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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Academy ain't that bad?
Thread: Academy ain't that bad? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV
TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted December 12, 2006 09:40 PM

I believe Archangels have the same initiative...

...and yeah, they ARE useless in Haven, because Marksmen are super overpowered, and the training stuff speaks for itself. Were you to have Archdevils and Archangels in a Haven town, I believe you would say "both are stupid" and return to Marksmen.

Marksmen and training is overpowered. That's why Archangels are "more overpowered" than Archdevils, to fit the overpowered Marksmen.. Unfortunately, marksmen are still overpowered.

I was referring Archdevil vs Archangel as if they constituted the same town. For example, imagine a dwelling somewhere on a map with these two units (and you MUST choose which one to hire).. which would you choose? surely the Archangels are overpowered here, because of their low cost.

In general (without the "rest of the town"), just focusing on these two units, Archangels are not needed in Haven because the faction is already overpowered. Demon is weak so it needs Archdevils.. but that doesn't make Archdevils better than Archangels "as units"... if you put them to fight against each other, since they are aprox. same, so Devils don't have "different" strategies than an Angel (except the angel is faster, with +1 speed), I bet they will almost be the same. Ok fine, but it shouldn't!!!! Archangels are cheaper, so they should be defeated.

Believe me, if you had marksmen in a Demon town, you'll realize how useless those devils are.. much useless than angels 'cause they waste extra money (+400 gold).


Yeah, peasants are the weakest tier 1 creature, I know, and never said they are tough.. however, conscript's bash is pretty useful (defensively, of course).. if it targets Pit lords and triggers (esp with Soldiers luck), be sure that your Pit Lords won't EVER attack.

Also, why do you think Familiars are useless? You should shield them -- given their high numbers (growth), they do the MOST damage of any tier 1 creature. Try to shield them as much as possible till they get to the enemy.
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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted December 12, 2006 09:48 PM
Edited by TowerLord at 21:51, 12 Dec 2006.

Archangels and Archdevils are pretty equal ... but the Archangel, is a little better... more hit points , more defense , more speed , same initiative and a little less average certainly make the call in favor of the Archangel.

On the other side, the paladins and marksmen are so great they don't really need archangels. In my last game i built the angels(not archangels), and even though they won the game for me by getting a morale and making me able to finish off my opponent , I regret the decision of building them ...My money would have been better spent on 2nd town cavaliers!

The Inferno doesn't posses such alternatives, so you have to go for Devils ...

PS : woow ... while i was writting , the same answer was being posted by someone else

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TheDeath
TheDeath


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Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted December 12, 2006 09:56 PM

Quote:
Archangels and Archdevils are pretty equal ... but the Archangel, is a little better... more hit points , more defense , more speed , same initiative and a little less average certainly make the call in favor of the Archangel.

Exactly.. they are pretty much equal, however why I say Archangels are overpowered is because that they cost less gold (4200 < 4666). In fact, Archangels should really be around 4500 gold.. but anywaya Haven already has cheap units (look at that powerful Paladin, only 1550 gold).

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Retired Hero
posted December 12, 2006 09:58 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 22:05, 12 Dec 2006.

Quote:
I believe Archangels have the same initiative...

...and yeah, they ARE useless in Haven, because Marksmen are super overpowered, and the training stuff speaks for itself. Were you to have Archdevils and Archangels in a Haven town, I believe you would say "both are stupid" and return to Marksmen.

Marksmen and training is overpowered. That's why Archangels are "more overpowered" than Archdevils, to fit the overpowered Marksmen.. Unfortunately, marksmen are still overpowered.

I was referring Archdevil vs Archangel as if they constituted the same town. For example, imagine a dwelling somewhere on a map with these two units (and you MUST choose which one to hire).. which would you choose? surely the Archangels are overpowered here, because of their low cost.

In general (without the "rest of the town"), just focusing on these two units, Archangels are not needed in Haven because the faction is already overpowered. Demon is weak so it needs Archdevils.. but that doesn't make Archdevils better than Archangels "as units"... if you put them to fight against each other, since they are aprox. same, so Devils don't have "different" strategies than an Angel (except the angel is faster, with +1 speed), I bet they will almost be the same. Ok fine, but it shouldn't!!!! Archangels are cheaper, so they should be defeated.

Believe me, if you had marksmen in a Demon town, you'll realize how useless those devils are.. much useless than angels 'cause they waste extra money (+400 gold).


Yeah, peasants are the weakest tier 1 creature, I know, and never said they are tough.. however, conscript's bash is pretty useful (defensively, of course).. if it targets Pit lords and triggers (esp with Soldiers luck), be sure that your Pit Lords won't EVER attack.

Also, why do you think Familiars are useless? You should shield them -- given their high numbers (growth), they do the MOST damage of any tier 1 creature. Try to shield them as much as possible till they get to the enemy.


Some good points. We all know haven is imba - or rather, marksmen+dougal combo is Anyway, If I could choose between archangels and archdevils for my town, I'd rather pick the devils. You're right, they're on the same init (sorry for my stupid mistake )

Familiars are manasuckers. Nothing more. yes, they do most damage with great initiative, but still it's 69 dmg/week, still the lowest of inferno forces (excluding demons, which are such crap that I don't really see the point of getting them except earlygame shield). I usually ressurect cerberi, though. They are great, bt fragile and surely will get killed first, so a corpse will appear quite early

Demon town ain't weak. Most people think so, but it's wrong. I like playing said-to-be underdogs which in fact can mop the floor with "uber" factions like sylvan or dungeon. Demon town has counters to every strategy, best creeping in the game, great racial, good creature specials, what else does it need?

Haven.. haven is simply imbalanced, and it doesn't mean other cities are "weak". It means haven MUST get nerfed in 2.1 :<

ah yes, shield bash or no, ever heard of teleport assault? It's my favorite way of turning pit lords into great fighters. Without it, they are pretty much sad crap, yes, but I always aim for that skill, and with it, they are great! Besides, Pitlord stack's massive HP makes the chance for a shield bash rather marginal.

Thanks for the tips, but I really know how to play my castle and why I should shield familiars I try to get a second castle soon just to boost their growth. When fighting a warlock, huge familiar stack may really change everything. Doubtful they will TOTALLY drain a hero, but  still, 4-5 empowered implosions less is priceless >_>

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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted December 12, 2006 10:05 PM

Hey, I never said other towns are weak. In fact among my favourite Inferno, Sylvan, Dungeon and Necro, I played most with Inferno and Sylvan. Inferno is a very powerful town I agree, especially the Nightmare man. In fact any "decent" town is ok, except Haven.. with Academy I probably don't know "that" much yet (again sorry for the unlimited mana for Djinns), but I certainly see that Steel Golems are way to powerful than minotaurs, and you get even more growth, funnily enough.

My discussion with the angels was NOT justifying that "Haven is supreme, hehe".. on the contrary, I wanted to express my opinions about the damn Haven, 'cause it's too overpowered -- when I first saw Devils it seemed balanced, and it is. The only imbalanced thing are the Archangels and the Paladins. The devils are ok -- look at the Titan that does almost same damage, a bit less hit points, etc.. These are all balanced well. Haven is imbalanced.

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TowerLord
TowerLord


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Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted December 12, 2006 10:06 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Archangels and Archdevils are pretty equal ... but the Archangel, is a little better... more hit points , more defense , more speed , same initiative and a little less average certainly make the call in favor of the Archangel.

Exactly.. they are pretty much equal, however why I say Archangels are overpowered is because that they cost less gold (4200 < 4666). In fact, Archangels should really be around 4500 gold.. but anywaya Haven already has cheap units (look at that powerful Paladin, only 1550 gold).


that is true, the paladins are huge, but have a look at another great imbalance of the game... nightmares 666 gold , inquisitors 900 . every town has its weak spots and tough spots.

And I don't think Inferno is a underdog... especially with the new gating system !

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted December 12, 2006 10:08 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 22:11, 12 Dec 2006.

We wait for Nival to nerf training since 1.1 And still nothing..

Although rumors say that training will be changed on 2.1. I hope for a solid nerf.. The dougal marksmen thing makes the game pretty much unplayable, there is little to do against infamous 600 marksmen in 6th week.. sure, with deleb I will already have a fully built castle and high levels.. But it's usually still not enough >_>

edit:guys, we are doing a HUGE offtopic here..

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Elvin
Elvin


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What if Elvin was female?
posted December 12, 2006 10:35 PM

No way!
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted December 12, 2006 10:44 PM
Edited by TheDeath at 22:45, 12 Dec 2006.

as a side note, once I was battling with a Demon AI.. I was overwhelmed by his troops, but what surprised me was the fact that some 320 familiars with good luck killed all my Green dragons (9 total) .. his hero was the same level, and as demons base on attack, rangers base on defense, so I believe the hero boost effects were cancelled. I stopped for a minute and said: "How MUCH damage can those little creeps MAKE ANYWAY??!?!?!? damn.."


p.s: AI was modified, he had 2.0 growth.. probably that explains why he had so many familiars (seeing as I did battle with him before).

sorry for off topic

EDIT: Nightmare vs Inquisitor.. How about Nightmare vs Unicorn?? I agree, it's imbalanced

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Elvin
Elvin


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What if Elvin was female?
posted December 12, 2006 11:06 PM

AI gets joins occasionally and definitely flags dwellings which is reflected on his disproportionately big armies.If you modify the AI too...
'Nightmare vs Inquisitor.. How about Nightmare vs Unicorn?? I agree, it's imbalanced'

Nah,there are worse things to worry about.Some examples like that can easily be explained if you look at the overall structure.
Haven doesn't count It is Nival's preciousss!If you can believe it,it was getting buffed while academy was being nerfed for a while.
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Dungeonian
Dungeonian


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Supreme matriarch
posted December 13, 2006 01:55 AM

 Haven isn't as overpowered as everyone here said if you choose Heroic difficulty in multyplayer . I think , war machine guys on small maps are much more imbalanced ( Deleb , Kaspar , Vittorio , Havez - these heroes are banned when we're playing a small or medium map ) . Dugal , however was bitten by Eruina near 3 times from 4 , his marksmen are a great headache for might oriented hero , but dies like batterflies when they're targeted by lucky emprowed spells .
 The most cheating Haven hero in 1.0 - Klaus was nerfed seriously , paladins justing bonus also is halved . But I also dislike peasant -> archer upgrade cause it's illogical - peasants aren't warriors and couldn't be trained immediately per one turn .

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TowerLord
TowerLord


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Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted December 13, 2006 09:18 AM

Quote:
 Haven isn't as overpowered as everyone here said if you choose Heroic difficulty in multyplayer . I think , war machine guys on small maps are much more imbalanced ( Deleb , Kaspar , Vittorio , Havez - these heroes are banned when we're playing a small or medium map ) . Dugal , however was bitten by Eruina near 3 times from 4 , his marksmen are a great headache for might oriented hero , but dies like batterflies when they're targeted by lucky emprowed spells .
 The most cheating Haven hero in 1.0 - Klaus was nerfed seriously , paladins justing bonus also is halved . But I also dislike peasant -> archer upgrade cause it's illogical - peasants aren't warriors and couldn't be trained immediately per one turn .


he is right, lucky implosion kicks marksmen... there are some strange compensations though : when you have huge numbers, you can win simply by killing his troops faster then he kills yours ( splitting marksmen in 2 stacks is a must), and when the troops numbers are small, you can still win by resurecting,which can compete with dungeon's implo's in these conditions... just remember to stay out of the meteor shower range

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted December 13, 2006 11:11 AM

cast antimagic next time maybe? He will do 35% spell damage assuming he has expert irresistable magic :X

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TowerLord
TowerLord


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Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted December 13, 2006 01:41 PM

Quote:
cast antimagic next time maybe? He will do 35% spell damage assuming he has expert irresistable magic :X


it could work ... but only if I get it in guild ... and also ... he can just ignore that stack

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted December 13, 2006 05:37 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 17:37, 13 Dec 2006.

Never knew you care for other stacks in the battle.. ;p Besides, he also has to get implo in his guild.50% chance for both of you

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sparticus311
sparticus311

Tavern Dweller
posted December 15, 2006 06:42 PM

Mission 5-Academy Campaign

Can anybody help me. The game keeps crashing when I fight Biara at the end. Everytime I kill a summoned creature it crashes. Any suggestions? Thanks.

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