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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Why does HOMM5 send encrypted data to UBI?
Thread: Why does HOMM5 send encrypted data to UBI? [ This thread is 2 pages long: 1 (2) ]
OOPMan
OOPMan


Adventuring Hero
posted June 20, 2006 05:27 PM

Woah, sorry if I came across as a little insulting. I can be a little vigorous when I feel strongly about something...

As for degrees in Computer Science, pretty much every one has one of those now.

Yes, me included actually...

;-)

On a more serious note. The right or the wrong of it is all well and good, but at the end of the day if your house isn't secure someone is damn well going to sneak into it. You can moan at said person about right and wrong until you go blue in the face but they'll probably just ignore you. The kind of people who sneak into houses are not generally very concerned with the morality of their actions, after all.

Complaining to the police is not "crying like a child". Crying like a child involves posting frantic squeals onto a forum about "invasion of privacy" but not actually reporting the problem to the relevant authorities. If you have an invasion of privacy problem that is internet related and you can't be bothered to handle the security yourself then feel free to contact the police and anyone who'll listen.

Keep in mind, however, that the police and relevant bodies are:
A) Busy
B) Beuaracratic
And thus may take a fair bit of time to do something, if anything at all, about the problem.

Which is why it makes sense for one to handle one's own security and resort to secondary bodies that deal with large numbers of complaints from a variety of people as secondary measure, although a parallel secondary measure, as opposed to a "My primary measure has failed, time to fall back on the secondary one".

I'm not disagreeing that invasion of privacy is a problem. However, the internet is a big place and the world outside of it also pretty busy. Spammers and dataminers are all over the place the official resources that exist to deal with them are largely underpowered and ineffective.

What I do have something of a problem with is the manner in which some people approach the relatively low-level problem presented by this case (That of the sendstats.exe program). Some people are acting like it's a huge conspiracy by Ubi to steal everything and anything they can possible get their hands on. I have to wonder how said people manage to avoid having a heart attack when they think about all the "private" information organisations suchs as banks and other rather more financially power institutions are keeping tabs on.

Data mining is an issue. Conspriacy mongering is silly.

Complaining to the police is not whining. It's sensible.

Protecting yourself, however, is even more sensible...
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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted June 20, 2006 05:43 PM
Edited by Gus at 17:47, 20 Jun 2006.

Quote:
As for degrees in Computer Science, pretty much every one has one of those now.

judging from the demand of people needing help to manage their computers, judging from the stupid and inaccurate things reported by the media and repeated by people who don't know anything about it, i'd say that it's quite an inaccurate comment. And i wasn't saying that to show off, just to tell you that i'm not a newbie, i don't believe that someone can hack my password as they do in movies. Besides, i'm not american and don't believe in a conspiracy theory.

Quote:
On a more serious note. The right or the wrong of it is all well and good, but at the end of the day if your house isn't secure someone is damn well going to sneak into it. You can moan at said person about right and wrong until you go blue in the face but they'll probably just ignore you. The kind of people who sneak into houses are not generally very concerned with the morality of their actions, after all.

Of course, but i'm not talking about complaining to them, here. I'm talking about trying to fight it, and to point it. And, i'm trying to tell people that they should stop saying "protect your house" when you say "thievery's becoming a problem and we should all think about it and not shrug the problem off".
YOU, and a couple others are the ones who say "if thieves can get in, it's your fault". And that's wrong, and that's dangerous. If a girl gets raped, it's not her fault, ever, ven if she gets out naked. Now, i wouldn't let my daughter get out with a skirt before she's 18 (i'm willingly exagerating here ^^), but that doesn't mean she shouldn't have the right to do so without fear.
That's the same here: what they do is bad, and saying "what they do is bad" should not meet insults and comments like "deal with it or shut up".

Quote:
Complaining to the police is not "crying like a child". Crying like a child involves posting frantic squeals onto a forum about "invasion of privacy" but not actually reporting the problem to the relevant authorities.

i believe that part of the "relevant authorities" in this matter are the people who are concerned by this problem, and that would be the customers, people who bought this game. So by saying this on this forum (and others), we're doing precisely what you say we should be doing, and that is warning the people about what's happening, and why it's bad.

Quote:
If you have an invasion of privacy problem that is internet related and you can't be bothered to handle the security yourself

once again, it's not about what i can or should do. It's about what THEY do. Of course i can spend hours cleaning my mailbox, but does that mean Spam is alright? Does that mean that posting "Spam is bad, we should find solutions and boycott companies who use it" is crying out like little children? I don't think so. Maybe you do, but i'm sure most people disagree.

Quote:
Which is why it makes sense for one to handle one's own security and resort to secondary bodies that deal with large numbers of complaints from a variety of people as secondary measure, although a parallel secondary measure, as opposed to a "My primary measure has failed, time to fall back on the secondary one".

once again, the fact that i protect my computer or my house doesn't mean i should not report thieves to the police, or warn my neighbours that there are thieves in the area and that we should watch out each other's houses. Or, in our case, posting in a gamers' forum to warn them that there's a spyware embedded in the game.

Quote:
I'm not disagreeing that invasion of privacy is a problem. However, the internet is a big place and the world outside of it also pretty busy. Spammers and dataminers are all over the place the official resources that exist to deal with them are largely underpowered and ineffective.

and do you think it's good? I know as well as you do that the authorities are ineffective, but:
- this does not mean we should accept it and do nothing, otherwise things won't ever change
- since the authorities are inefficient, we need to tell each other what's going on, and that's the point of the messages in this thread.

Quote:
Data mining is an issue. Conspriacy mongering is silly.

please find who is talking about conspiracies, apart from you and the other guys who criticize this thread? no one.
I don't think it's any "conspiracy". I think it's a company getting data (which probably isn't private or important, but we can't know for sure) behind our backs (which is rude and probably illegal in most countries too). That's bad, and people should not accept that. Just because your car was stolen doesn't mean you should accept that your wallet gets stolen too.

EDIT: sorry for the long post and many quotes, but i think it's needed so that the "debate" (or discussion) doesn't get too messy... that way, we can answer precisely to the various points.
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OOPMan
OOPMan


Adventuring Hero
posted June 20, 2006 08:49 PM
Edited by OOPMan at 20:50, 20 Jun 2006.

Quote:
judging from the demand of people needing help to manage their computers, judging from the stupid and inaccurate things reported by the media and repeated by people who don't know anything about it, i'd say that it's quite an inaccurate comment. And i wasn't saying that to show off, just to tell you that i'm not a newbie, i don't believe that someone can hack my password as they do in movies. Besides, i'm not american and don't believe in a conspiracy theory.


People with computer science degrees are not, however, in the business of really helping people with their computers. They're usually more involved in the development of software. However, the comment is not inaccurate. Computer Science degree programmes are experiencing strong gains in the number of inbound students, although a large portion drop after the first year (Hopefully because they realise that software development is not for them...). Anyway, as long as you weren't sayint it to show off, that's all good. Unfortunately a CSC degree alone is not proof that someone is not a newbie. Given you're general forum rank and the quality of your posts, however, I can determine that you are, indeed, not a n00b. Unfortunately it's not only people from the USA that believe in conspiracies...

Quote:
Of course, but i'm not talking about complaining to them, here. I'm talking about trying to fight it, and to point it. And, i'm trying to tell people that they should stop saying "protect your house" when you say "thievery's becoming a problem and we should all think about it and not shrug the problem off".
YOU, and a couple others are the ones who say "if thieves can get in, it's your fault". And that's wrong, and that's dangerous. If a girl gets raped, it's not her fault, ever, ven if she gets out naked. Now, i wouldn't let my daughter get out with a skirt before she's 18 (i'm willingly exagerating here ^^), but that doesn't mean she shouldn't have the right to do so without fear.
That's the same here: what they do is bad, and saying "what they do is bad" should not meet insults and comments like "deal with it or shut up".


I think comparing internet data mining to rape is a little overly dramatic, don't you. I agree with you that people shouldn't just sit by and let either occur, but the means of "fighting back" as you put it, differ, given that the internet isn't quite the same as the real world.

When it comes to internet security users are, in part, at fault. Many of them happen to be highly ignorant of the security threats posed by malware and the like and thus don't make use of any kind of protective software.

The ignorance, however, is not necessarily their fault. Some people are ignorant because they're extremely new to computers, others are ignorant of the risks because they haven't taken any kind of interest in the situation with regards to security.

I find your statement that "YOU, and a couple others are the ones who say "if thieves can get in, it's your fault". And that's wrong, and that's dangerous. If a girl gets raped, it's not her fault, ever, ven if she gets out naked." to be rather general and tactless. Coming from South Africa, a country with an extremely high crime rate, especially in terms of rape, I'm quite aware that one does not lay the blame for the rape of a women on said women. When I stated that your data-mining/rape analogy was dubious, this is what I was talking about. The comparison is flawed in a number of ways and while it does make some valid points it does them in a rather tasteless fashion...

Sure, your girl most certainly has the right to walk about without fear of rape. However, the question you have to ask is how you're going to enforce that? Because if you try to ensure that that right is not violated in a stringent fashion you're going to end up stepping on other people's rights. And even if you do do your best to enforce said rights, in the end there are still going to be some people who will try and violate said rights. Ultimately, as they say, "Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom". An uttery cheesy line, but quite appropriate...

Now we could say the same about internet security and data-mining, but there are some problems. For a start, the internet is not bound as much by national boundaries and laws as the real world. Thus the question arises as to who decides what rights internet users have. The users? Sure, that's not a bad idea. But keep in mind that the data miners are also internet users and thus have say. Also one has to wonder who would be tasked with enforcing said rights?

The overall point is that the internet is a rather different place from the real world. What works in one might well not work in the other. And let's be honest, whether the real world works well as a whole different argument all-together...

At the moment it's easier and more sensible to protect yourself on the internet than it is to rely on some mythical right to data-mining free internet usage.

In the real world such a "protect yourself, others won't do it for you" attitude is rather right-wing. On the internet it's just good sense and intelligent user policy.

Quote:

i believe that part of the "relevant authorities" in this matter are the people who are concerned by this problem, and that would be the customers, people who bought this game. So by saying this on this forum (and others), we're doing precisely what you say we should be doing, and that is warning the people about what's happening, and why it's bad.


Presenting yourself as a relevant authrity is somewhat dubious, but ultimately valid. After all, you do have authority over your own PC system, which is what's at risk. However, there is a difference between posting an informative topic dealing with:
A) The details of the data-mining problem
B) Means of dealing with said problem

and posting a topic dealingf with:
A) The details of the data-mining problem
B) Moaning about data-mining, information theft and other such things when as it has clearly been stated, the EULA for this game, which you the user quite happily okayed but probably didn't read through, has stated that this may occur.

So far there's been a lot of "Ubi, stop stealing my top secret info" and not much "10 Easy ways to stop Ubi from stealing you're info...)" There have been complaints that the data is encrypted. Would people prefer that it not be encrypted? Another thing people have been raising is the issue of information ownership. Once again, this is a topic that is largely extraneous when posting in a topic that is attempting to:
A) The details of the data-mining problem
B) Means of dealing with said problem

Information ownership is an entirely different issue and very contentious in its own right. Does one really own said information? Can one prove said ownership?

The point I'm making is that this topic hasn't done much to deal with the aims which you state it has. Therefore, could I be blamed for assuming that the topic is functioning on a somewhat different premise?

Quote:
once again, it's not about what i can or should do. It's about what THEY do. Of course i can spend hours cleaning my mailbox, but does that mean Spam is alright? Does that mean that posting "Spam is bad, we should find solutions and boycott companies who use it" is crying out like little children? I don't think so. Maybe you do, but i'm sure most people disagree.


Unfortunately you're a little wrong here. It takes two to tango. You shouldn't have to clean your mailbox for hours, no. But keep in mind that if you browsed a little more responsibly then you wouldn't have to clean your mailbox for hours, period. Spam is bad, yes, but attempting to boycott the companies that use it will probably have little effect. Why, because getting a good boycott going is difficult. The increased anonymity provuded by the internet makes it even more so. And if boycotting the spammers means not by that penis enlarger, well, you probably weren't going to do that anyway, where you?

The situation on the internet is such that responsible browsing with a dash of intelligent use goes much much further in defeating problems such as spam than complaint emails, non-functional boycotts. This is most likely due to the fact that the net is a lot less regulated than the outside world, and thus methods that take advantage of certain structucal elements of the real world are less likely to succeed...

Quote:
once again, the fact that i protect my computer or my house doesn't mean i should not report thieves to the police, or warn my neighbours that there are thieves in the area and that we should watch out each other's houses. Or, in our case, posting in a gamers' forum to warn them that there's a spyware embedded in the game.


And here we get to that point I raised before? Who are the "internet police". Internet users share some of the responsibilities, but only on a level local to their own computer systems. You can report the thieves to other users, yes, but it's unlikely many of them will take time out of their lives to deal with problems outside of their domain (Ie, their own systems). Finally, how exactly does one watch one another's houses on the internet? I'm sure some kind of malware backdoor system access software could be used for this purpose, but would you really want every other heroes user out there to have access to your system simply in order for them keep an eye out for data-mining software? Probably not...

Quote:
and do you think it's good? I know as well as you do that the authorities are ineffective, but:
- this does not mean we should accept it and do nothing, otherwise things won't ever change
- since the authorities are inefficient, we need to tell each other what's going on, and that's the point of the messages in this thread.


Indeed, one should not accept it. However, let's examine the possibiliities:

1: We get all Heroes users to email Ubi about this and force them to somehow unwrap the sendstats.exe program := Difficulty - Hard
Ubi are a big company and Heroes V is probably not their most important concern, given it's relatively niche audience. Furthermore, they could claim that unwrapping this module is difficult for them to do and administer.

2: We get all Heroes users to install ZoneAlaram and block the program. := Difficulty - Moderate
You don't have to fight a large corporation that doesn't really care. Instead, you just get people to download a fairly small piece of software and see to the problem themselves. The effect is the same and you cut Ubi out of the deal entirely...

Option 2 sounds like a more viable solution to me, since you're only dealing with the users, who aren't that keen on stat tracking anyway. Also, as a bonus, those users who do want Ubi to track their stats are  still able to do so, whereas with option 1 you might end up stepping on the toes of a very small minority of users...

Quote:
I don't think it's any "conspiracy". I think it's a company getting data (which probably isn't private or important, but we can't know for sure) behind our backs (which is rude and probably illegal in most countries too). That's bad, and people should not accept that. Just because your car was stolen doesn't mean you should accept that your wallet gets stolen too.


Since the data-mining policy is stated openly in the EULA, albeit in legalese, it is not "behind our backs". Rather, it's on our the borders of our vision, where we tend not to look too hard.

People shouldn't accept such things, no, but they should also realise that there's a lot more they can do to remedy the problem then emailing Ubi and hoping that they'll listen...

Quote:
EDIT: sorry for the long post and many quotes, but i think it's needed so that the "debate" (or discussion) doesn't get too messy... that way, we can answer precisely to the various points.


Seems like a good idea to me...
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B0rsuk
B0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted June 20, 2006 09:14 PM

This is NOT paranoid.

Why do you think spyware exists ? Why do they bother getting information about you ? So they can kidnap your cat and sacrifice it to dark gods ?
No, because information has a price. People, especially spammers, pay a lot of money for personal data.

As the information is encrypted, there's no way to verify Ubi's claims. And am I the only one to remember Sony's rootkit ? By the way, don't forget Ubi originally planned to use Starforce, and H5 beta is said to use it. On top of it pikachu from Ubi kept saying all criticism of Starforce is ungrounded.

I would feel very uneasy playing a game which sends a lot of info without valid reason. Can you even turn it off ? They could base balance statistics on results of multiplayer games, units used in them  etc.

I may not have a degree in IT/CS, but I will have it a year from now. And not some kind of microsoft-funded now-click-left-mouse-button type of studies.
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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted June 20, 2006 09:14 PM

Okay, a lot of things you say are sensible, even though i do not necessarily agree with you. I would like to say, though, that i appreciate the debate, find it interesting, and think it's much better and much more constructive than how it started (not talking about you here).

Also, i want to apologize for my "tactless" example. I do not find it tactless myself, and did not use it to shock you, but i admit it can be. i should have thought about it and not used it, so i'm sorry about that.

Now, finally, to the point! =) I won't quote the whole thing, because i think we both delivered our arguments, i just want to make some points a little clearer:
- i agree users should protect themselves. I regularly shout at people who take down their firewall "because online play won't work otherwise". I have to call on all my patience to explain nicely that it is precisely when they're online that a firewall is vital.
BUT (you felt that one coming didn't you? ) I think that, _in addition_ to the means of protecting your system, we (meaning, users of any kind and of any software/service) should not tolerate various abuses, and make ourselves heard when we think something's bad.
- the EULA thing is a joke. Quickly why:
1) the EULA refers to a webpage, which can change at anytime, and last i checked, it only covered the data collected through ubi's websites, not through the game.
2) everything written in a EULA is not necessarily legal. As someone else put it, if there's written "you hereby give possession of your car to Ubisoft", this does not grant Ubi your car.
- for the spamming bit... I get spam to e-mail addresses i have given no-one, nor, of course, used on porn sites (since i believe that's what you meant ^^). The problem with spaw now is that you don't need to put your e-mail anywhere to have it spammed. Just a parenthesis, that's another issue entirely =) But once again, while i agree and urge people to surf intelligently, ultimately it's important that people realize the problem, and that we all work together to find a solution. Or at least, "spread the word".
- Last, for your two solutions... Well, who said that we should not use a firewall anyway? BUT, just because we use one, we should NOT remain silent. Ubi needs to know it's bad, people need to know they're being spied (whatever the importance of that in reality is), and they need to understand it's bad, instead of reading "it's ok, stop moaning, install a firewall and stfu". No. Install a firewall, protect yourself, because there are scums out there stealing your data, for fun or for profit.

That's it. Once again, thanks for the interesting discussion.

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OOPMan
OOPMan


Adventuring Hero
posted June 21, 2006 12:48 PM

Thanks for your reply Gus. I think in the end we probably agree on most of the points in terms of end results, but differ when it comes to methodology.

Ultimately I'm just rather cynical about contacting Ubi with regards to the problem, although I can understand that some people might well not be so despairing of Ubi's (Not to mention other publishers as well) attitude to customers.

I'm interested to read that you have so many problems with your unpublicised email addresses. I forces me to wonder whether or not certain email providers are actually selling address information to spammers, as I've had very few spam related problems myself (Maybe 20 spam mails per month for the last few years...).

I agree that EULA's are a joke for the most part. Ubi knows that most people are never going to read it, let alone understand the byzantine fashion in which it's written, so they're quite happy to put down whatever they want.

Someone mentioned StarForce as well. It's interesting to note that StarForce are not the only company to make use of a copy protection system the relies on kernel level drivers that are difficult to break into using tools like SoftICE. Compared to all the other companies, however, their protection system is actually secure enough to prevent casual copying. Interestingly, they also recieve more negative press than any of the others. Rather ironic, hmmmm?

For the record, I have used a number of StarForce games and never experienced any problems whatsover. It is also interesting to note that many people I know, when faced with StarForce, will swing towards actually buying the game, as opposed to pirating it simply because the effort of a BitTorrent download is far less than that involved with going down to the local store and purchasing a copy.

Could it be that StarForce is actually an effective copy protection system, as opposed to the "Spawn of Satan" that many people popularise it as...

Well, whatever the case may be, StarForce will probably be driven to ground by bad press within the next few years even if the accusations levelled are largely invalid...
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SuperDave9x19
SuperDave9x19


Adventuring Hero
posted June 22, 2006 01:42 PM

here is a simple solution that anyone can manage...

Play it while not connected to the internet.

Since I hear multiplayer is unplayable (dunno, don't care, I play SP) why stay connected?

That's better than a firewall. But on the flip side, the 1 in 5 times my game stutters it may be because of this issue.  But when it does stutters, i exit and return and it's done.

In summary

1.  Silly as EULAs are to read, and no matter how tough they must be to enforce, we do agree to it upon installation and there is something about collecting information in the EULA.  Therefore we give them permission to collect data.  And they don't even specify what data they can collect.  So you essentially give them permission to collect any data on the PC.  Man we gamers ALL MUST BE DUMB.

So.

2.  They have the right to collect it.

Plus.

3.  They cannot collect this information when you are not connected to the internet.

So.

4.  don't play while connected if this is a concern to you.
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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted June 22, 2006 01:56 PM

*sigh* here we go again...

Quote:
here is a simple solution that anyone can manage...

Play it while not connected to the internet.

but that's not a solution. Where is it written you should not be connected to the internet if you don't want to get hacked by the game you bought?

Quote:
Since I hear multiplayer is unplayable (dunno, don't care, I play SP) why stay connected?

for a number of reasons: listen to a webradio, instant messaging, etc.

Quote:
1.  Silly as EULAs are to read, and no matter how tough they must be to enforce, we do agree to it upon installation and there is something about collecting information in the EULA.

Wrong. There is something about accepting that they use the info you enter on their websites, nothing about data collected by the game.

Quote:
Therefore we give them permission to collect data.

no we did not, see above.

Quote:
And they don't even specify what data they can collect.

the one you enter in their websites, see above.

Quote:
So you essentially give them permission to collect any data on the PC.  Man we gamers ALL MUST BE DUMB.

no, some of us try to explain to the dumb ones that what they do is illegal.

Quote:
2.  They have the right to collect it.

well, no =)


Quote:
3.  They cannot collect this information when you are not connected to the internet.

So.

4.  don't play while connected if this is a concern to you.

bad answer. When a company screws you up, the answer is not "i should restrain myself from doing things" but "let's fight against what the company tries to make me do".
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ostadosmo
ostadosmo

Tavern Dweller
posted June 23, 2006 09:31 AM

so many words, so less solutions

disable your network! having connection to internet is not a requirement . I always do that and it's simple (right-click the network icon in the tray -> disable)

OR

if you can't be arsed to do that you can create a user called "Gamer" or whatever, restrict it's connection to the internet but allow use of programs

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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted June 23, 2006 11:28 AM

Quote:
so many words, so less solutions

disable your network! having connection to internet is not a requirement . I always do that and it's simple (right-click the network icon in the tray -> disable)

OR

if you can't be arsed to do that you can create a user called "Gamer" or whatever, restrict it's connection to the internet but allow use of programs


have you even READ what was written before, before posting this...?
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OOPMan
OOPMan


Adventuring Hero
posted June 23, 2006 01:13 PM

So many words, so less grammer ;-)

Disabling one's internet is not ideal...

It's similar to disconnecting one's optical drives in order to play a pirate StarForce game, if you understand the analogy?

I'd prefer to keep my internat active while playing H5. Assuming I'm on a broadband connection that is (Still not a reality in large parts of the world, I'm afairad...)
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ostadosmo
ostadosmo

Tavern Dweller
posted June 23, 2006 03:19 PM

Quote:
Quote:
so many words, so less solutions

disable your network! having connection to internet is not a requirement . I always do that and it's simple (right-click the network icon in the tray -> disable)

OR

if you can't be arsed to do that you can create a user called "Gamer" or whatever, restrict it's connection to the internet but allow use of programs


have you even READ what was written before, before posting this...?


Yes, and I din't see a solution. I saw more or less mediocre (and not so mediocre!) speculations about various conspiracies going on in the world. This being the forum for discussing a game I can't see how that relates really. A security board would be more appropriate don't you think?

In the end you just got to learn to live with it. It's the way the world works.

For those who can't live without being online - you can always grab a crap machine just for the internet, connect the main computer only for updates.

As for the Starforce analogy - oh please. EVERY program/game nowadays has the option to turn on automatic updates and/or log reporting agents - which would eventually be considered by some as spyware, and they just got the ball rolling. The thing I do wholeheartedly agree upon is why didn't they include an option to disable the thing.

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ostadosmo
ostadosmo

Tavern Dweller
posted June 23, 2006 03:30 PM

Quote:
So many words, so less grammer ;-)
It's similar to disconnecting one's optical drives in order to play a pirate StarForce game, if you understand the analogy?



Lol. I just saw you were relating it to Starforce VS piracy war. while in truth there only exists the Starforce&Piracy VS Honest Gamer war.

I just don't like the insecurity of the whole internet thing, and I surely don't like the Microsoft's network protocols, anti-virus and anti-spyware programs especially firewalls wasting my valuable RAM and CPU while playing. not into long sessions of chatting. so I'm offline as long as I can.

Online gaming is another thing but carrying saves to the local Netcafe is a far better solution IMHO.

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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted June 23, 2006 03:59 PM

Quote:
Yes, and I din't see a solution. I saw more or less mediocre (and not so mediocre!) speculations about various conspiracies going on in the world. This being the forum for discussing a game I can't see how that relates really. A security board would be more appropriate don't you think?

that's a joke right? the spyware is in the game this forum is dedicated to. hence we're talking about it. get it, or do i need to draw a picture?
as for the conspiracy thing, if you read again, you'll notice this was only brought up by people who don't like us talking about the spyware in the game. to sum up:
us: there's a spyware.
nay-sayers: stop talking about a conspiracy lol !!!11!!1!
us: but we never talked about a conspiracy, we're just saying there's a spyware in the game, that's all.
nay-sayers: stop talking about a conspiracy !!!1!11!!
us: errr... ok, right, just leave please.

Quote:
In the end you just got to learn to live with it. It's the way the world works.

some of us are not amoebae, you know? Act like a lemming if you please, but don't try and tell us it's THE way to act.

Quote:
For those who can't live without being online - you can always grab a crap machine just for the internet, connect the main computer only for updates.

and why exactly should we prefer this solution to just demanding that companies don't put crap in stuff we pay for?

Quote:
EVERY program/game nowadays has the option to turn on automatic updates and/or log reporting agents - which would eventually be considered by some as spyware, and they just got the ball rolling. The thing I do wholeheartedly agree upon is why didn't they include an option to disable the thing.

It's not spyware if you're aware it is in, can check the content it sends, and can disable it. In the case of HoMMV, none of these three criteria are fulfilled.
Oh, and just because some companies and some software do "bad" things, then we should accept that the others do the same? Seriously, what kind of will do you have as a person? Don't you ever fight against what you think's bad? I'm baffled at the thought. I can understand that some of you don't care to be spied on, but i can't understand that you guys say "it's the way it is" without trying to do something... survival instinct vanished?
____________
If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.

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ostadosmo
ostadosmo

Tavern Dweller
posted June 23, 2006 04:47 PM
Edited by ostadosmo at 17:06, 23 Jun 2006.

Quote:
that's a joke right? the spyware is in the game this forum is dedicated to. hence we're talking about it. get it, or do i need to draw a picture?
as for the conspiracy thing, if you read again, you'll notice this was only brought up by people who don't like us talking about the spyware in the game. to sum up:
us: there's a spyware.
nay-sayers: stop talking about a conspiracy lol !!!11!!1!
us: but we never talked about a conspiracy, we're just saying there's a spyware in the game, that's all.
nay-sayers: stop talking about a conspiracy !!!1!11!!
us: errr... ok, right, just leave please.

er, ok. my bad. I wasn't really paying attention to the characters of the story, the 'who said what'

Quote:
some of us are not amoebae, you know? Act like a lemming if you please, but don't try and tell us it's THE way to act.


I'm not, you gotta take my point of view here. I just don't have the time anymore to fight off the whole onslaught of spyware, adware and whatnot my parents and whoever sat at my computer conjure up. It's the reason I bought them a crap setup and keep my computer password protected and offline when I don't need it.

Quote:
and why exactly should we prefer this solution to just demanding that companies don't put crap in stuff we pay for?


I agree. but it's a fight you can never win. I am 100% sure they use tracking software to know what is the amount of illegal games being used, when, where, by who etc. so they can work on strategies of fighting future illegal uses of their software, which you already know. I am sure they won't give up their ways easily. but they have the upper hand- they're selling and we're buying

Quote:
Oh, and just because some companies and some software do "bad" things, then we should accept that the others do the same? Seriously, what kind of will do you have as a person? Don't you ever fight against what you think's bad? I'm baffled at the thought. I can understand that some of you don't care to be spied on, but i can't understand that you guys say "it's the way it is" without trying to do something... survival instinct vanished?


in fact, it's the other way around my friend. I am surely ahead as they cannot drain anything from me - I am NOT online. you on the other hand, are online and you're pissed about it.

ok seriously, how CAN you fight it? other than by not playing the game (not a chance). show me a meaningful way and I'll follow, make no mistake
____________

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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted June 23, 2006 05:17 PM

once again, and fo the last time i hope, i'm not saying that using a firewall or even working offline is not a solution. BUT that doesn't mean you should accept it as a PERFECT solution.
I use a firewall because there's snow all over the internet. Should i accept it? no. What can i do about it? Alone, not much, but by dragging the attention of people, making them aware, and so on, we might. For the game, can i do anything about the fact that Ubi puts a spyware in it? No. Can i draw the attention of the gamers with threads such as this one, so they can tell Ubi how they don't want to be spied upon? Yeah, i can, that's what i am doing, and that's what the guy who started the thread is doing, and that's what plenty of us are doing on Ubi's main forum.
Seriously, every person i see who come here and say "just get offline and voilà", after a bit of discussion, admits that they agree but don't know what to do, or simply don't want to do anything because "that's the way it is". At least, let us idealists try to change things (especially small things like that), without coming here with a witty (or not) remark about how we "just need to get offline, n00b".
____________
If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.

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SuperDave9x19
SuperDave9x19


Adventuring Hero
posted June 26, 2006 04:05 PM

Quote:
once again, and fo the last time i hope, i'm not saying that using a firewall or even working offline is not a solution. BUT that doesn't mean you should accept it as a PERFECT solution.


After 40 years on this Earth, I have learned one thing is absolute.

the world isn't perfect.
____________
I am Dave.
Dave I am.

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Andmcmuffin2
Andmcmuffin2


Hired Hero
In need of Undead Avatar
posted June 27, 2006 05:54 PM

I believe that is encrypted so that it CANNOT be pirated. Only Ubisoft knows how to decrypt it, and they seem to change the encryption with every patch for every game. If you still don't like it- WRITE A PETITION!
____________
The wraith is reserved?!?! NOOOO I'M NOT GOING TO BE PINK AND UNDEAD!

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rumagent
rumagent

Tavern Dweller
posted June 27, 2006 09:12 PM

Quote:
I believe that is encrypted so that it CANNOT be pirated. Only Ubisoft knows how to decrypt it, and they seem to change the encryption with every patch for every game. If you still don't like it- WRITE A PETITION!


No offence, but clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. First of all, why would you want to pirate the information about you, your game, your pc or whatever sent to UBI? You have that information to begin wit. Secondly, why would you be unable to “pirate” this information (other than no one giving a snow)?

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