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| Thread: Morality question |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted February 14, 2006 03:30 AM |
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Poll Question:
Morality question
Inspired by Milina's "Bad Employer" post.
You are working for someone. You know with 100% certainty how many hours you worked and how much pay you are due. Your paycheck is $100 short and your employer refuses to pay it to you.
Your last day on the job you see $100 laying on your emplorer's desk. (see where I'm going?) With a magic crystal ball you know for certain the money belongs to your boss and not someone else. You also know if you took the money nobody but you would ever know. Noone, including your boss, would ever know it was gone. You know these things for a fact. No legal issues, strictly moral.
1) Is it OK to take it?
2) WOULD you take it?
3) If the answer to 1 & 2 are different, why?
Remember, you are the only one who will know.
Please answer questions 1 & 2 as stated above in your mind before reading the actual poll questions. They are two separate questions with different thought processes. I had to combine them for the poll itself.
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted February 14, 2006 11:36 PM |
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I wouldn't take the money, and it would have been wrong of me to do so.
Why?
Because I have no idea of knowing what my employer intended to use that money for. It could, of course, be that the employer was gonne use it all on porn and beer. But it could also be that the money was gonna be used for paying electricity bills, insurance bills, or something like that.
Some might say that since my employer in a way "stole" from me when he didn't pay me what I was due, I was intitled to "take a little back". However, I don't like that kind of ethics. "Eye for an eye" is a concept I've never seen the benefit of. Hurting others does not help you.
I may be flattering myself here, but at least I made a post to reply and give reasons for my answers... 
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted February 15, 2006 12:45 AM |
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Actually when I was thinking it through, your reason never occured to me. I guess I was working under the assumption that the employer could afford to pay you. If I had thought of it, I would have made it a condition, that it didn't hurt the employer financially in any way.
But that's OK you answered that way, it's part of the thought process. Would it have made any difference to you if I had made that a condition?
I won't give my own views right now. But I will say the results are approximately what I expected....some minor differences, but not much.
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted February 15, 2006 12:52 AM |
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Quote:
Actually when I was thinking it through, your reason never occured to me. I guess I was working under the assumption that the employer could afford to pay you. If I had thought of it, I would have made it a condition, that it didn't hurt the employer financially in any way.
But that's OK you answered that way, it's part of the thought process. Would it have made any difference to you if I had made that a condition?
I don't think so. I mean, it'd still be the employer's money, and stooping to his/her level...  not my kind of style, I think...
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted February 15, 2006 06:12 AM |
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my take...
would be ok to get the money (after all, it should have been mine in the first place) ...but i wouldn't take it
that would make me as bad as the boss... i would leave the money there and then would make a pun or comment about it, so that he knows what i think of the whole situation
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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Lord_Pc
Promising
Famous Hero
Groin-Grabingly Clever
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posted February 15, 2006 12:18 PM |
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its wrong yes, but on the other hand its mine. grab it and walk away. . .
. . .maybe throw a few of his documents on the ground too
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Da-da-dada-HEY-dada-da-da
Two goldfish were in their tank. One turns to the other and says, 'You man the guns, I'll drive.'
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this_other_guy
Famous Hero
{0_o} heh...
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posted February 15, 2006 01:30 PM |
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Take it, then lodge a complaint to the Department of Fair Trading (or whatever you call it) about the original $100. If you have time, burn your manager's house down.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted February 16, 2006 09:52 AM |
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I didn't vote myself (not sure if you're supposed to vote in your own poll)
At first I was undecided. Then thought through various things about it. Like the money is owed to me, so it's OK to take it. Or it was really my money to start with. And all kinds of other things. But in the end, no matter what reasoning I used, pro or con, it just "felt" wrong. And that was the only thing that mattered.
But what's strange, is that the people who said it was OK, "felt" OK to me also. I don't have any problem with it. "Not OK, wouldn't take" is how I would choose, but all four answers seemed OK to me as long as the person followed their own conscience.
So to me, it's not really the taking of the money that's the moral question, but going against one's own conscience.
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Lacus
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 16, 2006 02:01 PM |
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I think it would be wrong for someone to take matters into their own hands and take the money. We have a legal system in our countries to deal with these sorts of matters.
The suggestions by others in this thread vary as to what would be an apprioprate retribution in this situation. Some people are pretty extreme... one guy suggested burning the guys house down!? Either way what im trying to say is its better for a third party to sort the matter to avoid the situation escalating. It keeps a level of consistancy too if everyone goes through the same channels (in theory at least)
Maybe im not really answering the question of this thread, which is one of morality. To be honest everyones going to have a different answer to that. But I think what i've suggested is the best practical option considering everyone involved.
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this_other_guy
Famous Hero
{0_o} heh...
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posted February 16, 2006 03:05 PM |
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Quote:
one guy suggested burning the guys house down!?
That guy was joking
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted February 16, 2006 05:55 PM |
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Who the f**k cares what the money are intended for? Those would be MY money in the first place, not my boss's money. It is immoral for him to scam me, it is NOT immoral for me to claim MY money.
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TNT_Addict
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Beautiful Liar
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posted February 16, 2006 06:06 PM |
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I would have taken the money lying around, then looked for some more money that isn't mine.
And if I didn't find any money, I would have stuffed my entire jacket with office equipment like pens, mouse or some notebooks.
Serves right the lier and deciever! 
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted February 16, 2006 06:08 PM |
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Is "claiming" synonymous to "stealing"? Last time I checked, these words did not mean the same... If you mean you'd steal them (like your employer stole them from you), then perhaps you'd use the word "steal"? 
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted February 16, 2006 07:54 PM |
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erm...
Quote:
Quote:
one guy suggested burning the guys house down!?
That guy was joking
not so sure about that... but this_other_guy was joking for sure
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted February 16, 2006 08:10 PM |
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Quote:
Is "claiming" synonymous to "stealing"? Last time I checked, these words did not mean the same... If you mean you'd steal them (like your employer stole them from you), then perhaps you'd use the word "steal"?
No, no, no, of course not!!! TNT would NEVER steal anything! All he would be doing is borrowing stuff from his boss to return at some later time. Amd I right, TNT?
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TNT_Addict
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Beautiful Liar
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posted February 16, 2006 08:31 PM |
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No you are wrong, I will borrow stuff for the whole eternity and then some...
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted February 16, 2006 08:38 PM |
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Well, duh! What do you think the word later means???
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted February 16, 2006 10:24 PM |
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@Lacus
So you're suggesting using hundreds of dollars for court time, judge's salary, paperwork, etc to collect $100. When the initial conditions said there was 100% certainty the money was owed to you? Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate, but it's a legitimate question.
For those who said they wouldn't take it, whether it was OK or not:
Since nobody was there and nobody would even know it was gone, did taking the money just seem "sneaky"? Or did it seem like a violation of another person? I mean it was at the boss's business, and his/her personal office and desk.
Would it have made a difference if the boss was actually sitting at the desk? You ask one last time for the money before leaving, and the boss again refuses. Then you simply say "you owe me this money so I'm taking it". It's no longer sneaky or doing something behind their back. Is this somehow different?
Another scenario: What if you later saw the boss waking down the sidewalk. He/she drops a $100 bill without realizing it. There's nobody else around and it's a very windy day. You barely manage to stomp on the bill with your foot. If you let your foot up, it will blow away, never to be seen again. If you pick it up, would you keep it or chase after the boss and return it?
Third scenario: You are walking down the street and you see someone stealing someone's wallet. The victim of the theft just hopped in a taxi and is gone. You are the only one who sees it and there is nobody to hear you if you yell out. Would you chase after the thief? Would NOT chasing them be wrong? By not chasing them, does this encourage the thief to continue stealing? Does the thief continue to steal because he/she gets by with it?
The original question was inspired by Milena's post where the boss did this sort of thing regularly. If it was wrong to NOT chase the thief, would it also be wrong to NOT take the money? Does the boss only do this sort of thing because he/she gets by with it?
One last question. Regardless of your final decision, consider the thought process itself while making the decision....and be perfectly honest with yourself. Did you at any time during the thought process, for even the briefest flash, metaphorically look upward to some kind of higher power, something etherical outside yourself?
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Lacus
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 16, 2006 11:10 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
one guy suggested burning the guys house down!?
That guy was joking
Yeah I thought so but it did kind of go along with my point that that is why its important people dont take matters into their own hands, otherwise who is to say what you suggested isnt that bad, I mean it depends on your concept of fairness and equilivent punishment.
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Lacus
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 16, 2006 11:14 PM |
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Quote:
@Lacus
So you're suggesting using hundreds of dollars for court time, judge's salary, paperwork, etc to collect $100. When the initial conditions said there was 100% certainty the money was owed to you? Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate, but it's a legitimate question.
Well I dont know about using hundreds of dollars, but in New Zealand we have small claims courts which are much cheaper and for situations like this I believe. I mean in the end you obviously have to weigh up whether its worth it too, but I would never suggest taking matters into your own hands because like I said before, everyones views on apprioprate retribution will vary.
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