrants from seeking treatment.
"Hospitals will have to ask confusing, highly technical questions about immigration documents," Munoz said. "That will create a perception in the Latino community that you have to show your papers in order to get emergency care. That's a misperception, but it may be enough to deter some people from seeking care."
The new program is run by the Department of Health and Human Services. McClellan said the department would not provide information about illegal immigrants to law enforcement officials for use in "routine civil immigration proceedings." But in rare cases, he said, the information may be used in criminal investigations.
The largest allocations this fiscal year are going to California, which will receive $70.8 million; Texas, $46 million; Arizona, $45 million; New York, $12.3 million; Illinois, $10.3 million; Florida, $8.7 million; and New Mexico, $5.1 million.
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Ok. Let me make sure I get this straight. An individual who is residing illegaly in the United States gets injured and is taken to a local hospital, where he or she receives funded emergency medical care. Then instead of the illegal alien being presented with the total bill for healthcare or, dare I say, deportation papers upon completion of treatment, as a U.S. taxpayer I am stuck footing the bill? Call me crazy, but something just doesn't seem right here.
Now, the only additional question I have in regards to this is, "Who is to blame for this?"
Is is the fault of U.S. capitalists whose businesses offer jobs to illegal aliens to reduce their production costs? Is is the federal government's fault for not maintaining a secure border to prevent individuals from entering the U.S. illegally? Is it my own fault for not being a sensitive, loving individual who should want to support the needs of the less fortunate?
Mark my words...Unjustified federal expenditures such as this, and the money-vaccuum known as the War on Terror, are going to be the demise of the United States.
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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terje_the_ma...
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Disciple of Herodotus
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posted May 10, 2005 09:18 PM |
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Yeah, damn those illegal aliens! Let them all die, if they get sick!
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Khayman
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posted May 10, 2005 09:27 PM |
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Terje wrote:Quote:
Yeah, damn those illegal aliens! Let them all die, if they get sick!
Perhaps that may be one solution...
But seriously, why not provide the emergency care, then bill the individual? If the individual cannot pay, then bill the individual's country of citizenship.
Both death and taxes need not prevail here, just equality and common sense. 
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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draco
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posted May 10, 2005 09:48 PM |
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I think its more a matter of regular Americans should be protected better then non-americans shouldnt be protected at all.
if all Americans had free helth care this wouldnt be a issue would it?
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terje_the_ma...
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Disciple of Herodotus
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posted May 10, 2005 09:56 PM |
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Universal health care all the way, baby. 
But if you were to introduce that, you'd need to pump up your tax levels to some 30%, and I guess that'd be too much of a shock to you.
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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draco
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Famous Hero
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posted May 10, 2005 11:16 PM |
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I don`t know, we got health care here in Canada, and my tax rate is only at 27% 
hmm... come to think of it, I pay to much taxes time to quit my job and get some of that money back from welfare.
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Consis
Honorable
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Of Ruby
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posted May 11, 2005 01:05 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 10 May 2005
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Pfeh...
Khayman you watch too much Lou Dobbs methinks. It's very easy to worry over such things. I ought to know being from Texas. The real probelm is in Arizona. If you want to be proactive then go there and participate in the newly formed civilian border patrol. I believe they call themselves the "Minutemen"; which of course aren't even closely resembling the true minutemen of the revolution. If anyone is going to do something about the border security, it will be Gov. Arnold Swarzenegger. I imagine that if he and Bill Richardson came together then they could have some enginuitive proposals for the border and illegal alien inadequacies.
In the future, watch less Lou and more Aaron Brown  ....that is if you watch CNN at all.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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SillyWabbit
Disgraceful
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posted May 11, 2005 09:48 AM |
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No they are not making the tasxpayers pay for this they are taking money from Tracy Brown! No! I won't let them give money to U.S. soldiers that sat there and humilitaed this guy! I won't let them do this snow goddmanit!!@
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Svarog
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statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 12, 2005 01:03 AM |
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Quote:
But seriously, why not provide the emergency care, then bill the individual? If the individual cannot pay, then bill the individual's country of citizenship.
You cant bill the country, because its unlikely a poor country would sign such an agreement.
Also, 1 billion in a period of 3 years is no burden at all for the budget. There are thousands of more ridicilous allocations that you should care about.
Since we're still on illegal immigrants, I have a modest suggestion. Errect a 10 meter wall to keep off hordes of immigrants along the entire American-Mexican border. Stregthen it with electric fence, just to make sure the Kingdom of God stays protected from Hispanics. Labour costs shouldnt be too big, as you can pay these immigrants to do it cheap and cost-effective.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted May 12, 2005 11:19 AM |
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You know in the Phillipines, if they find a boat of illegal immigrants coming in, they will kill everyone on board and burn the boat.
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John says to live above hell.
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Khayman
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posted May 12, 2005 03:09 PM |
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The Irony of It All
Quote:
Quote:
But seriously, why not provide the emergency care, then bill the individual? If the individual cannot pay, then bill the individual's country of citizenship.
You cant bill the country, because its unlikely a poor country would sign such an agreement.
Hi Svarog! You are correct. It is highly unlikely that a poor country would sign such an agreement. However, when the United States appropriates foreign aid monies for that same poor country the following year, the emergency care expenditures for illegal immigrants from that particular country could be deducted. Plus, as an added bonus, the United States would actually pay the transportation fees so that their citizens could return safely to his or her legal country of residence.Quote:
Also, 1 billion in a period of 3 years is no burden at all for the budget. There are thousands of more ridicilous allocations that you should care about.
Yet again, I must agree, but only in part. That billion dollars could be used for education, welfare relief, of dare I say, special interests group funding for United States citizens who are...are you ready for this...legal residents of the United States. I do not mind my tax dollars being used to fund the federal prison system, but I do mind when my tax dollars are distributed to indivduals who have broken the law by entering the country illegally and still unlawfully residing in the United States.Quote:
Errect a 10 meter wall to keep off hordes of immigrants along the entire American-Mexican border. Stregthen it with electric fence, just to make sure the Kingdom of God stays protected from Hispanics. Labour costs shouldnt be too big, as you can pay these immigrants to do it cheap and cost-effective.
Great idea! But seriously, Svarog, you hit the nail right on the head here. As I asked in this topic's original post, is it possible that the U.S. is creating its own problems? For example, if U.S. businesses were not willing to hire illegal immigrants in hopes of lowering their labor costs, then illegal immigrants would have less incentive to cross the borders illegally. I understand that everyone desires to provide a better life for themselves or thier families. So although the illegal immigrants are breaking the law in their quests for a better life, personally I do not blame them as much as I would blame U.S. companies for providing them the incentive to do it.
Here is the ultimate irony of your example...Those immigrants would probably build a better wall than U.S. citizen labor! At least the immigrant workers would show up on time, actually work hard, and complain much less about the working conditions.
EDIT: I just could not complain without offering some type of solution. Here you go...
Possible solution: Perhaps the U.S. hospitals, upon completion of treatment for the illegal immigrants, could be so bold as to notify the federal government so that a representative could begin the process of legally registering them as citizens. Notice that I am becoming softer as I grow older, because I did not suggest that the illegal immigrants be deported upon notification. The Love, Peace, and Happiness slogan may finally be making an impact on my outlook on life.
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted May 12, 2005 05:06 PM |
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If you Yanks had bothered to make proper labour and social legislation to prevent what we at least in Norway refer to as "social dumping", you wouldn't have this kind of trouble.
As for Svarog's suggestion
Quote:
Errect a 10 meter wall to keep off hordes of immigrants along the entire American-Mexican border. Stregthen it with electric fence, just to make sure the Kingdom of God stays protected from Hispanics.
I believe you could send your Secretary of the Interior (or whatever) to Spain, so that she could study the neato constructions that has earned Europe its name "Festung Europa". Maybe she'd get some ideas, eh?
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Khayman
Promising
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Underachiever
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posted May 12, 2005 05:27 PM |
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Who the heck is Aaron Brown? Is he an Alan Colmes clone? You know I only watch Fox!
Consis wrote:Quote:
Khayman you watch too much Lou Dobbs methinks. It's very easy to worry over such things. I ought to know being from Texas. The real probelm is in Arizona. If you want to be proactive then go there and participate in the newly formed civilian border patrol. I believe they call themselves the "Minutemen"; which of course aren't even closely resembling the true minutemen of the revolution. If anyone is going to do something about the border security, it will be Gov. Arnold Swarzenegger. I imagine that if he and Bill Richardson came together then they could have some enginuitive proposals for the border and illegal alien inadequacies.
In the future, watch less Lou and more Aaron Brown ....that is if you watch CNN at all.
Lou Dobbs is the MoneyLine dude, right? (See, I do watch CNN every blue moon.) However, I must admit I have never heard of Aaron Brown.
I think I would enjoy a two-week stint as a 'Minuteman' on border patrol. I could get in touch with nature, fire a few well-placed warning shots, maybe even intercept some U.S. bound drug shipment. Then afterwards, I could treat myself to a nice vacation in Cabo San Lucas!
I honestly believe that the only reason Bush signed the emergency care funding bill was a direct result of request (and pressure) from powerful Republicans such the Governator. Otherwise, I think he would scoff at the idea and suggest the funds be set aside for national security. I think Arnold understands the huge burden that illegal immigrant healthcare costs place on California's hospital; therefore, he needs to alleviate some of the prressure through federal funds since his state cannot afford to subsidize it alone.
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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