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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Gaining skill/ability order
Thread: Gaining skill/ability order This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
xtrak
xtrak

Tavern Dweller
posted September 05, 2006 05:32 AM
Edited by xtrak at 05:39, 05 Sep 2006.

Gaining skill/ability order

regarding HOMM5

I don't understand why is it that sometimes the good skills/abilities are offered at the same time in all fields vs very often all fields are almost empty and the ones that are not offer some crappy skill that I don't really want, why are previously offered skills/abilities not offered the next time accordingly?

I really don't understand what is the system here?
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xtrak
xtrak

Tavern Dweller
posted September 05, 2006 05:54 AM

Basicly I always go with these skills:

default character skill
destructive magic
sorcery
enlightenment
war machines

then I upgrade all of them to expert if I can, but soon I don't have any abilities to choose from which were previously offered!!

What is the point then in choosing skills if the entire system is snowed up?! will there be a patch or something, I already got 1.2 version.

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RaZmuShaDoW
RaZmuShaDoW


Known Hero
The Sync Bug Hunter
posted September 05, 2006 08:47 AM

Quote:
Basicly I always go with these skills:

default character skill
destructive magic
sorcery
enlightenment
war machines

then I upgrade all of them to expert if I can, but soon I don't have any abilities to choose from which were previously offered!!

What is the point then in choosing skills if the entire system is snowed up?! will there be a patch or something, I already got 1.2 version.



Man cool down. The skill offering system has quite a lot of random factors so there is no need to worry so much. If you would have read the manual (the one made by fans) you could have learned something about predicting the skill that will be offered to you. (These if clouses are killing me.....)
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 05, 2006 09:47 AM
Edited by Maurice at 09:49, 05 Sep 2006.

Your hero will get offered skills and abilities based on what he can learn. Generally speaking, the game will randomly pick 2 skills and offer it for learning; it will also randomly pick 2 abilities and offer it for learning. The chance of any given skill being selected is weighted with some factor, so some skills and abilities are offered more often than others. But there do seem to be several "rules" that apply to the skill selection. On each level-up, the computer seems to determine the following IF statements (psuedo-code):

For skills:
IF an empty skill slot exists THEN offer at least one random new skill

IF one or more skills at sub-expert level exist on the hero THEN offer at least one random skill upgrade

IF all six skills are selected AND two or more are at the sub-expert level THEN randomly offer two sub-expert skills for upgrade

IF five skills are selected AND all five are at expert level AND one is still blank THEN randomly offer two new skills

IF all skills are selected AND only one is sub-expert THEN offer that skill as upgrade AND leave the other skill slot blank

IF all skills are selected AND all six are at expert level THEN offer no skills at all

For abilities:
IF one or more skill level exists AND the number of abilities of those skills is less than their respective skill levels THEN randomly offer one or more abilities belonging to those skills (this keeps in mind the various interdependent ability requirements as well; this can be only one, depending on the advanced ability prerequisites and the number of skills that still have room)

IF no skills have "room" for new abilities (i.e. no skills have a level higher than the number of abilities learned for that skill) THEN offer no new abilities

Note that the ultimate ability does not follow these rules. The ultimate ability has three required abilities belonging to the faction skill and once those three are obtained, the ultimate ability always seems to be offered as a choice on level-ups from then on.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 05, 2006 10:22 AM

Excellent Maurice. I must add one more thing. The game seems *never* to blovk your path towards the Ultimate Ability. You might not always get offered a skill or ability you need, but you will have one 6th skill slot remaining for you to fill as you like independant of the ultimate skill requirements. However, I have not yet experienced the game to block the path to the ultimate skill by offering only abilities that'll make it impossible for you to acquire that skill (such as insisting on you learning scouting where you need pathfinding or not offering you one of the skills you need). Of course, I might be wrong, but to my experience so far, if you carefully plan your skills and abilities for the Ultimate Skill, you will be able to get it.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 05, 2006 12:17 PM

Quote:
Excellent Maurice. I must add one more thing. The game seems *never* to blovk your path towards the Ultimate Ability. You might not always get offered a skill or ability you need, but you will have one 6th skill slot remaining for you to fill as you like independant of the ultimate skill requirements. However, I have not yet experienced the game to block the path to the ultimate skill by offering only abilities that'll make it impossible for you to acquire that skill (such as insisting on you learning scouting where you need pathfinding or not offering you one of the skills you need). Of course, I might be wrong, but to my experience so far, if you carefully plan your skills and abilities for the Ultimate Skill, you will be able to get it.


Not really.I have pursued it in some campaigns(after having understood the mechanics) and there are two problems that can prevent you from getting it:
1)At a high lvl you get an undesirable skill(which also happens to have a 10% chance to appear) and you get it and its abilities for the next few lvls when you need to get just 1! ability for ultimate.So what if it will appear eventually,I won't have the time or xp to get it.
2)Also at a high lvl the probability of conflicting abilities increases.Yes,two completely undesired abilities!I've lost the path to the ultimate because I had no choice in 1 *#%* lvl-up.

Of course knowing what to take and leave for later can make it easier but you are still subject to chance.I guess I was a bit unlucky too but never tried to restart the final campaign(s) for a second chance.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 05, 2006 01:13 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Excellent Maurice. I must add one more thing. The game seems *never* to blovk your path towards the Ultimate Ability. You might not always get offered a skill or ability you need, but you will have one 6th skill slot remaining for you to fill as you like independant of the ultimate skill requirements. However, I have not yet experienced the game to block the path to the ultimate skill by offering only abilities that'll make it impossible for you to acquire that skill (such as insisting on you learning scouting where you need pathfinding or not offering you one of the skills you need). Of course, I might be wrong, but to my experience so far, if you carefully plan your skills and abilities for the Ultimate Skill, you will be able to get it.


Not really.I have pursued it in some campaigns(after having understood the mechanics) and there are two problems that can prevent you from getting it:
1)At a high lvl you get an undesirable skill(which also happens to have a 10% chance to appear) and you get it and its abilities for the next few lvls when you need to get just 1! ability for ultimate.So what if it will appear eventually,I won't have the time or xp to get it.
2)Also at a high lvl the probability of conflicting abilities increases.Yes,two completely undesired abilities!I've lost the path to the ultimate because I had no choice in 1 *#%* lvl-up.

Of course knowing what to take and leave for later can make it easier but you are still subject to chance.I guess I was a bit unlucky too but never tried to restart the final campaign(s) for a second chance.


Ad 1) Yes, you do not always get the thing you need for sure. I played Inferno campaign, and needed Logistics, and kept getting only abilities in Light Magic (which was my off-beat skill) and then Scouting - so I didn't ever make it, but that was only because I didn't get beyond level 28.

Ad 2) I have not experienced that. I might be wrong, then. In all my games so far, I have at some point been offered the correct ability, but you might be able to be unlucky, then.

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Kalis
Kalis

Tavern Dweller
posted September 05, 2006 07:23 PM
Edited by Kalis at 19:28, 05 Sep 2006.

What skills do you people tend to prefer?  I'm curious since there's 14 skills to choose from, and you only get 5 of them (in addition to your hero's basic skill).

Logistics is a must.
Sorcery + 1 area of magic.

With 2 skills remaining, I find myself choosing between enlightenment, luck, and attack.

In general, I choose enlightenment and luck, but I'm curious what skills you people go for.
I choose enlightenment over attack because I feel the stat bonus (10 pts at level 20) probably does more overall than 15% damage that attack provides for melee troops, 20% for ranged troops.  On the flip side, you have to miss out on tactics.

Obviously, however, this is just in general.  For example, if you're ranger, you would definitely go for war machines (rather than luck or enlightenment) as your imbue can affect the ballista as well.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 05, 2006 09:00 PM

I generally aim for Logistics, Light Magic, Attack, Dark Magic and Luck, but will also go for Defense, Sorcery or Enlightenment, if its required for Ultimate Skill.

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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted September 05, 2006 11:43 PM

Is logistics actually a definite skill that you take with every hero?

I see many posts saying that the maps are tiny and then I see many posts saying that logistics is vital.  While it is true you get more movement, I usually don't take it with my Wizards.  There are enough skills that are valuable that I don't always want to waste a pick on logistics especially on maps that have nice terrain for my faction.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 06, 2006 09:13 AM

You might argue that especially on small maps, having Logistics may make or break your game. Your relative reach is bigger on small maps than on large maps.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 06, 2006 09:28 AM

I usually go for Logistics, but not always. I haven't really established a cut in stone routine as yet, I haven't played the game that much. I do think it's a very very nice skill to have, however, especially now Town Portal is out of the game. Also, many of the Ultimate Skills build on logistics as one of the requirements, so if you play along that path, it'll usually come naturally.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 06, 2006 10:27 AM

Not so since most don't care to find the ultimate in multiplayer,however logistics is one of my favourite skills along with luck.But that means little since for every type of hero I have in mind a type of build that I believe compliments their faction more than others.Of course it's not set and probably never will because there are more combinations that can get the job done or counter certain strategies.Having a build in mind doesn't mean my hero will end up like I planned as I try to get the most out of what is offered so I may skip one skill if it takes long to appear or take a rare skill when I usually don't depend on it.
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TemjinGold
TemjinGold


Known Hero
posted September 06, 2006 02:29 PM

It's actually kind of hard to get screwed by the system as long as you are intelligent about your choices and plan ahead. In the early levels, be sure to always stay one level ahead in trees over abilities as if you have Expert Racial and nothing else, and you pick your third ability, you would be setting yourself up for 2 tree picks that you might not want. Other than that, if trees and abilities that you want show up, always pick the ability UNLESS the tree is the basic version of something you want. Pick basics to lock in trees in the beginning but after you've locked in all the ones you wanted (or 5 out of 6 and waiting for last), then always pick abilities over trees since you'll eventually get all the trees to expert but abilities have desirable/undesirable.
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xtrak
xtrak

Tavern Dweller
posted September 07, 2006 01:57 AM

So the final question is there some table or other graphical list which shows clearly which abilities open other abilities and which levels open new abilities and skills?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 07, 2006 02:02 AM

Quote:
So the final question is there some table or other graphical list which shows clearly which abilities open other abilities and which levels open new abilities and skills?


There you go http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=520.You can download the skillwheel from there.
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xtrak
xtrak

Tavern Dweller
posted September 07, 2006 08:27 PM
Edited by xtrak at 20:52, 07 Sep 2006.

Wow! that link is fantastic, It's a damn shame they didn't put it on the DVD or the manual. Has someone contacted publisher about this, it's very strange that such basic stuff is omitted.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 07, 2006 09:43 PM

It's in the fan-made manual. There are also some even better Skill-charts. Follow download link and one of the Sticky topics in top of this forum.

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xtrak
xtrak

Tavern Dweller
posted September 07, 2006 11:38 PM

Someone should definitely contact the publisher to avoid such omittions in the future.

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TemjinGold
TemjinGold


Known Hero
posted September 08, 2006 04:42 AM

Why not you?
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