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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Heroes 4 Beta!!!!!!
Thread: Heroes 4 Beta!!!!!! [ This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 (3) 4 5 6 7 ]
Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted August 20, 2001 10:28 AM

Couldn't agree you more Cheesus...

I was going to say something like that when I suggested that he should translate it first I wanted to see does he do it really before giving my two cents.

Now that he has done this tremendous job if his post(s) doesn't get quality point you can take all mine and give it to him.

Of course someone else could have done the same but Wyvern is the first and I think he gave lot (new) information about the game.

Thank you, Wyvern.
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Wyvern
Wyvern


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 20, 2001 11:30 AM bonus applied.

Towns, Buildings and Units

I almost finished my work. Now I'll translate the biggest (and maybe most interesting) chapter... and next time I may say something about the screenshots (sorry you can't see them).
TOWNS, BUILDINGS AND UNITS
You know that you can build both level 1 buildings but for level 2, 3 and 4 you have to choose one of the two creature dwellings. The author takes for example the Academy town:
"... You build Mage Tower (for the Magi) or Golem Factory (for Gold Golems), then Altar of Wishes (for Genies) or Golden Pavilion (for Nagas) and in the end Cloud Castle. But in exchange to the Titans you have to do without the Dragon Golems - perfect killers with a specialty First Strike and they even eliminate the same specilty from other units..."
Yeah, those Dragon Golems are really strong. Imagine that your hero has a First Strike ability... it won't work against the Dragon Golem. Here is what happens when you attack a group of Dragon Golems: they attack fisrt and if they kill you, they don't lose anything! If they don't kill you, you won't retaliate with full strength but with the forces that remained after the Dragon Golem's attack! So what will you choose  - Dragon Golems or Titans?
In the town there is NO Capitol and there aren't defending walls (maybe in the full version?). On the map there are strange crystals which are inactive in the beta/demo but they have interesting names - Emerald of Speed, Rubi of Defense, Sapphire of Health, etc. Maybe artifacts?
The Water Wheel and the Windmill work more comfortably - once visited by you they give you resources authomatically in the beginning of each week.
Only the Academy and Stringhold towns are like those in HoMM3. The others are mixed - Preserve is a mix of Conflux and Rampart, in Asylum (the town of Black Dragons and Hydras) there are creatures from Inferno, Dungeon and Fortress (for example, Wyvern? Please!), and some of the creatures from Inferno have moved to Necropolis (as I said - the Imps, the Cerberi and the Archdevils).
Now something very interesting - the new creature population doesn't come in the beginning of the new week. The 1 level units are born every day! in different quantities and the next levels - at an interval of one, two and three days. However, the 4 level units are always two per week.
The magical creatures have their own spellbooks from which you can choose what spell to cast. But some day the spell points of your creatures will end... But there are potions restorating spell points. About the potions - you can find them on the adventure map or in Blacksmiths on the adventure map (the author doesn't mention if there are Blacksmiths in the towns!). In the Blacksmiths you can buy artifacts as well. There are also two screenshots on the Potion topic - the first shows a spellbook in which there is a page Items and in this page there are 5 potions - of Healing, of Health, of Mirth, of Quickness and of Strength. The second screenshot shows a Blacksmith - it is called Alchemist's Shop and it's screen looks exactly like the shops in Might and Magic 7&8 inside. There are potions, a spear, an armor and a speculum. Something very interesting about this screenshot is that in it your hero is dead. He is shown as a yellow face with closed eyes which says "Zzz". Maybe the player has come to the Blacksmith to resurrect him...
I continue with the article. Only in Stronghold there is no Mage Guild but the units are powerful and the Barbarian heroes tart with 3 skills (the other classes start with 2). I the other towns there are Mage Guilds but you can learn spells only from two types of Magic - for example, Death and Chaos.
I said that the Cyclope is a shooter and does mass damage - hits units in several squares. There is information about some other creatures:
The strongest unit in the game (so far) is the Black Dragon. It was the same in HoMM2. The Black Dragon has 1100 Hit Points and 140-300 Damage! But don't faint, in Heroes 4 the numbers are much bigger than in the previous games. The Behemoths have 750 HP and 180-275 Damage, the Titans - 610 HP and 100-150 Damage, the Bone Dragons - 550 HP and 100-150 Damage, the Dragon Golems - 730 HP and 120-180 Damage, the Archangels and Archdevils have 575 HP, etc.
Another idea stolen from Age of Wonders - if your party is composed of only flying creatures they can go through water (sounds logically). But in the beta/demo, if your hand ends on water, the flyers just stay on it (this doesn't sound so logically but maybe in the final version the things will change).
The last thing from this chapter - the Berserkers! The author says that they are from Preserve but I think he's made a mistake. When there is a battle, you can't control the Berserkers - they always attack the nearest enemy! Grandmaster Suicide, I think! Anyway, they are 1 level unit so you won't miss them so much - you can recruit them every day.
I did it! That was all, folks! I translated 6 pages and the only thing that I can do is comment the screenshots. Maybe next time.

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Incubus
Incubus


Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
posted August 20, 2001 12:20 PM

Hmm beserkers.

Aren't beserkers Normal Vikings that can Become a giant Grunt when angry??? Their skin turns Green and giant horns grow on their heads.. they turn into a troll like creature..
Something like the Incredicle hulk thingy.. Why do they Selfdestruct? They must grow in size and strenght that should be the special of the beserkers!
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_Seiken_
_Seiken_


Hired Hero
Dragon Slayer
posted August 20, 2001 12:52 PM

Hmmmm

Creatures every day? And they need no more a hero to wander through the map? This is what I see: A map full of level1 worthless units only to see from where is coming the enemy. And Blacks have now double hit points than Archangels!! I think that's a bit unbalanced.
I still think dragon golems suck. There shouldn't be mechanical units in a fantasy game. What will be next, Champions over ZXRs 750 instead of horses?

Maybe 3D0 introduced too much changes at the same time. I'm beginning to wonder if Homm4 will be as good as Homm3...

Good work again Wyvern!


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There can only be one...

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Wyvern
Wyvern


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 20, 2001 12:53 PM

Don't worry, Grandmaster Suicide was just a joke! But the Berserkers always attack the nearest enemy unit - even if it's 100 times stronger. Isn't this a suicide?

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Incubus
Incubus


Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
posted August 20, 2001 12:57 PM

Hmmm

Same effect the wendigo has? They will follow the ones that looked into their eyes.. till one of the two(wendigo or vicitm that looked into the wendigo's eyes) is killed.
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Syllogism
Syllogism


Adventuring Hero
Gazebo Slayer
posted August 20, 2001 01:04 PM

I don't see why Dragon Golems wouldn't fit in. After all, many great fantasy books such as Dragonlances have machines.  
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_Seiken_
_Seiken_


Hired Hero
Dragon Slayer
posted August 20, 2001 01:16 PM

Machines

Quote:
I don't see why Dragon Golems wouldn't fit in. After all, many great fantasy books such as Dragonlances have machines.  


Ok, machines such as ballistas and catapults, not those cybernetic dragons firing laser weapons controlled by parallel processors. That don't fit. Besides, the idea of mechanical units has already been discused ( Forge Town )
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pluvious
pluvious


Promising
Adventuring Hero
posted August 20, 2001 01:18 PM

Thanks Wyvern!  Good job.  

And there won't be bunches of level 1 units running around cause I believe you can only have a limited number of stacks on the map (8 or something) even without a hero with them.  

Everytime I see more information on the game it sounds more interesting...just got to see it to see how it all goes together.  


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...Pluvious...
-The Storm Before the Calm-

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Syllogism
Syllogism


Adventuring Hero
Gazebo Slayer
posted August 20, 2001 01:19 PM
Edited By: Syllogism on 20 Aug 2001

I'm not talking about war machines, but steam engines and such made by Gnomes.

Remember, a golem is given life through a magical formula. These dragon golems are more magical beings than mechanical.
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Incubus
Incubus


Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
posted August 20, 2001 01:26 PM

The mechanic dragon is very smalle!

Look at the HUMAN/DWARF that is in it.. it almost look like that the mechanic dragon is very small.
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niteshade
niteshade


Known Hero
posted August 20, 2001 01:32 PM

"Ok, machines such as ballistas and catapults, not those cybernetic dragons firing laser weapons controlled by parallel processors. That don't fit. Besides, the idea of mechanical units has already been discused ( Forge Town ) "

Do you have any idea what your talking about? These are not cubernetic dragons firing lasers. These are just golems that attack with their bite. They fit perfectly.

By the way Incubus, berserkers never have turned into giants in any kind of myth. I don't know where you got that from. They are norse human warriors who went into a killing rage in battle and attacked without any fear or thought.

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_Seiken_
_Seiken_


Hired Hero
Dragon Slayer
posted August 20, 2001 01:55 PM

niteshade

I know they don't fire lasers, what I mean is that a robotic dragon as the golems is too powerful to be in the game, if 3DO gives them realistic stats, coz a machine will be always much more resistent than real creatures, and of course steam engines aren't like robots. I thought I was quite clear about which machines I was talking about when I said they shouldn't be in the game
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niteshade
niteshade


Known Hero
posted August 20, 2001 04:27 PM

"I know they don't fire lasers, what I mean is that a robotic dragon as the golems is too powerful to be in the game, if 3DO gives them realistic stats, coz a machine will be always much more resistent than real creatures"

So your saying that in real life golems are more powerful then dragons? I hate to break this to you, but there are no golems or dragons in real life. And in fantasy it's not uncommon for a flesh and blood creature to destroy a golem, even a golem that is much bigger then he is.


"and of course steam engines aren't like robots. I thought I was quite clear about which machines I was talking about when I said they shouldn't be in the game "

You were talking about the dragon golem, which isn't even a machine in the first place. It's a magical construct. So I still have no idea what your basing anything you say on.

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_Seiken_
_Seiken_


Hired Hero
Dragon Slayer
posted August 20, 2001 05:11 PM

Quote:
You were talking about the dragon golem, which isn't even a machine in the first place. It's a magical construct. So I still have no idea what your basing anything you say on.


I don't see anything magical in a robot. As I see you haven't viewed the screenshots of the dragon golems. It's a piece of iron constructed by dwarves, so where's the magic?

And of course, when I talked about "real" creatures I meant flesh creatures. It seems you need more explanations than anyone before understanding anything.

But for me this discussion is over. Say what you want, I won't reply you.
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niteshade
niteshade


Known Hero
posted August 20, 2001 11:36 PM

"I don't see anything magical in a robot. As I see you haven't viewed the screenshots of the dragon golems. It's a piece of iron constructed by dwarves, so where's the magic?"

I've seen probably more screen shots then you have, and it's no more a robot then the gold golem or any other golem is. As for iron constructed by dwarves not being magic, you have obviously never read any fantasy. Dwarves are one of the most classic races for creating magic items out of iron. You still haven't given a single good excuse for why you think this is a robot.

"And of course, when I talked about "real" creatures I meant flesh creatures. It seems you need more explanations than anyone before understanding anything."

Did you actualy read what I posted? Let me explain more slowly so you don't look foolish by complaining that I am the one who needs to understand. Ordinary non magical flesh creatures have beaten golems many times in fantasy, so I have no problem with a magical fire breathing flesh creature beating a golem. You have not said one logical thing to counter this argument.

"But for me this discussion is over. Say what you want, I won't reply you"

Fair enough, considering you haven't been really reading what I have wrote and have just been spouting the same things over and over with no justification, you obviously have nothing real to say. So I'm happy if you admit to that by not replying.

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Wyvern
Wyvern


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 21, 2001 01:39 AM

Hello again! Wow, what a discussion! By the way, I hadn't seen Dragon Golems before I read that article in "Gamers' Workshop". There is a screenshot in the article which shows a battle and there are Dragon Golems in it. As I see, these dragons have the construction of the Eiffel Tower and (which is more frustrating) there is a torso of Golem with hands and a head on the back of the dragon! I can't understand this. Does the golem manipulate the dragon or not? If not, with what does the dragon attack? With the Dragon head or with the Golem torso? Anyway, I don't agree with those Dragon Golems - is the Academy town a mechanical town? And the Dragon Golems are too strong - they have less HP and Damage than the Black Dragon, but they'll always attack him first and he will retaliate with only what survived the attack.
But we can't change this. We have to get used to those Dragon Golems.

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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
posted August 21, 2001 02:03 AM
Edited By: UnkaHaakon on 21 Aug 2001

Dragon Golems: sound nasty...

The humanoid figure seems to be the "driver" for the Dragon Golem. I was wondering why the storyline said they were "feared". Now I know ...first strike in H4 will be a terrifying ability. If they have any kind of speed, and the usual golem resistence to certain spells... well, sounds like something to "slow" and shoot up... if you can.

Thanks again Wyvern...and congrats on a well earned QP.


On a personal note:
Quote:
By the way Incubus, berserkers never have turned into giants in any kind of myth. I don't know where you got that from. They are norse human warriors who went into a killing rage in battle and attacked without any fear or thought.


His comments probably came from some role-playing game or another. Don't confuse him with "boring" facts. As a long time student of Norse and medieval history, the "turning into giant grunts" bit had me LMAO
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niteshade
niteshade


Known Hero
posted August 21, 2001 02:07 AM

By the way, if you run the numbers you should see that the black dragon will still crush the dragon golem in a straight fight. First strike is good, but being alot stronger is even better. But there may be other balancing factors between the two.

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Wyvern
Wyvern


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 21, 2001 06:04 AM

Alas, this time I couldn't get new information. I emailed Maranthea to ask her a few questions and make suggestions (although I know that there can't be made such changes). She answered that they pay attention to every suggestion... and that she can't answer my questions because she shouldn't reveal so much information. What a pity!
About the screenshots... I have said almost everything but there are some things that are interesting - there are bridges on the map (I guess that they will be guarded by creatures in most cases). There are strange buildings like faces with big mouths - I think they are teleporters. There is also a screenshot of the Nightmares and information about them:
Nightmare
24-50 Damage
180 Hit Points
18 Spell Points (I'm not sure but the picture seems to show Spell Points - so the Nightmare is a spellcaster)
The next stats is 22(23) but I have no idea what is it
The next seems to be Haste - 6
Luck - neutral
Morale - + or ++
And there is a description:
"Nightmares can cast Fear causing their enemy to lose their turn.
Nightmares are also immune to Life Magic spells and take less damage from Life-aligned creatures."
So there are rivalries again! Nightmares against Life-aligned creatures!
By the way, the Nightmare is a horse without a raider. Horse-spellcaster?

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