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Kruel
Adventuring Hero
Gropabo
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posted October 03, 2001 09:43 PM |
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Flying in combat
I was thinking of this as heroes is getting more and more inspired by M:TG.
Why not taking the fly ability into account during the fights ? Why would dragons just fly, then land, then attack, and not simply attack from air ? This could introduce many new interesting concepts (as present in starcraft for exemple), like flying creatures stronger against other flyiers, some against walkers, some able to hit only flying/walking creatures. And then you could imagine some walkers with special abilities against flying creatures, some especialy designed to fight them, some spells to have them obliged to land or much weaker (like clouds or something), some making them stronger etc. This would make flying creatures something else than just walkers that can go through obstacles.
Finally, there would be a 2-level battlefield with different interactions depending on which part of it you are in (air, or earth).
Of course, it's too late for heroes 4 i guess... Maybe heroes 5 ?? 
I hope somebody didn't post this idea before, i'm pretty new here and don't have time to read everything anyway.
So, what do you think ?
Kruel
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Preserver
Promising
Famous Hero
Elemental Druid
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posted October 03, 2001 10:34 PM |
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I think the idea is good. Walkers, attacked by flyers should not be able to retaliate, while flyers could strike back when being attacked from the air...
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- The only alert the invaders had was the rustling of leaves on a day without wind -
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RMS
Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
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posted October 04, 2001 12:34 AM |
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...the thing is that in MTG, you don't actually get to choose your creatures, they're just random (not to say you can't create an all flyer deck)...but in HoMM you get to decide what creatures you wish to recruit into your ranks...if it is made that way, wouldn't they become just a bit too powerful, especially when it comes that players have a much larger number of troops ready for hire, than their ready supply of income?
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This space for rent.
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Gravdragon
Known Hero
Barbarian
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posted October 04, 2001 06:09 PM |
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I think it would unbalance the game terribly if the flyers could attack from the air. Imagine that one black dragon attack a legion of ogre mage. The dragon would win because the ogre mage would not be able to attack nor retaliate.
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L´ombre fatal - The shadow of death
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Preserver
Promising
Famous Hero
Elemental Druid
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posted October 04, 2001 07:59 PM |
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It's unfair, yes, and I'm not quite sure if I want it in the game, but it's still a good idea...
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- The only alert the invaders had was the rustling of leaves on a day without wind -
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Paradigm
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 05, 2001 12:10 AM |
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The game is balanced if you are prepared.
If you need to fight a group of flying creatures you should be prepared with flying creatures of your own or shooters.
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Provenire of the Shift!
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kruel
Adventuring Hero
Gropabo
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posted October 05, 2001 01:34 AM |
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I think there should always be a way for a single creature stack to win over another single creature stack.
So the option no retaliate + no attack is not possible, i think no attack shouldn't be possible at all. no retaliate seems fine, or maybe you could imagine walkers doing half damage against flyers.
This has me sense to say this would unbalance the game, as many other parameters are to take into acount, you can always play with speed, hit points, damage etc.
Kruel
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NKW
Hired Hero
Tatalian Guard of Honor
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posted October 05, 2001 03:40 PM |
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No retaliation when a flying unit attacks a ground unit? Then how the hell is the flying unit going to attack the ground unit, because to attack it surely must come down. Or is it going to use missile fire? I do not know any ranged unit that can fly...
As for ground units not being able to attack flying units, this does make some sense if they're not using missile fire...but this would also imply that if the flying unit decides to stay flying thre isn't going to be a battle at all. So flying units can't be attacked by walkers...now what about units like the champion (speed 12), if one champion is being attacked by a horde of dwarves (speed 3), then the champion will clearily be able to out run them too, so no battle is going to take place either...this is getting booorrriiinnngggg!
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"What actually transpires beneath the veil of an event horizon?
Decent people shouldn't think too much about that."
--Provost Zaharov, Adress to the Faculty
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Kruel
Adventuring Hero
Gropabo
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posted October 05, 2001 06:52 PM |
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The point at first wasn't about retaliation or no retaliation. It was about flying units and making a difference between them and the others.
1st difference being that they wouldn't land at all, especially not for attacking. Do you imagine an eagle landing before attacking you (like tbirds do ?).
Then if things like no retaliation are too unbalanced, you can just imagine new abilities or spells related to the flying ability.
Examples :
* A wind spell making all flying units faster on the battlefield (actually this could exist in heroes 3-4)
* A fog spell making them slower and weaker
* A gravity spell could oblige all flyers to land and walk
* some shooters may deal extra damage against flyers
* units like champions could do less damage or not retaliate against flying units (cause they're on a horse and have only a long pike)
* Flyers could make an extra 20% damage against regular walking units
* Flyers who had to land (because or spell, or maybe a rule could be after a fight between flyers both have to land) would take extra damage from ground units.
And finally, what if some no retaliation or no ability to strike air make the units unbalanced one-on-one ? Nobody asks you to wander with only one stack, making some good combination in your army can be a very intersting part of the game.
For those of you who ever played starcraft, of course a zerg would never attack with only guardians, but teaming them with other useful units can make them very powerfull.
Kruel
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NKW
Hired Hero
Tatalian Guard of Honor
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posted October 05, 2001 07:05 PM |
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If a Great eagle wishes to attack a champion it must come close enough to do so, if it does, would it be so strange for the champion to stab him?
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"What actually transpires beneath the veil of an event horizon?
Decent people shouldn't think too much about that."
--Provost Zaharov, Adress to the Faculty
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kruel
Adventuring Hero
Gropabo
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posted October 06, 2001 03:00 AM |
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Well...
try to hit a bird with a pike... not an easy game.
I mean if he can hit it, there should be at least some kind of penalty.
Kruel
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=6]Library Of Enlightenment[/url], to discuss Heroes 4, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=17]War Room Of Axeoth[/url].
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