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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Impression theory??
Thread: Impression theory??
Korejora
Korejora

Promising

posted June 24, 2006 08:24 PM bonus applied.

Impression theory??

Consider this:

You're new in a class, workplace, team -- whatever applies to you best. You don't know anyone, but you don't have to, because right away someone steps up to the plate with a smile and introduces you to the people and places you're going to be spending your time around while you're there. You don't have any trouble adjusting because this person and some friends besides have made you feel comfortable and welcome, and have informed you on everything you need to know.

How do you feel about this person? Do you want to be friends with this person? What if this person asked you to have lunch with them or even go to an informal party with all those friends? Would you want to go?



Relationships, in real life or even online, are a series or collection of impressions. Not just the very first impression, but as much or as many impressions as you need to feel you know the person. And once you have an established impression of someone, it will affect how you interpret what they say.

Crushes are an excellent example of this. When you develop a crush on someone, everything they say is hysterical, lyrical, thought-provoking, and basically perfect. If they do something incredibly stupid, it wasn't really stupid, and it was the fault of the environment or another person, and they really meant to do it... all at the same time. And you certainly won't hear a word against them.

Grudges are the opposite. When someone makes that bad of an impression on you, you can tear apart every little word they say into a conspiracy against the greater good, or unforgivable idiocy, or suggestive of a bad nature and personality. Nothing that person says or does it right in your eyes. The exact same words from this person are entirely different coming from another person... which is true in a sense, and how grudge-bearers can justify their opinions. But with a grudge hanging over the ear hearing them, these words are invariably wrong or hurtful in some way.



Now time for question period.

Do you have any standing impressions of people? Where did they come from? This might be the first post of mine you're reading. That might mean that you think I like to make threads instead of replies, or that you think I tend to write relatively long posts that you don't want to spend time reading all the way through. On HC, there are all kinds of examples of this impression effect.

There are some where one person has established so much respect in the other's eyes that the second would agree pretty much no matter what the first said. Is this you? It's good to respect people, and that person may certainly be deserving of your respect and friendship, but are you sure you're not dissolving your own opinions and beliefs because you have put so much faith in that esteemed person?

On the other hand, there are cases where the person vexed another so deeply at some point that the latter has built a fortress used both a) to be offended and become strongly defensive at anything said by this first; b) to throw hurtful shots at the first from behind their high-built rock-hard walls of righteous indignation. Are you doing things like this, without even realizing it? Try looking back at what first made you think badly of the person in the first place. They may not even know why you dislike them so much. (You might not even know why specifically.)

Is there someone (you can leave out names if you want to ) you know you disagree with periodically and, out of aversion or even politeness, simply avoid instead of picking fights with them? Is there someone on HC (or elsewhere if you want) that you just click with, and like to quote them or tend to agree with them? Is there someone who states things so painfully obvious or silly that you can't help but make fun of them? Is there someone that you expect certain things from, such as jokes no matter how serious the topic, or seriousness no matter how ridiculous and humourous the subject? Think about it!

Also think about what others think of you. Is there someone that behaves towards you in a certain way? If you don't like that behaviour, try to think: what were the first tastes of you that person got? What part of you are they getting now? Should you change anything?

Alternatively, do you think everything I've said here is complete baloney?

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Valeriy
Valeriy

Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
posted June 27, 2006 12:30 AM

Even though I've disagreed with that view before, I've come to think that first impressions are often decisive. I've observed myself and noticed that first impressions happen very quickly - from fraction of the second to few seconds. In fact, they can start from peripheral vision! First I see the person and my mind identifies a few distinctive features that resemble something I know from the past experience - facial features, clothing, posture, movement, shape, voice. Those features have some kind of implications in my mind. During the next few seconds my mind examines the subject more closely - looking at them in more detail - to confirm or dismiss the hypothesis of the initial scan - to find supporting or contradicting evidence. Then the subject is categorised and my initial level of interest in them established - all in a few seconds or less. This all sounds very calculated and superficial, but I'm sure anyone else will find the same if they have enough awareness of their own unconcious thoughts.

Using analogy of most scanners on the PC hardware market, there's a pre-scan followed by a scan. Pre-scan identifies the most striking/prominent features in relationship to the observer's world view. The scan is already biased - it seeks to confirm/disprove the hypothesis about those features and what they mean. And just like in a scanner, when the image is obtained, there may be minor touch-ups to it, and then it is saved - filed - the subject is categorised.

The subject is assigned various values on several scales, for example how attractive they are, how confident they are, how much of a threat they are, how enjoyable an interaction with them is likely to be, etc.

Most people don't think these things, the process happens automatically and they feel the outcome, such as "that guy looks nice" or "that person doesn't look interesting", etc. Personally I'm just fascinated by decoding my own programming just like programmers are with computer code. Humans are not exactly computers, but the mind is often surprisingly predictable and runs in patterns.

Just a few thoughts for now. I didn't exactly answer the questions, it was more of a narrative
____________
You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com

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kookastar
kookastar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
posted June 29, 2006 10:53 PM
Edited by kookastar at 22:55, 29 Jun 2006.

Quote:
You're new in a class, workplace, team -- whatever applies to you best


I have worked in a lot of different jobs, and with each I gained more confidence and figured out how important these impressions can be.  The last job in hospitality I walked straight into the place smiling and talked to everyone as though I had known them my whole life  Luckily, we ended up feeling like we had and it was great from the start.  The same thing happened in my first 2 schools (teaching).  I guess I was working with like-minded people.  Lucky me

Anyway, I finally got a permanent teaching position in a school and was really excited and positive, and then realised I was joining a staffroom full of people who were not like minded.  My first impressions were pretty well indicative of how these people would be – it has been 18 months now.  I kept an open mind for the first year, but no The impressions I made were not based on the way they looked, or dressed, but by their words, actions, and body language/facial expressions.  

When I was a teenager growing up in a working class suburb, the whole judging people on how they dressed was a thorn.  We just wanted people to look below the superficial crap, so I guess I learnt to do the same.  Working in the service industry also helps to dispel some of these superficial impressions because you see so many different people, and it is often the ones who do not give a great visual impression, that leave a stronger impression on you personally.  I could tell you about the way some of these people smiled, about their pets, and parts of their lives.  All I can tell you about some of the more ‘visually impressive’ people is how good it looked seeing them walk out the door  

Not all of course, man there was this really hot doctor… *drool*  Heehee (actually there is a funny story here, might find somewhere to put it), I just mean that my first impressions are based on more than appearance.  Just because they are hot or take care of themselves doesn’t mean they are not nice either {take myself for example }

I agree how you feel about someone can definitely change your interpretation of what they say.  We tend to forgive things from those we like because they already have a bank of good will with us.  If they eventually keep doing these annoying things though, it can go bankrupt.  Same with grudges, it’s a debt that needs to be repaid before our impression will change.  (My workmates still owe me about a quarter of a million).

This is a long post, might answer some of your other questions later…

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pandora
pandora


Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
posted July 02, 2006 09:54 PM
Edited by pandora at 21:57, 02 Jul 2006.

Really nice thread

I find that in RL, I don't usually let my first impressions stick with me very long - unless they are confirmed quickly. The most interesting people to me are the ones who are nothing like what a first glance will lead you to believe - so I make a point of not reacting to my first impression.

The other reason for this, is I find that the majority of people are fake - especially on a first encounter. It's sadly pretty rare to find someone who will truly be themselves rather than put on the face they think you want to see. Then again, maybe I'm just cynical

With the example of the person at work, I would be immediately distrustful of such a person - but would probably want to go out with them for lunch or drinks or whatever to see what they were really like. I'm curious

In HC it's different though, my first impressions stick a lot longer because I never do get the reality of the person - just what they choose to show me. Plus I find that there is a lot of meaningless surface talk that really doesn't add up to much more than a pile of words in type.

You can get a lot about people from reading a lot of their posts, especially ones that are quite unrelated - but still it can be difficult to trust impressions online. Especially when you're seeing that people use multiple names to post etc.

That said, I have still had a lot of close relationships with people online. But that comes from having real conversations, not reading posts. I find too that when you make a real friend online, the connection does become something tangible. You can empathize with the way a person is feeling in the just the same way you would if you were watching their facial expressions and body language. I don't know how that happens really... but it does. Also, I have run into people online that make me feel really uncomfortable when they message me, that's quite an odd experience to be affected like that - but it happens too.

Becoming a moderator here really changed the way I interact with new people. In some ways its been rather negative, its much harder to trust people - especially when their friendly greeting has a "can I have a QP please" tacked onto the end of it. I've had several HCM conversations with people who were really nice and I enjoyed chatting with them, only to get hit with a casual mention of how annoying that floodprotect is *hint hint* and from there I go back and wonder if anything that we've ever talked about wasn't just leading to the big "can I have a star" question. Before  I took on the mod sword and shield, if I got a random message from someone it generally was because they related so something I posted, and they wanted to talk about it - and I made a lot of good online friends that way.

It's also hard that I have to watch what I say because sometimes we mods have to, and its never fun I also have to penalize things that break the CoC, even if they really do nothing to offend me personally. Of course this has nothing to do with my first impressions of members here - but it certainly effects the first impression that they have of me. This part of modding has led to a lot of uncomfortable miscommunications....
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
posted July 03, 2006 12:37 PM

Awh poor pan..
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Korejora
Korejora

Promising

posted July 16, 2006 06:30 AM

Hmm... well, I'm not sure I really expressed the right idea here.

I don't mean first impressions, important as they may be. I've found that it's not really the first impression that gets the best of me, it's after weeks or months of interacting with a person that I "decide" what they're like, and then start really acting accordingly. For some people this is a good thing. But it can definitely be a bit detrimental, too.

What I meant is more like what kookastar was talking about: it's like a bank where you can put in lots of money or take money out. Sometimes, when you feel someone owes you a lot, but they have no intention of paying it off, you start to resent that person and disagree with everything they say and, at worst, even feel inclined to do nasty things to them whenever you get the chance to. Talking about it just makes it worse sometimes, because if the person that's being vented to agrees with, the debtor becomes even more hated, and if they disagree then the person venting might feel offended, especially if they disagree strongly and start forcing the ventor to back down and justify what they're saying.

I guess one of the things I'm wondering is: Is there a good way to fix problems like that? I know I offered suggestions to people in my first post, like to think about what started it in the first place, but it makes me feel a bit hypocritical, because the people I'm on bad terms with have me so wound up about it that I know I refuse to look at things like that and just continued disliking them. And I don't like to use the excuse that I'm a moody teenager to write off feeling that way.

Oookay, getting personal here. I started the thread because I wanted to hear other people's opinions.

@Pan - I know when I read someone's post it's pretty artificial. However, I usually don't bother to keep that in mind unless I'm going to interact with them in real life or even in an instant-relay chat medium. The thing is, the artificial side is all you get to see, ever, right? It's hard to convince someone to be themselves online because they may not even think they're wearing a mask. Of course it's hard to be honest for people sometimes because they don't see the benefits there are. I know I can be very dishonest online. I like to pretend I'm an intelligent person.

I can definitely see the moderator thing being a problem. Being a moderator or administrator, like you guys always say, amplifies the ... um... artificiality(?) of the way people act towards you by a lot, eh?
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kookastar
kookastar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
posted July 16, 2006 07:02 AM
Edited by kookastar at 07:06, 16 Jul 2006.

Quote:
I guess one of the things I'm wondering is: Is there a good way to fix problems like that?


Well I don't think I am an expert, and I guess nothing beats talking through your issues with the person/people, but in the situation I was talking about the personality clashes are too severe for this - I don't think much would be achieved *sigh*.

I guess too it depends how much time you are forced to be with these people.

Anyway...

What I try to do is limit the amount of time I spend with these people (that I have a bad lasting impression of).  I also have certain 'topics' that I know we kind of agree on and try to use these for short civil conversations - or ask them about one of their hobbies/family/whatever.  Once that civility is done, that's it

I must note this is more than they give me, I don't even get a hello or goodbye somedays...  I guess they have a bad impression of me too  

Anyway, I think we have something to learn from everyone we meet, and sometimes we can learn this, and then stay as far from them as possible

Surely there is someone here with more of a clue to help us both


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pandora
pandora


Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
posted July 18, 2006 05:29 PM

I would say that the only way to fix probelms like that would be to become a robot

Its simple human nature that we are influenced by our emotions, it would be impossible to seperate how we feel from how we act all of the time without becoming completely artificial beings.

I think that if we recognize that the way we are feeling about a person is influencing how we interpret them, then we can try to keep a more open mind when we are listening to them; but then again, we still fall under the limitations of being human.

The best way to have control over your interactions with other people is through a lot of introspection in my opinion. I believe that the only way we have any power to fix a situation with our relationships is if we can do taht within ourselves, there really isn't anything we can do to change others. In your example of the person who owes you money, knowing that you feel that way may help you to push those thoughts aside and listen to what the person is actually saying. from there you can either a) listen to them and find that you are able to relate to them about whatever it is or b) you may simply realize that this money issue has just done to much damage to your opinion of the person.

Generally I think if something about a person nags at you so constantly that you can't get past it your only options are to either confront the person about that issue and see if it can be resolved, or end the relationship completely. Any person who is just going to make you feel and think negatively really isn't someone you should want to have in your life at all, so if you try and find that you can't resolve it its best for you not to hold onto it.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."

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Squirrel_God
Squirrel_God

Tavern Dweller
Derranged Theist
posted July 23, 2006 05:03 AM

I completely understand the 'Impression theory' as you call it. Quite a good deduction, actually - and since it is from personal experience - good thinking and pattern observing!

For me, 'impressions' happen. Lots of them. But, a year ago, I realised (this works for me, it is not *the one-and-only truth*) that impressions were getting the best of me. I started overanalyzing things concerning people, overthinking some absurd things that they've done, etc. All of these things came from impressions, and, naturally - my brain. I couldn't enjoy the company of people, because I was constantly observing them, trying to figure out what that little, spontaneous wave of a hand meant a couple of days earlier. Observing patterns, repetitious behaviour, sudden mood swings (which were sometimes almost unnoticable)...I was going slightly mad. In the end I stopped overthinking (I still remain an ever-alert observer, just not that hyped) and started enjoying people for what they are. Sometimes, some people, whom I previously considered (in a nutshell) bad/good - surprised me and behaved in a way that was unknown to me. I gave up on havin 'still life' pictures in my head about people. They are an ever-changing race, which can not and should not be labeled or approximated. Even if you know someone for 10, 20, 30 years - you still aren't that person, and can't judge them or have a 100% sure picture of them. Some patterns are obvious and widely used (media, marketing, psychology, etc.), but people aren't just a line of patterns - they are rational, free-thinking beings. I don't care what the world thinks about someone - if I find that person interesting, I'll try to get to know them. I don't trust impressions any more, cause I consider them a bad habbit (again, IMHO) - it always seems like labeling to me. And it happened to me, so maybe I resent it because of that. People were trusting bad impressions about me, without even knowing me. I thought about this a lot on many occasions. I accept people as a variable, rather than a constant, and I believe that I would be degrading people if I imposed my expectations on them, or my points of view about them. But, that's just me...

P.S. If you're interested in labels and to an extent first impression related issues - read an article entitled 'Labels (Sociology)' in Wikipedia. I wrote it.
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Divine heritage is a human trait.

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Nidhgrin
Nidhgrin


Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
posted July 25, 2006 01:19 AM


I'm not sure this post will provide a really useful answer to your question, but it's a very interesting topic.  How you deal most effectively with unhealthy feelings of resentment or adoration depends in my opinion mostly on who you are and how you tick.  It's good to listen to what other people say about this because it can make you ponder about things you wouldn't have thought of yourself, but in the end a solution which works for someone else might not work for you at all.


I think of myself as a someone who is good or even excellent at reading people.  At work this means I can easily tell which person is fit for what job, and which people are needed for a certain task or project.  In other circumstances I can relate with people on their own level, and sometimes feel what they're feeling, think what they're thinking.

There is a dark side to being able to read people so well.  Sometimes I get so much 'on the vibe' of someone that a part of me actually becomes the other person.  If this happens I lose center, and may say or do things I wouldn't normally say or do.  Picking up accents, gestures, words I'd normally not use are some examples.  This even caused a couple of relationships to fail in the past, just because I lost track of myself too much for a while.

Another bad aspect (and I know this may sound contradictory) is that I'm very vulnerable to cons, and basically naive and unsuspicious of less noble intentions.  Every person has good sides and bad sides, and being able to detect those easily, results for me in relativating most human behaviour, and trying to place everything in a positive context.  It's only after people have hurt someone close to me or myself badly that they lose credit, and I start seeing their behaviour in a less positive context.


I guess what might interest you most is how people move from that positive context to a more negative one...  Well figuratively speaking there's a thick red line for me that no person can cross without losing atleast a part of my respect.  Step on that line and you will have my attention, step on it multiple times to make me cautious, cross it more than once to make me look at your behaviour in a suspicious way most of the time.

What's that red line?  I have strong ethical beliefs about human and animal rights, against all sorts of violence, and against power abuse and opportunism at the cost of others.  If you violate any of these badly, you cross that red line.

People who are constantly in that 'red zone' are rare, but the only thing that works for me is avoid them - or if you need to work with them professionally just stick to business, and keep things as formal and tightly within a certain frame as possible to avoid value conflicts - for that's what this is about in my opinion.


I'd never make it my mission to change someone who is behaving in a 'wrong' way according to me, for I believe change must come from within.  Additionally there is no way of telling my perspective is better than theirs, and maybe they think of me as too soft-hearted or even weak.  Instead I try to set an example most of the time, and live by my own values - rather than feeling bad or guilty for the actions of others.

If people go way out of line I will stand up and try to put an end to it, but this doesn't happen often, and mostly in a situation where a person is hurting someone close to me.


Hope this provides food for thought


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russ
russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted July 25, 2006 08:16 PM

Psych 101 stuff... the first impression is very hard to break. Our mind does not like too many unknown and unexplained things, this is why it is so eager to form the first impressions. After you form the first impression, your mind will subconsciously use everything the other person says or does to confirm and strengthen your first impression.

Personally, I consciously classify every new person I meet so that I can approach (or avoid!) them better, I also like to base it on the facts, I don't want to label people just because "they look weird". It can take anywhere from a few seconds to a few days/months to figure people out (although some unique cases are too unpredictable or unstable to be classified). But at the same time, I am very proud of the fact that my first impressions are never rock solid (unlike most of the other people who never change their labels once they make them). I can easily change my opinion about someone.

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