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| Thread: An Honor Council Issue |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted February 19, 2006 12:31 AM |
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An Honor Council Issue
There is always cheating accusations with Cpcosminpopa but at least from the Honor Council's view, they seemed unfounded. Until this one, both me & Lichking felt that its best that homm3 players see the saves and give their own opinions on this case. It seems like Cpcos has been caught red-handed, but we'd like to see what you think:
Here are the saves in a zip file -- http://www.toheroes.com/cossaves.zip
And here is the accusers' comments:
With hope that you'll read !
Hi my name it's Gabriel and I wanna say a lot of stuff :
in toh I'm ObiWanKenobi
First I was stop for a 8 month two play heroes 3 when someone in spy coming with 30 Azure Dragons
.. and in last month in the last year my godson coming and show to me how it's possible to cheat without "write cheater at finish "
and I'll tell a few friends how!
and last night I was playing with cpcosminpopa to prove that!
I use this "power" all the time in this game ... and at finish he sad u cheating ( agree ) but because he insulting me .. I was watch at the game and I see something interesting :
in 116 he have to building citadel and castle and angel - 3 building in 2 days .. and he did it ! cool ... I'll attach few save for prove
... and second I've another save when he use fly it's easy to sight that from save ... and nr 3 he see all the time maps and he see all the time what opponent doing have more computers .. I know that because he tell me and I know a lot of games when he giving to me the save for "tell me what opponent doing or tell what it's in cube ... bla bla bla" for now I'll send to you that game when we was playing last night ! and I'll look through in my hhd for sending to you games when he using fly ! … if I will not find for prove you can tell he using wrong (bag ) generating maps …. ( hero with diplomacy and bla bla
I will write to you more .. like discussion about games and players from toh like : Gaby Stan , François Manseau Frank , Petrus , Gecho Stanislavov Pissarevsky The_Saint_BG and other ones …
sorry for my English
Pls write to me soon !
P.S.
Look in 125 at the blue : in two days u see he bit with only Gerwulf ( see experience at the hero ) , thunderbirds and golem and wights and minotaurs and take the cube and bit unicorns ,ok, try to move the hero (Gerwulf ) in 2 days only at minotaurs and unicorns
Best Regards,
Gabriel
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted February 19, 2006 01:04 AM |
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Thats so unfortunate.
There was another problem in the zone with Saint & CP.
I guess he was in the right but theres a reason for making the no wyverns & no angel nest/con rule.
Saint went in Wyvern nest just to get a little exp & did not keep the wyverns.
CP got so mad he complained on zone.
Personally I dont find it a rule breaking to get a messling 800XP in a nest as long as you dont keep them.
I wouldnt care either way but i guess rule is a rule.
He seemed like a nice guy, sometimes we talk but this is unfortunate.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted February 19, 2006 01:16 AM |
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What´s irritating for me on that pic is, that i see THREE heroes on the list, but FOUR in the game????
How is that possible???
Edit:
Just checked the saves....looks like the pic isn´t from that current game. The "more than 1 building built per day" problem is a typical "bug" when one party saves during opponents turn. I checked even every single stat cpcos has during week 2, and when counting all boosters on the map and in town (inferno), + all level ups, i´m sure they are correct.
So from my opinion, i can´t see any (obvious) cheats so far. Didn´t replay all turns to check the fights and the levels of Gerwulf, but for me, it seems there is no need to.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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cosmin
Known Hero
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posted February 19, 2006 02:02 AM |
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Hello everybody
I'm cpcos.. the cheatter.. but i guess till now here was only one side
here the second one
i sent to vezuvius at vesuvius@simyar.com
my saves also that are made on MY TURN not on opponent turn..
when you save on opp turn there will be a mess with all game facts..
of course if save on opp turn and you're blue the red won't be able to build the constructions on time
try for yourself and you'll see that
and i would like to see my saves also posted here so the guys arround to have the all pictures ok..
not one side as you've seen till now
and BTW if he said he cheated how in the world will acuse me Vesuvius?? how can you belive this jerk??
i played game on multiplayer so many guys arround saw how i play.. ex KhounHerve1, maretti, gabystan
i'm so curious if you see my saves..
good luck to you all
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted February 19, 2006 03:01 AM |
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I also made the same mistake & I never knew about saves skipping a day when your blue & accused someone also.
A vet player I didnt even know was a vet.
Sure Ves & Lich remembers it was the only player i falsely accused.
It's an honest mistake & it happens.
Cant remember his name but he is riding a motorcycle on an old toh pic lol.
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cosmin
Known Hero
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posted February 19, 2006 06:17 AM |
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Edited by cosmin on 19 Feb 2006
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Hi Aculias,
About this issue is not that 800 experience from hive.. but if he wouldn’t take it he would still be level 9 not enough for taking the library near by - witch is far enough to come back lately (you'll loses 2 days to come and then retreat somewhere near by..), so this makes that the hive is important if you have rule no hive and no cons.. Then not even for experience)
I'll give you a simple example of what this means.
Let's say you play no cons hives rule right?
and you take one cons and use those angels in your army to break (2 angels are good army on breaks) then you dismiss them at the end of turn (or even you loose them during the battle)
Then you tell your opponent that you didn't use them cause you dismissed them after the fight..
See my point here??? Not good i guess...so no cons rule became with cons here.. In a very important moment...
and you cannot prove that your opponent cheated.. right??
So no cons no hives??? The only prove is load and they should be no visited..
Full stop..
cos
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GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
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posted February 19, 2006 06:28 AM |
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Quote:
There was another problem in the zone with Saint & CP.
I guess he was in the right but theres a reason for making the no wyverns & no angel nest/con rule.
Saint went in Wyvern nest just to get a little exp & did not keep the wyverns.
CP got so mad he complained on zone.
Personally I dont find it a rule breaking to get a messling 800XP in a nest as long as you dont keep them.
I wouldnt care either way but i guess rule is a rule.
I also saw that, Aculias, and the exact scenario is like this: Saint not only took 800 exp (dunno if a Full Hive of not) from Hive in a neutral area where he could not use the Wyverns to beat something and THEN dismiss, but he needed those points to make level 10 to hero and visit the Library of Enlightenment right near the Hive. So it was a gain of major importance, not the mere 800 experience, Aculias.
Another fact: I have all saves from Cpcos and Obi_Wan_Kenobi (taken from here the later ones), and that bug Angelito has mentioned before is clearly appearant. If we load Obi's saves, made on Cpcos' turn, they result in crap. If we load Cpcos', made on his own turn, of course, it all comes up fine.
Third fact: Why in the world should you use cheating to catch some other person doing that (cheating)? If I am going to reveal a cheater, first I have to behave honestly to have a credible word, haven't I? If I am the one using the cheating and can't even prove my opponent is doing that too, than I make a fool out of myself showing to the world how exquisite cheat crap I hide in my sleeves (and use, who knows how often...). Hm, how stupid is that?
A final thing: I also made the mistake of believing I was cheated on due to saving after my opponent (Saint_BG, whom we all know as one of the best) left the game due to some connection problem or something. I played Red, so it could only happen if an exit occured for Blue player. There were two reasons for my suspicion: 1. the saves I saw from Cpcos with Saint taking that Hive for level 10 before Library and 2. the fact Saint came right onto my main hero in treasure area, ignoring Pandoras and potential good relics and caught me completely unprepared (I had both Earth Tome and Red Orb, so could choose between 2 Implosions or no spells at all - I was short on mana points -, but left them down in the backpack, considerring I have time in the next turn to prepare for final battle - there was some safety space, at least half a day). So I sent those saves to Maretti to check them up, and he cleared things out for me: the save was made on his exit and AI played for him and the fact he could see me with Expert View Air. So I also apologize publicly for suspecting Saint of cheating in our game. Sorry bud!
Edit: I have to apologize (again) for repeating some points Cpcos told above, I did not see his text for I was writting mine while he posted it here.
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Your worst enemy is... yourself.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted February 19, 2006 06:56 AM |
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I know saint will do what it takes to win but he wont cheat & one of few players I trust.
He will kill your catapult etc.
With Obi case I see a vendetta.
Why It;s hard to see CPcos cheat because not only did Obiwan admit to cheating & should be put in the HOS but he was insulted as well so it seems he tried to get back at him as well.
I Trust Lichking with any decision he makes cause hes one of the honest people on here I know & one of my favs.
It's right to here both sides of the stories.
Personally I think CPCOS would not cheat.
Especially from a cheater who was out to get him.
Saint episode I understand both sides, l know his intention was not to cheat,like I said he will do whatever it takes to win.
I wouldnt take it to heart.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted February 19, 2006 12:40 PM |
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About the "hive" issue with Saint....i can only say one thing cosmin.....seems u make way too much rules. The lesser rules u make, the lesser problems u will have in accusing cheating or anything like that. Banning all dwellings and similar things makes a random even more unbalanced.
Just my 2 cents..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 19, 2006 02:24 PM |
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Quote:
I also made the same mistake & I never knew about saves skipping a day when your blue & accused someone also.
A vet player I didnt even know was a vet.
Sure Ves & Lich remembers it was the only player i falsely accused.
It's an honest mistake & it happens.
Cant remember his name but he is riding a motorcycle on an old toh pic lol.
I cant believe what im hearing. Aculias falsely acusing someone of cheating. I surely hope he didnt let you forget about it for a couple of years. 
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted February 19, 2006 03:39 PM |
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Remember cpcos, I've defended you in every complaint against you in the past, but it seems to keep happening. I just needed the feedback of the community on this one, but it 'seems' that you have been caught cheating red-handed, but it may not be so. Right now, my main system doesn't even have homm3 anymore, just homm4. But you're not on HOS right now as you can see, and your record is intact.
Also, vesuvius@simyar.com email is disabled, it would get over 400 spam emails a day. I'm not sure why people still send emails there, when the obvious email for ToH is admin@toheroes.com (!!!!!!)
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted February 19, 2006 08:26 PM |
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It was many yrs ago & I would gladly admit my mistakes & I try to help others not to repeat what i have done.
I made a mistake & apologised to him.
I made a few mistakes when I was new but they were minor but i learned from them.
Just like life,everyone makes mistakes it's just if you dont repeat them & learn.
It makes you a better person.
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cosmin
Known Hero
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posted February 19, 2006 09:07 PM |
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Edited by cosmin on 21 Feb 2006
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Hi Vesuvius
First of all I would like to thank you for the credit you gave me in the past...It is important for me to hear that. I was a newbie here so I guess cheating accusations that have been made against me really were a problem (if I would have been a vet for sure you wouldn’t believe them),
In this problem you posted something that really caught everyone's attention... I AM CALLED A CHEATTER BY A GUY WHO CHEATTED SO BADLY!!!
This simply cannot be true... what's wrong is only the way he made saves... ( being blue, saving on my turn (if you load it after), not only
you cannot construct for that day for red
BUT ALL RED’S HEROES DON'T MOVE ANYTHING THAT DAY!!! SO THAT'S WHY YOU CANNOT REACH WHAT HE SAID THERE:
BECAUSE THERE ARE NOT 2 DAYS BUT 3...
The facts are like this
Suppose I’m red and normally in day 4 I build monks in town (first day magic guild second blacksmith 3rd swordsman) and move with my heroes and end turn
Now it is his turn. He's moving so till now it is ok.
BUT HERE IS THE PROBLEM
He ends turn in his 4th day so it's my turn as red
(However his day got changed in game as blue... he cannot move but he is now also in month 1 week 1 day5)
So being my turn I would start moving.
SO HE MADE THE SAVE NOW ON MY TURN...
Guess what he saves?? Let me tell you what he saves:
1. red didn't move any heroes on day 5 (because I didn't yet 'cause he saves now and I cannot move my heroes in 10 seconds time when he's doing it)
2. no building made in my town in day 5 (I didn't do it cause I build after I move with my heroes before ending the turn)
So here you go... day 5 for red is blank on that save..
And if you load it in multiplayer later red won't get the turn for his day 5 (it's easy to see that by ending blue’s turn on the save 115(month, week, day) and you'll see that now for red is 116).
HERE YOU GO...IT'S JUST A SIMPLE EXPLICATION OF WHAT ACTUALLY EVERYDODY CAN SEE FROM THAT SAVE...
On main page of TOH you can read somewhere that saves done on opponent's turn cannot be considered proves, right?
"Do NOT send saved game files made during an opponents turn in as evidence of possible cheating. Saves (created during YOUR turn) often need to be made to prove someone actually cheated. Saves made when it is not your turn are often very inaccurate because data has not fully been sent and will not be considered valid no matter what they "seem" to show."
You may say here: how I can prove that what I’m saying is true...
Well as you can see being red and if blue saves on your turn you cannot actually say for sure that he did it on your turn... The only thing I can say is that...
I UNDERSTAND TO CALL A CHEAT TO STEAL SOMETHING FROM SOME MONSTERS OR TO USE CODES FOR DOING ANYTHING ON THE MAP...
NOT BUILD REGULAR BUILDINGS IN A SITUATION WHERE I HAD PLANTY OF RESOURCES AND TRADING POST ON MY AREA ... AN EMPEROR OF TOH SIMPLY CANNOT DO SUCH A MISTAKE...
So I would say: the problem here it's so obvious that I wouldn’t even discuss it...
Then you said "But you're not on HOS right now as you can see, and your record is intact."
OK HOW ABOUT HIM??? WHY NOT HE'S NOT ON HOS?? HE CHEATED, AND REALLY BAD ALL GAME...
LOOK in his saves:
Monere takes 2 crypts and beats a warrior tomb (usually this is heavily guarded) with just 14 pixies and 3 air elements
Week 2 he takes utopia with 1 angel...
If his hero dies in a battle (LYONIS) HE'S GOING LEVEL UP !!!
TRY IT FOR YOURSELF... THAT'S CHEATTING PEOPLE...
And by the way I sent the saves to admin@TOHeroes.com and to LichKing@mchsi.com as well...
HOW COME THEN YOU DON'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT MY EMAIL I SENT YOU???(WITH MY SAVES THERE AS WELL)(If you may I ask about it).
I'll forward those emails to Angelito they keep the date of the day I sent them so NOW FOR SURE YOU KNOW THEY ARE THERE FOR DISCUSSIONS... and if so just post my saves here too.. Thx
And one more thing: I don't want to upset anybody around...actually the good thing with this TOH is that he brought together the best heroes 3 players ever... and I had the chance to know them to play them all...It's a thing that made me proud: I met them and I can play very good games online with or without tournaments... FOR THIS THING I REALLY THANK YOU TOH.
COSMIN
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druid
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 19, 2006 10:53 PM |
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An honour council matter ...lol
who is this honour council? a couple of nooblets who don't even play h3 nor know the fmg rule , what a joke
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druid
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 19, 2006 10:58 PM |
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btw don't expect me to beg for my account back lich 
No one bullies the Druid
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 19, 2006 11:43 PM |
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To me these saves show only one player cheating and that is blue. Its pretty obvious that some saves were made in reds turn which makes them useless.
Imo it should not be allowed to experiment with cheatcodes in a tohgame even if you admit it afterwards. At best you have wasted your opponents time.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Tentacule
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 19, 2006 11:45 PM |
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Hi Vesuvius
Hi Angelito
Hi all Toh players
About the cheating issue of the saves I looked at them and I realised from start that the player who played with cpcos made the same mistake I made two years ago,a mistake that bringed me to the hall of shame.Becowse of saving on opponents turnes h3 has a bug that makes those saves looking as if the player cheated.Two years ago I played with a legend of Toh at that time named Frank and after he beaten me 4 times in a row I started to have suspitions.And becowse I didn't know that saving that way will result in bugs I started to speak bad about Frank in Zone.Tew defended him becowse he knew he was a honorable player but I didnt know that and I started then speaking bad about him too thinking that he was just defending him not knowing the dispute between us.Then I found out that he was in the Toh council and that's how I got banned.
Now I'm using this thread , and I'm sorry for that,but somehow It's a similar situation like mine.I want to apologise the players from Toh I insulted but back then I was a noob.
I know cpcos and played with him , and I didn't see any cheat and belive me I know now how to save and find if he cheated.
I just want my nickname Tentacule back ,and in my oppinion two years in geil(hall of shame) is enough for poor atitude.Didn't made a crime like cheating...
Respect to all
Long live Toh!
____________
Tazar Forever !
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GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
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posted February 20, 2006 12:11 AM |
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Vesuvius, you say there're always accusations about Cpcos. Well, I know the guy and play him as often as we're both free and I can tell you he's a hell of a player, almost always breaks on Jebus week 2 and seems unbeatable. He also teaches me many things and I'm grateful to him for he's spending so much time with patience to do it. He's a really nice guy, but so is (was?) Obi. I consider him a friend. We never played (only talked on Messenger and sent e-mails to each other), but he told me he's gonna play when he will find a job. He played Cpcos before me and you can see the result. The thing is Obi was showing off a lot to me and reminded me he's not playing a game where he's unbeatable. I asked him to show me how good he is and teach me things, but that time never came...
Also, Cpcos is right, you should post here his saves too, it's not fair to only have 1 party's version of the story ("material" proof).
I know it in my mind there are lots of players who envie Cpcos for being so damn good. I'm not talking about the guys who send me to my origins and tell me how much they hate me for punishing them for their mistakes (I only hate myself when acting stupid), coz those are imature and should be ignored, but we all know the ugliest things arise when competition is fierce. And Obi was the better player of the two for many years... only now we'll never be sure if it was for real...
Remember, The Force is in US, not in what people think, say or do to us. And NEVER forget to live with HONOR!
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Your worst enemy is... yourself.
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cosmin
Known Hero
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posted February 20, 2006 02:30 AM |
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Edited by cosmin on 22 Feb 2006
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Quote:
seems u make way too much rules.
Well if both player agree them then Angelito out of discussion that there are too many rules... actually lately on zone or spy everybody seems to have same set of rules.. no dwellings cons and hives... I just prove to a friend of mine that and angel dwelling is fatal even playing with magic heroes (Ingham) against Sorcha (if i remember well Herve) and he's stats were double... so we tried that fight even without magic at all still my hero won.. (8 aa against he's 5aa) so no! I think if you play dwellings you get unbalanced maps... (in the case that one player get it and the other one don't, which you may see quite often).
I do respect what you've said Angelito.. but i just have a diffrent opinion.
cos
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GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
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posted February 20, 2006 11:21 AM |
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Tentacule dear, I also saw people fighting Frank on Zone and even here on the Community, but he's a hell of a player, I saw it with my own eyes, he doesn't need to cheat to beat 95% of us without a sweat.
Regarding rules, they are a lot on fixed maps: think of them not allowing Fly/DD, most not giving Earth Tome, Hat, Hill Fort, Carto, some not even having a Tope and so on. That's fair enough, too bad the shape of the map can't vary to avoid saturation or specialization. On the other hand, as long as one single factor can decide a game anyway (i.e. a relic), let it be random or fixed, lesser rules could result into evening out things: a dwell compensated by cons or a good Tope compensating both lack of money and external troops. Or could give all good things to one side leaving no chance for the other. In any case, luck plays a big part in Heroes when players are close enough in strenght. Either we live with that, or just go and play Chess or something...
Edid: About that picture of Obi: it's for showing off his "skills"...
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Your worst enemy is... yourself.
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