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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Roman legion town
Thread: Roman legion town This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · NEXT»
Mr48
Mr48


Adventuring Hero
Legatus Legionis
posted February 25, 2006 05:51 AM
Edited by Mr48 on 25 Feb 2006

Roman legion town

Hey guys, I was thinking about a possibility of a roman legion town type being added as an additional town for WOG.
The story would be that a portal was somehow opened from the planet on which HOMM takes place to our world (some other explanation more in line with the might and magic story could be used)

The town would be purely humans and machinery with only a little magic.

I've already come up with all the units and their stats and abilities, but I dont know anything about coding for HOMM, so if I provided a detailed description of my idea would some people be willing to help with the code and some others things that are needed?  
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Fnord
Fnord


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 25, 2006 08:16 AM

Quote:
Hey guys, I was thinking about a possibility of a roman legion town type being added as an additional town for WOG.
The story would be that a portal was somehow opened from the planet on which HOMM takes place to our world (some other explanation more in line with the might and magic story could be used)

The town would be purely humans and machinery with only a little magic.

I've already come up with all the units and their stats and abilities, but I dont know anything about coding for HOMM, so if I provided a detailed description of my idea would some people be willing to help with the code and some others things that are needed?  


The biggest part of it is creating the town graphics and the animations of all creatures, although there's a fair bit of other work too. From what I've seen, it generally takes quite a few months (more than six) to do all the animations for a full town (although I'm sure some professional graphic artists can work much faster).


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Mr48
Mr48


Adventuring Hero
Legatus Legionis
posted February 25, 2006 08:31 AM
Edited by Mr48 on 25 Feb 2006

I realise that it would take a while, but I started thinking about this town back when the contest to make up a town for heroes 5 was announced, but I never took the time to submit it.
Anyways, I'm going to type up the details of the legion town as I had them in mind and post them here so people can judge whether or not its worth the time to make this.
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Mr48
Mr48


Adventuring Hero
Legatus Legionis
posted February 25, 2006 07:11 PM

Ok heres an outline of the units for the Legion town:

Level 1
Basic: Peasant (the normal peasant from H3, pretty much useless in combat but generates coin)
Upgrade: Auxiliary (axe wielding infantry on par with the un-upgraded gnoll or pikeman), may even be worth it to leave peasants un-upgraded to generate gold.

Level 2
Basic: Skirmisher- armed with a sling and a sword, weaker than most lvl 2 shooters but has no melee penalty and very large amount of shots like 24
Upgrade: (expensive upgrade) Lancer- Spear throwing infantry- Strongest lvl 2 shooter (very high damage and attack for lvl 2), no melee penalty, but has only a few shots (3 or 4) needs an ammo cart to be effective, and has large range penalty so it can only be used at close range.

Level 3
Basic: Legionary (expensive)- carries a large rectangular shield and spear- Similar to griffin but has much higher defense due to shield and has first strike ability thanks to his long spear.
Upgraded:  Praetorian guard (has a black uniform instead of the legionary red) - same as legionary but all stats a little higher and has “Century bonus”- For every 80 praetorians in the stack the stack gains +2 attack and defense

Level 4
Basic: Medic-  (expensive unit) Physically weak unit needs to be protected but has very useful abilities: For every medic in the heroes army all the other stacks can regenerate 4HP per turn.
Upgrade: Combat Surgeon (expensive upgrade- overall price is more like a lvl 5 unit)- same as medic but has a little more HP and defense, the regeneration for other creatures is now able to resurrect dead units in a stack (like the vampire) and  can also cast expert heal

Level 5
Basic: Scorpion – looks similar to ballista, mechanical (with all applicable properties), has stats similar to monk.
Upgraded: Field Ballista- looks similar but maybe a little larger than scorpion, has stats similar to zealot, mechanical (with all applicable properties) and has no range or obstacle penalty.

Level 6
Basic: Cataphract- Wears chainmail and carries a spear- All stats somewhat  lower than a cavalier’s, but can be very effective when used properly thanks to its abilities:
Charge bonus just like the champion, and “Flanking maneuver” which gives the stack a 40% attack bonus if the target stack is already standing next to (adjacent hex)  another one of your stacks.
Upgraded: Praetorian Cataphract- Same as regular Cataphracts but have a black cape, and slightly higher attack and defense stats, all the same abilities, also they get a horse bow, which gives them an optional ranged ability, with all the normal range and obstacle penalties but obviously no melee penalty.

Level 7
Basic : Field catapult- looks similar to the normal catapult. Has high attack and damage  but rather low defense and HP (so keep it protected). Can attack walls (like the Cyclops) and has no range or obstacle penalties
Upgraded: Onager – looks a little larger than the field catapult, stats a little higher and has an additional ability that it can shoot over walls without penalty.

Level 8
Mithras’ Onager- Onagers blessed by Mithras the god worshipped by most Roma soldiers before Christianity, typical increase of stats over the normal onagers, perhaps also add splash damage.  


What do you guys think?

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greek_god_su...
greek_god_superman


Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
posted February 26, 2006 01:25 PM

Your unit ideas sound really good to my ear! I´d actually want to see those in game, but I guess I won´t. The idea of mechanical lvl7&8 (catapult) IMO is original enough to  fit in the game. Only would I want legionaries to be of higher level than 3.. Maybe 4 or 5 instead?
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime

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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 26, 2006 03:26 PM
Edited by Gnoll_Mage on 26 Feb 2006

Peasant - already in the game, but moving it would be fine.
Auxiliary - should generate gold too.
Skirmisher - fine.
Lancer - is to me a type of cavalry. Perhaps I'm wrong here.
Legionary - fine.
Praetorian Guard - fine
Medic - okay, too many human troops now in my opinion; we already have Castle after all.
Combat Surgeon - doesn't do it for me. Sounds to modern.
Ballista - okay I suppose.
Field Ballista - ditto.
Cataphract - too similar to Cavalier and Champion perhaps? Although he does have a spear (actually I thought Cataphracts were sword fighters...?)
Love the flanking
Praetorian Cataphract - perhaps more originality in name needed here.
Field Catapult - no. Not what I wanted to see I'm afraid, although I'm not in a position to whine since I cannot think of a replacement.
Onager - well the name is good anyway.
Mithras’ Onager - fine if the other two are in.

Overall a nice idea to some extent, although our world should not be involved in any way.

By the way, ICTC rating looks like about 34, should this be a submission for a H5 town, and not WOG. (Obviously that's not what I'd give it in its current state, I'm just making a vague-ish guess as to where it might be in my rankings.)
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Mr48
Mr48


Adventuring Hero
Legatus Legionis
posted February 26, 2006 07:35 PM
Edited by Mr48 on 26 Feb 2006

Thanks for the replies guys!
I was also thinking about making the legionaries a higher level unit, but the key to activate their special bonus is to accumulate a very large number of them, and at a level higher than 2 or 3  I just think it would be too difficult.

About the auxiliaries, I just didnt want to make them too useful, after all I want to create a balanced town, not some sort of super town. The lancers, were anyone who used a lance including cavalry with lances and just guys that threw them, and thats what I used.
Cataphract is a very broad term as almost every ancient empire worth its salt used them and as a result they used almost everything as weapons, swords maces lances spears whatever,  and the ones used by the Romans mostly carried spears. What distinguished them from other cavalry was that their armored their horses as well.

As for the similarities to cavaliers and champions, I want them to be considerably weaker so that for example in a 1 on 1 fight a cataphract would lose to a cavalier/champion, an efreet sultan, a naga, a dreadknight or a unicorn, but when used with the right tactics such as charging when the target is distracted by another stack they would be devastating. And ill try to think of a better name tan praetorian cataphract lol.

About the medics I see your point about the town being too bland with just humans, so maybe change them form humans to mage healers that the Romans taught their practical techniques like surgery (Romans had plenty of surgeons in the army) and on that note maybe change "combat surgeons" to just surgeons so that it doesnt sound too modern like you said.

Any further input is welcome

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SooT
SooT


Known Hero
posted February 26, 2006 08:16 PM

BUT! Animations... Animations...

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Mr48
Mr48


Adventuring Hero
Legatus Legionis
posted February 26, 2006 09:24 PM
Edited by Mr48 on 26 Feb 2006

I'm going to try and make some of the animations using the unit making guide provided on the Forge town website, but I'm also studying at university and dont have a lot of time to spend learning how to make them very professionally and do all the coding, thats why I was hoping to get some people to join me and help out.
I guess more people would be interested after they see the first animations I'll create myself.
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Mr48
Mr48


Adventuring Hero
Legatus Legionis
posted February 27, 2006 12:58 AM
Edited by Mr48 on 26 Feb 2006

Here: I slapped together a legionary

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greek_god_su...
greek_god_superman


Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
posted February 27, 2006 01:15 AM

Well I must say I like this town... I have nothing to contribute to the work ahead if this kind of town would be implemented, but at least you have one (more?) fan/supporter by now...
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime

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Mr48
Mr48


Adventuring Hero
Legatus Legionis
posted February 27, 2006 03:31 AM
Edited by Mr48 on 26 Feb 2006

Thanks!
Hopefully more people will become interested and help out.
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Ra2
Ra2


Adventuring Hero
The good doctor
posted February 27, 2006 08:00 AM

interesting idea.
just a few comments, I hope you don't mind:
-it's somehow nasty that an upgraded creature should LOSE some attributes and gain new ones. It's not an upgrade anymore, it's more like another unit type.
-is there a possibility to add greater range penalty in WOG? I thought 1/2 was a maximum that a ranged troop can have in Heroes 3.
-medics: the unupgaded medic's special becomes almost useless when they are in large numbers (having 100 medics heals 400HP/turn but the toughest units that benefits is the cataphract... at around 100HP it's a waste.
-the combat surgeon's ability to ressurect is fine (although a bit surreal ). having a mechanical lvl7 and 8 means they can't ressurect catapults, so it's pretty balanced. but if you get another town and are able to recruit archangels... the combat surgeons become WAY too powerfull with their ressurection ability. maybe they should have another special ability.besides healing 4hp/turn they should be able to cast a spell (that can be dispelled) similar to hydra strenght (+25%HP to avery unit in a stack). should be great with cataphracts and super with legionnaires. I really can't think of a name for that ability.
the romans medicine promoted hygiene, use of herbs and the beneficial effects of the sun. any special ability should really be based on these facts about roman medicine.
-I particlarly like the 'flanking' ability. where did you get this idea? RoN by any chance?

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HELL_Deamon
HELL_Deamon


Known Hero
Shadow of death
posted February 27, 2006 04:28 PM

Quote:
Here: I slapped together a legionary

i think head is too big
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Mr48
Mr48


Adventuring Hero
Legatus Legionis
posted February 27, 2006 05:19 PM

About the medics, and auxilaries  I already explained that I dont want to fall too much in love with my town and make it too powerfull, so for the first level units I want there to be either fighting ability or financial gain not both so that the player will have to compromise.
As for the medics, the point is that they would only be useful in the early game and after you gte cataphracts you would need to make the expensive upgrade to surgeons to keep them useful, but again its expensive for balance purposes.
And about the range penalty I might be thinking of the "short range" units in heroes 4 so it might not be possible in H3, so the lancers might just have regular range and obstacle penalties.
Also, interestingly enough I got the idea for flanking from Sid Meiyer's Pirates.

BTW the head on the legionary is fine as I used the unaltered torso of the Titan, it might just seem big because you cant see the rest of the body because of the shield.
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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 27, 2006 11:31 PM

I might be able to do some animations for you, perhaps, if you so wish. I somehow suspect that they wouldn't be that good, but...
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SooT
SooT


Known Hero
posted February 28, 2006 12:23 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Here: I slapped together a legionary

i think head is too big


Head IS a lil bit too big for human. Human's head is 1/7th from all body, but here...

Quote:
Thanks!
Hopefully more people will become interested and help out.


And... I could try... If I will learn, how to make those files...

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TrangOul
TrangOul


Known Hero
Lord of Darkness
posted February 28, 2006 12:29 AM

I think Roman town doesn't fit to MM world, but your graphic is great.
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Mr48
Mr48


Adventuring Hero
Legatus Legionis
posted February 28, 2006 02:24 AM
Edited by Mr48 on 27 Feb 2006

"I might be able to do some animations for you, perhaps, if you so wish."

"And... I could try... If I will learn, how to make those files..."

Our army grows! Muahaaha

Welcome to the Legion! Now we just need to get someone experienced in H3 modding to join

And I guess we could adjust the head too lol.

"I think Roman town doesn't fit to MM world, but your graphic is great."

Thanks!
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If it wasn't for the last minute, nothing would ever get done.

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HELL_Deamon
HELL_Deamon


Known Hero
Shadow of death
posted February 28, 2006 07:57 PM
Edited by HELL_Deamon on 28 Feb 2006

Quote:
Here: I slapped together a legionary

maybi legionary should look like this:
[IMG]
it is only a model ,so if what dont laugh too loud
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