|
| Thread: Unique racial abilities | |
|
Jondifool
Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
|
posted November 24, 2005 07:18 PM |
|
|
Unique racial abilities
greetings
the 23.11 its posted on the oficial website what the unique racial abilities roughly is.
to sum it up shortly.
The might oriented HAVEN get counterstrike and training of units (low levels to high level)
Sylvan gets favorite enemy. Where creatures in heroes army deals more damage to selected creature type.
Academy gets the ability to create minature artifact.
Inferno the ability to gate creatures into a battle
Necropolis as ususal necromancy but with tougher troops at higher level
Dungeon the ability to deal magic damage with Invocation and also with Elemental Vision to get advantage on battlefield by combining elements of terain and creatures!
NOW this could be really good news, because that means that each town truly is going to have some differences in strength and weaknesses and also it means that they might actual be played very different!.
This offcause also means that the game has a lot more balancing issues to attend, than else! Good news if its done well.
It looks like each racial abillity is going to be linked too more skills at the heroes disposal! (at least its stated for sylvan).
At the moment i think a little about the diferense in having a town based skill, (training ) that means you have to herochain trained troops to your main hero. And to have a hero based skill that can be used on the battlefield. Its difficult to get an idea of what the balance of the skills is even without taking such things into consideration.
But i am certainly looking forward to explore the posibility of army building for Academy and Sylvan.
As for both it looks interesting of how to shape the army against the opponent you are to meet.
Secondly i see a lot off interesting battles with tactical choices around the Dungeon skills and the Demon gating. That could goes for sylvan as well if some bonus against hatred enemy goes for some of there units and not others, meaning that there is more tactical things to consider on the battlefield
Necropolis and Haven abillities looks from now pretty straight forward, build bigger army and explore the map to the best.( i predict a little difference in necros fight to raise corpses against Havens get gold to train troops). But I hope there is a lot of things that makes a little more to them battlewise. At least Haven might have a choise in wich troop to train for , and a reason to make different choices deppending on map and opponent!
Overall it looks like there really is something interesting and different to do with most towns!
Looking at the bright side , and not the posibility that thesse things get to difficult to balance!
Disclaimer - pls don't laugh to much if you are a beta tester and these considerations are way out!
with regards Jondifool
____________
The Oxe is slow, but earth have patience
|
|
TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
|
posted November 24, 2005 08:28 PM |
|
|
lol XD...
lol, Heroes V Overview seems really unpopular among us, guys 
I posted the same, but none recognized - oh well, someone has succeeded me 
Anyway, some more info on the skills (a bit more in-depth, so u get a better understanding).
Finally, the whole list of town-based skills is posted. Fabrice provided us with a list, which is unlikely to be changed in future (IMO).
Official Site
Here I will provide with a short summary of what you can see there.
As vlaad and jondi said, Haven heroes will have the ability to upgrade creatures from within their ranks up to champions, provided you have the necessary building (Training Grounds) built and the necessary skills (Expert Trainer).
It is also said that Haven will have another skill - the Counterstrike. Depending on the level of the skill, Haven creatures under command of that hero will deal damage when retaliating.
Then, the Academy. This town, as I have no doubts you already have heard, will have the skill called "Artifice". They will be able create mini-artifacts for creatures to put on and by upgrading the skill, more powerful artifacts will be created.
Sylvan town. As vlaad told you already, the Sylvan rangers will allow the army to choose from one to four (depending on the level of the skill and also the buildings in town) favorite enemies against whom they will deal extra damage.
The infernal heroes will have the ability to GATE. I am not sure still what will it do, but from what I have heard, it will be a skill, that will allow your heroes to transfer an amount of creatures "stored" in town directly into combat. However, it will take some time for them to appear and the turn will be ended and only low-levelled creatures will be summoned. The creature type (level) and the amount will depend on the level of the skill and the hero.
Necromancers will always be necromancers. This system won't be changed a lot from what I had seen in h4. Necropolis' heroes will be able to resurrect a number of dead creatures in combat as skeletons (or other type of undead), based on the skill level.
The last and the least so far is the Dungeon town. The town which proposed us the biggest changes (apart from the Academy) will have two dungeon-aligned skills to upgrade. This will be Invocation and Elemental Vision (this one intrigues me a lot).
Invocation will allow the mages to attack magic-resistant and even units that are immune to magic with spells and magical attacks. The damage and the percentage (I think) will depend on the level of the skill.
Then the Elemental Vision. This will make enemies suffer a lot. Warlocks can "sense" what is the true element of the creature (air, water etc.) and use it to his army's advantage. Attacking enemies with opposing elements will result in additional damage. The terrain will also affect the characteristics of the creature, if the element is matched.
That's the sum up. Don't know if I forgot something, but still, you can go to M&M.com using the link above and see everything by yourself.
mhm...
Somehow, someway I do agree with Jondi here, though I seem to have a couple of contradictions.
First, I don't think that Necros' will be more powerful with raising units while the Haven will have the upgrades. Don't forget the counterstrike AND imagine what it will mean to have, let's say, ~10 champs a week instead of ~6 ('coz yes, it will be possible to upgrade whichever unit you want (or so I have heard; IMO if you are planning to create champs from knights, you will have to upgrade the knights to inquisitors).
Also, the possibility that it is difficult to balance will be minor. After all, the beta-testing folk will surely do their job good, if they are going to do it at all
Anyway, the game looks as if it will be awesome.
Whatever happens, let's look on the bright side of life!
P.S. I deleted my post in the old thread so as not to be charged for double-posting
____________
|
|
Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
|
posted November 24, 2005 09:24 PM |
|
Edited By: Vlaad on 24 Nov 2005
|
off topic
Quote:
lol, Heroes V Overview seems really unpopular among us, guys
It's a sticky, so it's actually hard to notice if there is a new post unless you check out the dates.
Quote:
As vlaad and jondi said...
I think jondifool is not for jondi fool but jon difool, the hero from a great French comic. 
on topic
Quote:
Haven heroes will have the ability to upgrade creatures from within their ranks up to champions, provided you have the necessary building (Training Grounds) built and the necessary skills (Expert Trainer).
Aside from the fact that it sounds a bit overpowered, I think it will reduce the diversity of Haven units and thus reduce the number of possible tactical options as well. However, I am not even a beta tester and agree we must wait for the game release to see whether it is actually unbalanced or not.
Quote:
It is also said that Haven will have another skill - the Counterstrike. Depending on the level of the skill, Haven creatures under command of that hero will deal damage when retaliating.
It might be interesting in combination with a large number of Griffins, which have kept their unlimited retaliations ability. It would be great if the creature specialties were back, too - especially in this case.
Quote:
Then, the Academy. This town, as I have no doubts you already have heard, will have the skill called "Artifice". They will be able create mini-artifacts for creatures to put on and by upgrading the skill, more powerful artifacts will be created.
The "mini-artifacts" (what a name  ) will probably work like Warlord's Banner from WoG, slightly boosting creatures' stats (+ 1 attack etc). It's a pity the wizards will not be able to forge true artifacts... it is my favorite feature in Shadow Magic!
Quote:
Sylvan town. As vlaad told you already, the Sylvan rangers will allow the army to choose from one to four (depending on the level of the skill and also the buildings in town) favorite enemies against whom they will deal extra damage.
Now, this one is strange. Shouldn't Sylvans protect Nature? Weren't the enemies of Nature also the enemies of the Elves? The skill itself sounds OK, but in my opinion doesn't fit...
Quote:
The infernal heroes will have the ability to GATE. I am not sure still what will it do, but from what I have heard, it will be a skill, that will allow your heroes to transfer an amount of creatures "stored" in town directly into combat. However, it will take some time for them to appear and the turn will be ended and only low-levelled creatures will be summoned. The creature type (level) and the amount will depend on the level of the skill and the hero.
The question is - will the summoned creatures stay in the army or not (after the combat is over)? Or will they "gate back" (return) to the town from which they were summoned? Again, it might be unbalancing, especially as the time passes by...
|
|
Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
|
|
posted November 25, 2005 03:16 AM |
|
|
I like they Sylvan one, i do that all the time when my friends are playing a multiplayer game.
Me: Nathanial, focus on the left flank. Mia, Take your troops and hit the Elephant Riders.
Necropolis is the best anyone could have hoped for.
Dungeon: ???
Haven: this could be a problem on large maps.
Inferno: Nifty!
Acadamy: cool.
____________
How exactly is luck a skill?
|
|
dvader
Adventuring Hero
Dark Lord of the Sith
|
|
posted November 25, 2005 03:44 AM |
|
|
This should make for an interesting mutliplayer game, whether one that is long or short. All factions can benefit from a short game. Necropolis will benefit more from a long game than the other factions, because the longer they are in play, the more undead they can raise. All in all, I look forward to using all factions when the game is released.
____________
"Wipe them out...
All of them."
|
|
Jondifool
Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
|
|
posted November 25, 2005 10:47 PM |
|
|
To TDL-------
"oh I did see your mentioning in the sticky thread , I just didn't feel it was the place for discussing it , sry for not mentioned it was posted there (was to tired to do things right)
Inferno
gating from stored creatures , thats sounds like a well balanced solution! Happy to hear that. I would exspect the troops to gate back as not to fight battles just to gate troops in to the front hero!
Haven or Necropolis.
I still think it comes down to this
Hoarding a lot or traing alot! On map with lot of gold haven would train a lot of creatures, with a map with lots of creatures and little gold necro would get more out off their special!Beside that its difficult to judge, but actual the special sounds a lot like the same!
I hope you are right about balancing and beta testing! But i just stated that such thing is exstreamly difficult to do!
In general i don't fear the battlefield boosting skills not to be balanced in the end, as the map/ army building ones.
to Vlaad .-----------
about sticky thread see above.
Jon difool is certainly the ANTIhero from the french comic!
About haven ! i feel that its possible too that haven loose diversity , on the other hand there is tools to keep the variation. increasing the training cost a little for each troop trained of same type would force diversity! Or fluktating it !
The griffin combo sounds really interesting , but i fear that counterstrike might only work on the troops that can be trained!
The sylvan enimosity is a ranger trait in Ad&d. It might be inspired from there.
about academy mini artifact, i hope for a lot more different options that just a small attack boost. there is great posibilitys in this!
Jondifool
____________
The Oxe is slow, but earth have patience
|
|
Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
|
|
posted November 26, 2005 10:01 AM |
|
Edited By: Vlaad on 26 Nov 2005
|
Quote:
The griffin combo sounds really interesting , but i fear that counterstrike might only work on the troops that can be trained!
No, I believe Counterstrike is a separate ability.
Quote:
about academy mini artifact, i hope for a lot more different options that just a small attack boost. there is great posibilitys in this!
I didn't mean just + 1 attack, it could be any other minor boost... But it would be really nice if other special abilities (First Strike, Double Strike, etc) were possible as well.
|
|
Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
|
|
posted November 26, 2005 02:56 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Depending on the skill level, more complex and powerful equipment can be created.
I cant wait to learn more!
____________
How exactly is luck a skill?
|
|
Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
|
posted November 26, 2005 10:27 PM |
|
|
|
this_other_guy
Famous Hero
{0_o} heh...
|
|
posted November 27, 2005 05:31 AM |
|
|
I hope Nival isn't trying to bite off more than they can chew with this idea. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great concept but the concern lies with balancing issues since the conceptual difference behind each town's unique ability is so extensive. As someone mentioned before, Haven will be overpowered on large maps, and Sylvan seems underpowered with its specialty of being able to target only a few selected units. Hope the beta testers will come through with a resolution.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
____________
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
|
| |
|
|
