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| Thread: Why can't Wraiths Fly? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted June 21, 2006 12:24 AM |
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Quote:
Breaking News
I just found out and I wanted to share it with you: wraiths/wights can fly
....the only thing is they only fly 5mm above the ground 
Except that that's called floating... 
Anyway, I don't really see why Wraiths are underpowered... Undead means they're immune to all mind spells and negative morale and are permanently raised by the Raise Dead spell, they can dispel all positive enchantments on a creature, and have the highest attack and base damage rating of all the lvl. 6 creatures. And contrary to Rakshasa's, Treants and Pit Lords they actually boast a decent initiative so they can act more than once a year (although in the case of the Rakshasa it can be fixed with initiative boosting mini artifacts and Dash). Sure, I'd also have liked Vorpal Blade on them (fits them better too IMO) but we can't have everything right? 
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detheroc
Adventuring Hero
noticed my 2 weeks miss?
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posted June 21, 2006 12:26 AM |
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right...well treants may take very less damage, but it is their infernaly low initiative that's killing me, i think that they had a turn in only about 5% when i used them against neutrals(and some were quite strong) and vs computer players i use them more as bait, cause the hero and shooters will very likely attack those treants.So now i take with me only about 5 or so when attacking the enemy base(presuming it's a game with industrial numbers for units, like 1000 angels )and the rest stay in the castle for defense, and they are quite good at it: if an enemy attacks with a medium size army, and i recruit ,like all the creatures from a week, he'll attack my treants, do little harm, thus wasting his turns and turning the balance definetly on my side, if there was a doubt at the beginning.So, okay, you like treants for their great HP and defense, but i think that they are to be given a secondary role in your armies.
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted June 21, 2006 01:17 AM |
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Once again, they don't need to attack often. Once to get in position to bind the creature you want, and another time to Defend so you get the bonus. And that's it.
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If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
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M4Carbine
Hired Hero
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posted June 21, 2006 06:17 AM |
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I have to agree that wraiths should be able to fly, however there is a special rule in HoMM, a town has to have at least one range unit and can't exceed 3, a town must have at least one flyng unit, and can't exceed 3.
Necropolis has three, ghosts, vampires, and bone dragons, therefore poor wraith has to suffer a penalty.
Anyhow, how does harms touch work, becuase nothing happens when i attack with my wariths
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 21, 2006 08:59 AM |
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Quote:
I have to agree that wraiths should be able to fly, however there is a special rule in HoMM, a town has to have at least one range unit and can't exceed 3, a town must have at least one flyng unit, and can't exceed 3.
Necropolis has three, ghosts, vampires, and bone dragons, therefore poor wraith has to suffer a penalty.
Anyhow, how does harms touch work, becuase nothing happens when i attack with my wariths
Veeeeery good point. That's exactly the problem: Ballancing. Necropolis can't have 4 flying units, that's simply too much of an advantage, and having a level 6 and level 7 flying offensive unit would also be quite unballanced.
What would make sense would be to give the Spectral Dragon the Incorporeal ability, boost it's damage and initiative and speed, and decrease it's growth to the usual 2 per week. After all, it is a Spectral dragon, so why should it be any less incorporeal than the Spectre?
And providing the Wraiht with the Death Tough ability that'll kill 10 % of Wraith numbers would actually make it an excellent and very dangerous enemy without being overly powerfull - after all, it has got low maneuverability, and a slow spell on the Wraith makes it quite vulnerable.
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dux
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 21, 2006 09:54 AM |
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I've been a great Necropolis fan in H3 and I also do now, in H5. I totally agree with giving Incorporeal to Spectral Dragon - after all, its HP are ridiculously low, and fighting against Haven, for example (high initiative for Archangel, Champions and Griffins) put them down in first round, at equal heroes.
By the way, is this H5 only for playing campaigns? Because playing multiplayer (hot seat or LAN) gives you the sensation that the factions are very unbalanced. Try Academy vs. everything else and, at equal number of towns and same heroes level, it don't stand a chance of winning. It is a problem with the way heroes grow up. At lv. 25-26, a wizard (without artifacts) is something 4 attack, 5 defence, 9-10 spellpower and 12-14 knowledge. At the same level, a knight is 15:14:2:2. Giving the initiative and the special abilities of the Haven main creatures and the low attack-defence of the wizard, after the first round the Academy remains with almost nothing on the field. Some will say that the wizard consists in magic and spellpower, but after the first moves of the opponent, there is almost nothing to cast a spell on. And to use destructive spells is hopeless.
For those talking about the usefullness of the Treant - sorry, I disagree. They are quite ok if you fight neutrals or the AI; but against another human player, the situation is diferrent. Supose you play against Dungeon or Haven, or even Necropolis. Usually, after the first two round, there will be only the treants standing against what's left of the enemy army (quite substantial, if I may say). Giving the ridiculous damage of the treants, with all their huge HP, they won't last much.
So, I think H5 has a huge problem - the way the heroes grow! In H3, each faction's heroes grew unevenly until level 10-15, and then evenly on all skills. In H5, they grow mainly on two primary skills, diferrent for each faction. You may encounter a warlock at lv. 25 looking something like 15 attack 0 defence, which is quite stupid. And playing Academy is horror - those heroes have a great difficulty in taking logistics, so they don't move. Consequently, less fights, less development, less experience = smaller heroes. And they take almost all the points on knowledge!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe this flaw can be solved with better maps - maps having all those colisseums, mercenary camps, marletto towers and academies that can help you obtain a well balanced hero, as in H3. 15 attack is no good if defence is nul, and all the magic power in the world cannot help when your attack efence is 4:5 against a hero 16:14 or more.
And I come back to the main topic - yes, Wraiths should fly and yes, definitely, Spectral Dragon should be Incorporeal. Only then there will be a good chance of somebody beating the hell out of the immense power of Haven.
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Dux of Transylvania
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law558
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 21, 2006 11:15 AM |
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Quote:
I have to agree that wraiths should be able to fly, however there is a special rule in HoMM, a town has to have at least one range unit and can't exceed 3, a town must have at least one flyng unit, and can't exceed 3.
Necropolis has three, ghosts, vampires, and bone dragons, therefore poor wraith has to suffer a penalty.
Anyhow, how does harms touch work, becuase nothing happens when i attack with my wariths
I see your point. I think to fix this one of two things should be done.
Either the wraith's animation should be on the ground and not floating on a cloud of gas, or the wraith should be given a pass through wall ability that wastes a turn so it's not overpowered.
Harm touch must be selected (where the spellbook icon is), and can only be selected when a enemy is within the wraith's moving distance.
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Fuzzier
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 21, 2006 05:02 PM |
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Quote:
Either the wraith's animation should be on the ground and not floating on a cloud of gas, or the wraith should be given a pass through wall ability that wastes a turn so it's not overpowered.
Harm touch must be selected (where the spellbook icon is), and can only be selected when a enemy is within the wraith's moving distance.
Now I see why you said Wraiths should be flyer --- they are floating...
This is too straight forward to be of any persuasion. Wraiths are floating, simply because that they have no legs or feet. But does that necessarily result in the ability to fly? I doubt it. And I don't agree to replace their animation.
Balance is the most important thing to maintain. M4Carbine
already pointed out that Necroplis already has 3 flyers. Thanatos has good points too.
Necroplis is never a weak faction. They can't have everything, right?
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law558
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 21, 2006 05:08 PM |
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Quote:
Now I see why you said Wraiths should be flyer --- they are floating...
This is too straight forward to be of any persuasion. Wraiths are floating, simply because that they have no legs or feet. But does that necessarily result in the ability to fly? I doubt it. And I don't agree to replace their animation.
Balance is the most important thing to maintain. M4Carbine
already pointed out that Necroplis already has 3 flyers. Thanatos has good points too.
Necroplis is never a weak faction. They can't have everything, right?
I could agree with you, but the ghosts also float since they have no legs or feet, yet they have the flight ability, while the wraiths don't. It doesn't make sense.
If the ghosts can float over walls, the wraiths should be able to too.
Either both should have the flight ability, or neither.
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Kabukiman
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 21, 2006 05:25 PM |
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Very easy answer actually. Wraiths can't fly because they got this huge and heavy scythe. If they would drop it they probably would be able to fly reducing their damage a lot however...
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Nebukanezar
Hired Hero
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posted June 21, 2006 06:17 PM |
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Wraiths are not nearly as bad as you think they are, all right they can't fly, but their statistics are good for a level 6 creature.
I dont think the wraiths should be changed.
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silentbobus
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 21, 2006 06:32 PM |
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Wraith's can't fly because they can't think happy thoughts! They lost their magic feather...
Couldn't resist
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rojodiablo
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 21, 2006 07:04 PM |
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Wraith's Harm Touch is too specific to be of much use on most battlefields. Perhaps replacing it with a Vorpal Blade ability would be more balanced.
No flight for Wraiths, they're mobile enough already, just don't be stupid enough to get them trapped during play or in tactics mode!
Treants ARE useful, for sure. They can hold out versus levels 7's like nobody's business. Also: Rakshasas are very useful if you're fighting against them and have Puppet Master; no retal means they don't get snapped out of it :-P (I can't see much use for them on your own side though, despite their o.k growth and good overall stats; their Dash is a bit defunct too, I find).
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted June 21, 2006 07:12 PM |
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I think that Ranis are a more-than-ok addition, if you can manage to have them strike first.
____________
If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted June 21, 2006 09:35 PM |
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Quote:
Wraith's Harm Touch is too specific to be of much use on most battlefields. Perhaps replacing it with a Vorpal Blade ability would be more balanced.
No flight for Wraiths, they're mobile enough already, just don't be stupid enough to get them trapped during play or in tactics mode!
Treants ARE useful, for sure. They can hold out versus levels 7's like nobody's business. Also: Rakshasas are very useful if you're fighting against them and have Puppet Master; no retal means they don't get snapped out of it :-P (I can't see much use for them on your own side though, despite their o.k growth and good overall stats; their Dash is a bit defunct too, I find).
You should give Rakshasa's initiative and speed boosting artifacts, with high enough Knowledge you can make an artifact powerful enough to enable them to cross the entire battlefield in a single turn.
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law558
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 21, 2006 10:46 PM |
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Edited by law558 at 22:47, 21 Jun 2006.
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No flight for Wraiths, they're mobile enough already, just don't be stupid enough to get them trapped during play or in tactics mode!
How can you call a 2 by 2 creature mobile. I've placed shooter units in the corner of the battlefield behind rock outcroppings, and a 2 by 2 can't get close to them cause theres only a one square space free beside the shooters. Now if this was real combat, no way would a bit of rock sticking out of the ground, stop a wraith or any other 2 by 2.
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted June 21, 2006 11:20 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
No flight for Wraiths, they're mobile enough already, just don't be stupid enough to get them trapped during play or in tactics mode!
How can you call a 2 by 2 creature mobile. I've placed shooter units in the corner of the battlefield behind rock outcroppings, and a 2 by 2 can't get close to them cause theres only a one square space free beside the shooters. Now if this was real combat, no way would a bit of rock sticking out of the ground, stop a wraith or any other 2 by 2.
Yeah, but flying isn't going to change any of that... all 2x2 creatures face this problem (excep the Imperial Grif who can still BD them)
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law558
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 21, 2006 11:25 PM |
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Fair enough.
The problem I have is that most of the obstacles, don't look like they could block a large creature. Why can't the wraiths, pit lords, treants etc, not walk over them to attack.
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted June 21, 2006 11:36 PM |
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Quote:
Fair enough.
The problem I have is that most of the obstacles, don't look like they could block a large creature. Why can't the wraiths, pit lords, treants etc, not walk over them to attack.
True, but that's also true for (most) 1x1 creatures... perhaps a system in which every tile of obstacle counts double for movement or something (so you use 2 movement points to cross 1 obstacle tile)?
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TGeorge
Tavern Dweller
Warlock
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posted June 22, 2006 12:52 AM |
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Maybe the Wraith should have a whole new ability: Floating..."Floating gives the Wraith the ability to walk over small obstacles like rocks, but unlike flying creatures they cannot pass over castle walls or other creatures" .
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