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| Thread: Not in MY COUNTRY |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted December 07, 2006 05:50 AM |
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Not in MY COUNTRY
Subject: Not in MY country....
This is a petition that I came by and I don’t do petitions that often, but this one was a must. Just thought I would share and get your opinion. I'm number 468!!!!!!!!
This is not my story but a story from the person that started this petition..
"My mom was a homemaker and dad worked all his life and paid into SS, dad has passed away and now my mom can barely make ends meet. While the possible"illegal" alien in front of her at the grocery store buys the name brands,my mom goes for the generic brands, and day old breads. She doesn't have out of state calling on her phone, because she can't afford it and shops at the thrift shops and dollar stores while the "illegal" aliens go to Macy's, Gap, J.C. Penny, Banana Republic, etc. She considers having a pizza delivered once a week "eating out". She grew up during the depression, watched her husband go overseas to fight in WW II a year after their marriage, and then they went on to raise, feed and clothe 5 children, scrounging to pay tuition for parochial schools. I'm sorry, but I can't see how the Senate can justify this slap in the face to born and bred, or naturalized citizens. It is already impossible to liveon Social Security alone. If they give benefits to "illegal" aliens who have never contributed, where does that leave us that have paid into Social Security all our working lives.The Senate voted this week to allow"illegal" aliens access to Social Security benefits. Attached is an opportunity to sign a petition that requires citizenship for eligibility to receive social services. If you do not wish to sign the petition yourself,please forward on to anyone you think might be interested.
PETITION FOR: President Bush Mr. President:The petition below is a protest against the recent vote of the senate which was to allow illegal aliens access to our social security! We demand access to our social security. We demand that you and all congressional representatives require citizenship for anyone to be eligible for socialservices in the United States.
/b]. > > > >1. Mary Takami, Calif.> > > >2. Connie Dodd. Calif.> > > >3. Frank Beirau, Calif.> > > >4. Barbara Murray, Calif.> > > >5. Dody Farha, Okla.> > > >6, Woody Farho, Okla> > > >7. Donna Capatost o, CA> > > >8. Larry Capatosto, CA> > > >9. Ryan Capatosto, CA> > > >10. Sam antha Capatosto, CA> > > >11. Nancy Brown, Torrance, CA> > > >12. Daniel Brown, Torrance, CA> > > >13. Tamara Clark, Torrance, CA> > > >14. Darrin Clark, Torrance, CA> > > >15. J. L. Thome, Torrance, CA> > > >16. J. E. Thome, torrance, CA> > > >17. Phillip Cook, Manhattan B each, CA> > > >18. Howard Th! rall, Rancho Palos Verdes, CA> > > >19. Jim Lehman The Dalles, Or> > > >20. TOM JENSEN, SAN ANTONIO, TX> > > >21. Ed Melone Phoenix AZ> > > &am p;g t;22 Laetitia Borden Phoenix AZ> > > >23 bob reid, mesa az> > > >24 janet reid, mesa az> > > >25 kaley reid, mesa az> > > >26 antonio reid, mesa az> > > >27. Spike Graham, Pa radise Valley, AZ> > > >28. Wendy Graham, Paradise Valley, AZ> > > >29. Joe Johnston, Gilbert AZ> > > >30. Jerry Eppler, Carmel, CA> > > >31. Mary Worth, Prescott AZ> > > >32 Gary Carville, Los Altos, CA> > > >33. Ron Jeziorski, Santa Clara, CA> > > >34. Jeff Jeziorski, Thousand Oaks, CA> > > >35. Gary Kos, Thousand Oaks, CA> > > >36. Susan Kos, Thousand Oaks, CA> > > >37. Pierre Gerardy,Fillmore, CA> > > >38. Cynthia Nadeau, Van Nuys, CA> > > >39. Sean Nadeau, Van Nuys, CA> > > >40. Kyle Nadeau, van Nuys, CA> > > >41. William Coburn, ShermanOaks, CA> > > >42. James Harper, ShermanOaks, CA> > > >43. Carver Shannon, Los Angeles, CA> > > >44. Paul Turgeon, Los Angeles, CA> > > >45. Cathy Wainwright, Redondo Beach, CA> > > >46. Thomas Raoch, Redondo Beach, CA &g t;47. Doris Roach, Redondo >> >Beach,> >CA> > > >48 John Sabel, Redondo Beach, CA> > > >49. Howard Wood, Redndo beach, CA> > > >50 Vincent Wainwright, San Diego, CA> > > >51. David Kauffman, San Diego, CA> > > >52. Don Jorgenson, Hawthrone, CA> > > >53. Sam Gerardi, Redondo Beach, CA> > > >54. Michele Crowley, PA> > > >55. Richard Crowley, PA> > > >56. Bill Thompson> > > >57. Jan Thompson> > > >58. Brit Lane> > > >59. Therese Blyleven> > > >60. Eugenia Barney> > > >61. Larry Barney> > > >62 Barbara M. Kohl Tonasket, Wa.> > > >63. J. A. LOWMAN, YUMA, AZ> > > >64. Deveta Papania, Yuma, AZ> > > >65. B. Picciano, AZ> > > >66. A. Picciano, AZ> > > >67. J. lang, Ar.> > > >68. W.lang, Ar.> > > >69. C. Gully, Ca.> > > >70. J. Gully, Ca.> > > >71. C Rusch Ca> > > >72. Chryl Gallagher, Ca> > > >73. Dominic Cerra, CA.> > > >74. Tracy Regan, Vista, CA> > > >75. Yvonne Hamnquist, Vista, CA> > > >76. Mike Hamnquist, Vista, CA> > > >7 7. Myrrl Hamnquist, Vista, CA> > > 78. Janette McLintock, Vista, CA> > > >79. Robert McLintock, Vista, CA> > > >80. Robert McLintock, Jr., Lincoln, NE !> > > >81. Katie McLin tock, Lincoln, NE> > > >82. J. Woodburn, Vista, CA> > > >83. M. A. Woodburn, Vista,CA> > > >84. C. A. Woodburn, Vista, CA> > > >85. Gerald A. Boswell, Prescott, AZ> > > >86. Rehab S. Boswell, Prescott, AZ> > > >87 Oliver Taylor, Prescott, AZ> > > >88. Carolyn S. Taylor, Prescott, AZ> > > >89 Thomas A. Reid> > > >90 Shirley L. Reid> > > >91Susan Whiteley Las Vegas, NV> > > >92 Paul Whiteley Las Vegas, NV> > > >93. Barbara Meyer, CA> > > >94. William Damery> > > >95 Richard Anderson , Pioneer, CA.> > > >96 Debbie Anderson, Pioneer, CA.> > > >97 Gary Dorall,Pioneer, CA> > > >98 Jean Dorall, Pioneer, CA.> > > >99 Janice Anderson CA> > > >100 Orville Anderson CA> > > >101 Charles Scanlon, CA> > > >102 Dol ores Scanlon, CA> > > >103 Donald R. Burr> > > >104 Dar lene Y. Burr> > > >105 Richard W. Bothman> > > >106 Dennis Holmes, CAlifornia> > > >107. Harlan L. Bowe, Sierra Vista , AZ> > > >108 Larry Bonham> > > >109.Merle Forst Oregon> > > >110 Marlena Forst, California> > > >111. le Heiser, Oregon> > > >112. Pat Wells, California> > > >113. Jan Wendell, Texas> > > >114. Sharon Schutz, Texas> > > >115. David Schutz, Texas> > > >116. Kitty Jones, Texas> > > >117. Carolyn Joynt, Tennessee> > > >118. Paul Brown, MS> > > >119. Connie Brown, MS> > > >120. John ny L. Sanders, LA> > > >121. Rebecca T. Sanders, LA> > > >122. John Dukes, La.> > > >123. Lois M. Dukes, La.> > > >124. Terry Wilson, La.> > > >125 Dean Wilkerson, AR> > > >126. W. Curtis Hicks> > > >127. Gypsy N. Hicks> > > >128. Neil H. Dobbins, AR> > > >129. Regina MDobbins, AR> > > >130. Ida L. Kennedy, AR> > > >131. Frank Bonner, Ca> > > >132. DeAndra Boydd, CA> > > >133. Marcus Boydd, CA> > > >134. Danny Michaels, CA> > > >135. Daniel Meditz, CA> > > &g t;136. Dorothy Gehring, CA> > > >137. Harvey B . Walker, Anaheim,Ca> > > >138. Linda L. Walker, Anaheim,Ca> > > >139. KC Douglas, Anaheim,Ca> > > >140. Brandi L. Walker Anaheim Hills, Ca> > > >141. Zach Bevans, Anaheim Hills, Ca> > > >142. Devin D. Schroeder, Corona,Ca> > > >143. Paul Schroeder, Corona,Ca> > > >144. Nancee Micham, Taneyville, Mo> > > >145. M ike Micham, Taneyville, Ca> > > >146.Helen Sabin, Rancho Palos Verdes,Ca> > > >147! . Julie Clarke, San Pedro, CA> > > >148. Nikola Brajevich, Rancho Palos Verdes, CA> > > >149. Richard Bulot, San Pedro, CA> > > >150. Joe B. Cagle, Irvine, CA> > > >151.Ronald A. Cotta, Redondo Beach, CA> > > >152 Carol Waselenchuk, FL> > > >153 Jeanette J. Brooks, Madsen, FL> > > >154. Sheryl L. Brooks-Kyleen, Madsen, FL> > > >155 Linda Luchnick, Brick, NJ> > > >156. Rand Madsen, FL> > > >157 David A. Whitehorn, Fl.> > > >158 Mary Whitehorn, Fl.> > > &g t; ;158 James H. Peak> > > >159 Janith E. Peak> > > >160 Bill Millholland> > > >161 Barbara Millholland> > > >162 Gerald Powell> > > >163 Linda Powell> > > >164 RAYMOND KUHN> > > >165 Dolores Kuhn> > > >166 Roger Parrish> > > >167 Joanne Parrish> > > >168 Mike Volpe, Florida> > > >169 Betty Volpe, Florida> > > >170 Kyle L. Hartzell, Florida> > > >171 Thom Milnor, Douglasville , GA> > > >172 Eileen Milnor, Douglasville , GA> > > >173 Gary Milnor, Douglasville , GA> > > >174 Jackie Francis, Douglasville , GA> > > >175 Lawrenc e P. Pate , Avon Park, Florida> > > >176 Penny Socin, Arlington, Texas> > > >178 Jerry Socin, Arlington, Texas> > > >179 Rader, Belvidere, Illinois> > > >180 Marnie Mowles, Marion, Montana> > > >181 William R. Miller Jr, KANSAS> > > >182 Linda Miller, KANSAS> > > >183 David Dielman> > > >184 Orland Rosell> > > >185.Amber Brooks> > > >186. Jason Rosell> > > >187.Courtney Brooks, Pensacola, Florida> > > >18 8. Becky Brooks, Pensacola, Florida> > > >189. Pam Leonard, Cantonment, FL> > > >190. James T., Pensacola, FL> > > >191. & gt; W.Thomas TN> > > >192. H Thomas TN> > > >193. Fort Wayne Hopper, AL> > > >194. B Clark, AL> > > &g t;195. C. Jordan, Al.> > > >196. R. Knight> > > >197. D. H. Blackwelder, FL> > > >198. K. Dougherty, MD> > > >199. R. Dougherty, MD> > > >200. M Ranalla, ME> > > >201. C. Ranalla, WA> > > >202. Joseph Ran alla,Ca.> > > >203.Cheryl Ranalla.Ca.> > > >204. Jeanie Johnson, CA> > > >205. Paul Johnson, CA> > > >206 Robert Caris, CA> > > >207 Cindy Seeley, VA> > > >208 Jeanine Kody,VA> > > >209 Ron Kody, VA> > > >210 Sandra Wetmore, VA> > > >211 William Moore, VA> > > >212 Mary Alice Moore, VA> > > >213 Harry M. Moore, VA> > > >214 Virginia Williams, NC> > > >215 Thurman Williams NC> > > >216 L endon Cunningham NC> > > >217 Wendy Cunningham NC> > > >218 Debbie Parker> > > >219 Clif P ark er, High Point, NC> > > >220 Donna Newton, Greensboro, N.C.> > > >221 Jennifer McClintock, Asheboro, NC> > > >222 Diane Rodgers, Asheboro, NC> > > >223 Mike Rodgers, Greensboro, NC> > > >224 Debor ah Jordon, Beachwood, NJ> > > >225 JoAnne Piaggio, Beachwood,NJ> > > >226 Patrick Piaggio, Jr., Beachwood, NJ> > > >227. Carolyn Hannon, Beachwood, NJ> > > >228. Michael H annon, Beachwood, NJ> > > >229. MARC CANTILLO, TOMS RIVER, N.J.> > > >230. Pat Shaffer- Brick, N.J.> > > >231. Mary Ann Beyer, NJ> > > >232. Peggy Weissenborn, FL> > > >233. Lynne Chernin, FL> > > >234. Art Mason , Fl.> > > >235. LARRY SIMS, FL.> > > >236. CAROLYN L PENNINGTON, FL.> > > >237. Jean Stewart, Luna Pier, MI.> > > >238. Donald Stewart, Lun a Pier, MI> > > >239. John Stewart, Luna Pier, MI> > > >240. Carol Weston, Georgetown, TX> > > >241. Georgia Blaylock, Del Norte, CO> > > >242. Arlene Campos, Sacramento, CA> > > >243. Kellie Messenger, Elk Grove, C A >244. Charlotte Clarke,> >Elk> > >Grove, CA> > > > 245. John Sharkey, El Dorado Hills, CA> > > >246. Carole Sharkey, El Dorado Hills, CA> > > >247. David Sharkey, El Dorado Hills, CA> > > >248. Mary Saber, Sacramento, CA> > > >249. Scott Saber, Sacramento, CA> > > >250. Frank Poropatt, Sacramento, CA> > > >251. MaryPoropatt, Sacramento, CA> > > >252. Judy Cernava.Las Vegas, NV> > > >253. JohnCernava, Las Vegas, NV> > > >254. Mary Ellen Egbert -Canonsburg, PA> > > >255. Genevieve Egb ert - Canonsburg, PA> > > >256. Dorothy Bunevich - Canonsburg, PA> > > >257. George Bunevich - Canonsburg, PA> > > >258. Andrea Raymer - Canonsburg, PA> > > >259. Dennis Raymer -&n bsp; Canonsburg, PA> > > >260. Rita Polansky - Canonsburg, PA> > > >261. Howard Markowitz- Leesburg, Fl.> > > >262. Ellen Bernstein, N.J.> > > >263. Lisa Vinciquarra-Little Egg Harbor, N.J.> > > >264. Anthony Vinciquarra-Little Egg Harb or, N.J.> > > >265. Debbie Stutler-Toms River, NJ> > > >266. Buck Stutler-Toms River! , NJ> > > >267. Susan Prieto - Brick, NJ> > > >268. Rich Prieto - Brick, NJ> > > >269. Bob Schneider - Hereford, AZ> > > >270. Don Cash our- Point Pleasant,NJ> > > >271. Steve Cashour - Wall, NJ> > > >272. Dan Pistelli - Brenham, TX> > > >273. Della Smith - Brenham, TX> > > >274. D. Mapes - Princeton, NJ> > > >275.C.Mapes - Princeton, NJ> > > >276. D. Kleiber Scotia, NY> > > >277. Richard Fitzgerald-Holt, Michigan> > > >278. Polly Fitzgerald-Holt, Michigan> > > >279. Denise Hayball Jackson, MI> > > >280. Beth Smith - Dothan AL> > > >281. Patti Bond _ Dothan, AL> > > >282 James Linville_ Dothan, AL> > > >283 Sarah Linville - Dothan, AL> > > >284. Patience Kimbril Lockhart, AL> > > >285. Debbie Manning - Florala, Al> > > >286. Frank Manning - Florala, Al> > > >287. Arthur Truett, DeFuniak Springs, FL> > > >288. Margie Truett, DeFuniak Springs, F L> > > >289. Judy Williams, DeFuniak Springs, FL> > > >290. Arraine Cruikshank,Lakeland, FL> > > >291. Mary J. Colville, Seacrest Beach FL> > > >292. Lilyan Lewis,Panama City,FL> > > >293 Michael Roy, Lynn Haven, FL> > > >294 Gerald R. Pistoresi> > > >295 Robert Galvani, Ca.> > > >296 Michael Galvani, WA> > > >297. Paticia Montoux, TX> > > >298 Janet L. Hilton, Carrollton, TX.> > > >299 James L.D.Hilton,Carrollton, TX> > > >300 Nancy Hatcher, Carrollton, TX> > > >301. Eileen Rearick, Frisco, TX.> > > >302. Elaine Boren, Dallas, TX> > > >303. Jeanne Gangas, Dallas, Tx.> > > >304. Zelda Dies, Austin, TX> > > >305. Sarah Ritchie, Katy, TX> > > >306. John Rowin, TX> > > >307. Sarah Rowin, TX> > > >308.Camilla Hall , Tx> > > >309.. Richard Harris , TX.> > > & gt;310 Celia Meyerholz, Miami, FL> > > >311. Laura Lincoln, Orange Park, Fl.> > > >312. LINDA B. COOK, ORANGE PARK, FL> > > >313. Tracy Hastings, St. August in e, FL> > > >314. Mardi S. --Ormond beach, Fl> > > >315. James O. Harper, Holly Hill, Fl> > > >316 Larry Harper Dresden, Ohio> > > >317 Shirley Harper Dresden, Ohio> > > >318 Ann Miller, Marblehead, Ohio> > > >319 Kathy Hedges, Middleport, Ohio> > > >320 C.M. Werry, Belpre, Ohio> > > >321 Patty R. Lyon, Huntington, WV> > > >322 Guy K. Lyon, Huntington, WV> > > >323 Connie Mraz, Dickinson, TX> > > >324 Freddie J. Mraz, Dickinson, TX> > > >325. Linda Wiggins, Texas City, TX> > > >326. Susan Boyd, Salem, NH> > > >327. Dennis Boyd, Salem, NH> > > >328. Carol Lee Mason, Underhill, VT> > > >329. Holly Poulin, Underhill, VT> > > >330. H arold Ray, Narragansett, RI> > > >331. Sam Clementino, New Bedford, MA> > > >332. Eugene Christiansen, Taunton, MA> > > >333. Laurie Lena Ma> > > >334. Pauline M. Mello, E. Taunton, MA> > > >335. David Mello, E. Taunton, MA> > > >336. Mark Emery, Foxboro MA> > > >337. Richard Robinso, Randolph M a >338. Kevin Robinson,> >Medway> >MA> > > >339. Walter Scribner, Medway Ma> > > >340. Brian Bowler, Cumberland RI> > > >341. Janet Bowler Cumberland, RI> > > >342. Carolyn Scire, Warwick, RI> > > >343.Diane Dolan, Warwick, RI> > > >344. Bacon, Valerie , Smithfield, RI> > > >345. Al Brown, Cranston, RI> > > >346 Donna Riley TX> > > >347. Judy Riley, Tx.> > > >348 Jim Riley, Tx.> > > >349mildred massey texas> > > >350 richard massey texas> > > >351 Vicky Wise,Texas> > > >352 Yvette Adams, Texas> > > >353 Johnny Adams, Texas> > > >354 Elizabeth Sheets, Texas> > > >355 Brent Sheets, Texas> > > >356. Terri Caldwell> > > >357. A. Garrett, TX> > > >358. P. Coble, TX> > > >359. B Husband, Midland, TX> > > >360. M Talley, Midland, TX> > > >361 J Talley, Midland, TX> > > >362 D Talley, Hobbs, NM> > > >363 JD Husband, Midland, TX> > > >364 Rodney Long, Andrews, Tx> > > >365. Gail Riggan, Midland Texas> > > >366. Tim Riggan, Midland, Tex as> > > >367 Bill Green, Midland, Texas> > > >368 B Hodnett Ft. Worth,Texas> > > >369 Betty Ayars, Sulphur Springs,Tx.> > > >370 Jerry Ayars " " "> > > >371. Ronnie Jones, Ft.Worth, TX> > > >372. Mildred Jones, Ft. Worth,TX> > > >373. Charisa Bryant Amarillo Tx.> > > >374. Dede Mcgavock Amarillo TX> > > >375. Suzette Hopper Yantis Tx> > > >376. Linda Moore, Gainesville, Tx> > > >377. Gurli Coambes, Denton, TX> > > >378. Carla Raley, Texas*/ __/*> > > >*/379. Tammy Groves, TX__/*> > > >380. Judy Fahl, Richmond, VA> > > >381. Amelia Lightner, Richmond, VA> > > >382. Joyce Hicks, Richmond, VA> > > >383. E Anderson, VA> > > >384. Debra Mihm, S anta Paula, CA> > > >385. Carla Mihm, St Paul, MN> > > >386. Wanda J. Mooney, Burnsville, MN.> > > >387. Rochelle Schrodt, St. Paul, MN> > > >388. Janet Droneck> > > >389. Shannon Gille, MN> > > >390. Daniel DesMarais, MN> > > >391. Patti Gralewski, MN> > > >392. Elizabeth A. Martin, MN> > > > 393 Anna Meador, Mo> > > >394. Cheryl Callahan,:In.> > > >395. Michael Callahan, IN> > > >396. Lisa Callahan, IN> > > >397. Geraldine Waldorf, CA> > > >398. Pamela Simurda, Ca> > > >399. Michelle VanDusen, Ca> > > >400. Emily Erickson, IA> > > >401. Elizabeth Bechtol, IA> > > >402 Dwayne Bechtol, NC> > > >403 Nancy Bechtol, NC> > > >404 Ed Woolsey Mo> > > >405 Patsy Woo lsey Mo> > > >406 Ethan Woolsey Mo> > > >407 McKensie Woolsey Mo> > > >408 L.Corrochano NY> > > >409 Miilina Corrchano Ft. Myers, FL.> > > >410. Stacey Furbay Ft. Myers, FL> > > >411. Amy Harris, Lehigh Acres, FL> > > >412.Rocky Ford , Estero,Florida> > > >413. Rebecca Barota, Perryopolis, PA> > > >414. Tiffin Barthelmas, Circleville, OH> > > >415 Kathryn Hosfeld, Columbus, OH.> > > >416. Carol Macedonia, Steubenville, OH> > > >417. Charlyn Hickey, Weirton, WV> > > >418. Nina Jones, Charleston, SC> > > >4 1 9. Martin Maness, Wheeling, WV> > > > >420. Tricia Wilson, Glen Dale, WV> > > > 421. Pam Long-Secrest Moundsville, WV> > > >422. Mindy Gittings, Moundsville,WV> > > > 423. Amelia Adams, Aurora, Co> > > > 424. George Adams, Aurora, Co> > > > 425. Gary Adams, Aurora, Co.> > > 426. Rick Bieze> > > 427. Donna Stanish, IL> > > 428. Michael Stanish, Il> > > 429. Bob Spapperi, FL> > > 430.James & Mary Carani St. Charles Illinois> > > 431 Monty Blatt, Sycamore, IL> > > 432 Joane Blatt, Sycamore, IL> > > 433 Susan Hayunga Lake In The Hills, IL> > 434 Phil Hayunga Lake In The Hills, IL> > 435. Donna Stanish, IL> >436. Michael Stanish, Il> >437. Bob Spapperi, FL> >438.James & Mary Carani St. Charles Illinois> >439 Monty Blatt, Sycamore, IL> >440 Joane Blatt, Sycamore, IL> >441 Wendi Venable, Crystal Lake, IL> >442 Stacy Curtis, Langdon NH> >443 J. M. Deitsch, Boston, MA> >444 B. S. Vanas, Boston, MA> >445. K. Wiegand, Portage, MI> >446. Sherry Aasen, MN> >447. Corey Mangseth, MN> >448. Maya Aasen, MN> >449. Olga Simonson, MN> >450. Mike Simonson, MN> >451. Mark Simonson, MN> >452. Jim Simonson, MN> >453. Sharon Simonson, MN> >454. Tim Aasen, MN> >455. Anna Murren, MN> >456. Steve Mangseth, MN> >457. Linda Reed Fuhrman, MN> >458. Vicky Heitzman, MN> >459. John Heitzman, MN> >460 Jane Sandau, MN> >461. Robin Montague, MN> >462. Kim Fors, MN.> >463. Carol Gulbranson, MN> >464. James A Gulbranson II, MN 465-JoAnn Gulbranson, N.D. 466. Tayandy Braver, Sioux Falls, SD 467. David Braver, Sioux Falls, SD 468. Shelly Snider, Bloomington, IL If you don't forward the petition and just stop it, we will lose all thesenames. If you do not want to sign it, please just forward it to anyone who mightwant a voice. Thank you!!! To add your name, click on "forward". You will be able to add your name atthe bottom of the list and then forward it to your friends. I just copied it and pasted it to a new email - then I was able to add myname. > >> >THE 1,000TH PERSON SEND IT ON TO THE FOLLOWING E-MAIL ADDRESS:> >> >President@WhiteHouse.gov <mailto resident%40WhiteHouse.gov
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 07, 2006 02:04 PM |
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Edited by maretti at 14:04, 07 Dec 2006.
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Blaming another weak group of people for your own misery is a classic. The US is the richest country in the world, you have tons of people who live in extreme wealth and still you attack some poor emigrants. You spent billions of dollars on a war which you could have spent for social security, how about complaining about that instead?, or how about complaining about taxcuts for the extremely rich people? You are not fighting your real enemy im affraid, these miserable conditions described exsists allready with or without emmigrants getting social services.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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lkru33
Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
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posted December 07, 2006 03:47 PM |
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Quote:
Blaming another weak group of people for your own misery is a classic. The US is the richest country in the world, you have tons of people who live in extreme wealth and still you attack some poor emigrants. You spent billions of dollars on a war which you could have spent for social security, how about complaining about that instead?, or how about complaining about taxcuts for the extremely rich people? You are not fighting your real enemy im affraid, these miserable conditions described exsists allready with or without emmigrants getting social services.
Believe it or not, not everyone in the United States lives in extreme wealth. For those who have worked their entire life just to have a stable income when they retire, I think it isn't too much to ask for those who receive SS, to have contributed. I'm sure you would feel the same if it were the case in your country.
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted December 07, 2006 03:52 PM |
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This is an issue of granting people social security that at the time were illegal and at the time were committing felonies. I’m all for us being the riches nation and spreading the wealth to those that need it. I do feel however that while we have people that need to live off of social security that they have legally paid into it need to be taken care of first. Along with that holding the employers accountable for the roll that they play in hiring these illegal’s knowing that they are just that, illegal.
It is great to preach on the soapbox and say that we need to tap out our resources so that we can remain the great nation that is willing to just overlook everything. The fact is if we don’t synch the belt up on the giving hand we will be the ones calling ourselves a third world country. We may not even see it in our life time, so therefore it is easy to feel for all that come over here and just be willing to provide for them while your neighbor struggles to legitimately get social services to help them.
For those that have put in for years and have a contributed up to date into social security, they should be allowed to go ahead and collect, using this as a compromise. Then there needs be the common knowledge to those that are still coming over here in massive numbers that this will not apply to them and they need to be held accountable by forfeiting anything that is earned when it comes to SS in the future. I’m not cold hearted nor racist, I just feel that enough is enough and we need to reevaluate how far we are willing to go before we end up with nothing.
So I think that we could compromise on a bill like this but at the same time make it clear that we will not tolerate illegal’s being here for years using social services and working illegally whether they are paying in or not.
So no Maretti, I’m not blaming the “weaker group of people for my misery.” There are the employers and our laws to begin with that need to be held accountable for such things. The story about the women’s parents is not my story, so lets be careful how we word “MY MISERY.” Yes Maretti there is a lot to be said for the amount that is being spent on this second Vietnam War and that is a completely different issue that needs a whole other thread.
When they come here and obtain a fake SS card they know what they are doing and have no regard for the victims lives that they impact. Identify theft is a very serious problem and those that are issuing the cards and receiving them need to be punished. This is not about the “weaker” group and my lack of empathy for them. When this identify theft happens it can completely destroys the lives of those that it is being done to, including their own work history and what they have paid into. There has been cases where people trying to collect unemployment were turned down because they were told that they worked during that period, when in fact they did not but someone who stole that number did.
So before everyone starts going off on their tangents lets understand and go through the list like a bunch of two years olds. Ok are you ready???
1.No I’m not racist.
2.No I don’t want us to screw people out of what they earned, just have set guidelines for the future.
3.Yes I understand that they paid in billions to SS and that is why we are more accepting of this.
4.Yes I love the diversity that other cultures bring over here and would not want that to change, I just want them be over here legally and stop stealing our SS numbers.
5.NO this does not come from some sick ordeal that happened in my diaper training days.
6.Yes I know that they have worked hard to work for employers that only pay them minimum wage or even lower and the employers need to be held accountable.
So I have covered some of what you cute HC’s will try to throw at me.
This is an article in the Washington Times that I thought says a lot.
Illegals granted Social Security
By Charles Hurt
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The Senate voted yesterday to allow illegal aliens to collect Social Security benefits based on past illegal employment -- even if the job was obtained through forged or stolen documents.
"There was a felony they were committing, and now they can't be prosecuted. That sounds like amnesty to me," said Sen. John Ensign, the Nevada Republican who offered the amendment yesterday to strip out those provisions of the immigration reform bill. "It just boggles the mind how people could be against this amendment."
"It makes no sense to reward millions of illegal immigrants for criminal behavior while our Social Security system is already in crisis," said Sen. Jim DeMint, South Carolina Republican. "Why in the world would we endorse this criminal activity with federal benefits? The Senate missed a big opportunity to improve this bill, and I doubt American seniors will be pleased with the result."
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted December 07, 2006 03:55 PM |
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Edited by Consis at 15:57, 07 Dec 2006.
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Violent_Flower,
This is something we are handling each in our own respective communities, state legislatures, and congressional representatives. Heroes Community (while an exceptional and wonderful message board/chat forum) is not the best place to talk about this. This is going to be a major influence in the 2008 presidential election. The candidate will undoubtedly talk about this. While Heroes Community does have many American members, it does not relegate itself to their interests. This message board is more largely a european message board created by a russian-born Australian.
The only reason I am able to create such threads as "United States President: 2008" is because I know about 4 or 5 people will post there for certain. Otherwise this place sticks mostly to its strong opposition to our Iraq war. There are more threads than you can count . . . describing why people are unhappy with the U.S. while only a handful talk about our country's issues. And those threads that do talk about our country's issues don't see much participation from most the American members.
My advice to you: try to think like a european if you want more participation in your threads.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 07, 2006 05:25 PM |
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Quote:
Believe it or not, not everyone in the United States lives in extreme wealth. For those who have worked their entire life just to have a stable income when they retire, I think it isn't too much to ask for those who receive SS, to have contributed. I'm sure you would feel the same if it were the case in your country.
I don't think we look upon US like that. I am well aware that there are many americans living in poverty, such issues find their way to danish newspapers now and then. Poverty is nearly a nonexisting phenomena in the welfare state Denmark. The wealth of the average citizen in Denmark is among the highest in the world along with Norway. Healthcare, eduacation etc. is free. Unemployed people have decent income via the social security. Many politicians find this problematic because they feel that won't take a job because it won't pay off. As I see it one of the main differences is the distribution of wealth in the US. In Denmark it's much more evenly distributed through taxes. I guess you would call that part of our system socialistic.
And violent_flower, aren't you a little naive to forward that petition?
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted December 07, 2006 05:58 PM |
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Naïve? Um, no not in particular but thanks for asking. Naïve is not understanding what this will eventually do our country if some cap is not put on these issues, or maybe we should use the word ignorant. I would love to live in a country where healthcare, school, etc is free, however because we don’t have our **** in order here, this is just not possible. So then you have to take one of the few things that we do have, such as social security, and try to protect it as best you can. There is no doubt that they make up billions of dollars within the SS system and that they have worked for it, that I’m not disputing. This is presented on much larger scale of how the SS numbers are illegally granted to them by not only your general scum off the street but by employers as well. It runs you into all kinds of issues when it comes to them collecting grants within school systems, running out certain funds for social service programs, and even a large amount of identity theft problems. We need to work within the system to change laws in order for there to be stable conditions for the future.
So with that being said Ecoris, I would not use the word naïve but maybe the word concerned and trying to do something on a small scale as one citizen. Thank you for your reply…
By the way I have never seen you on, it is nice to meet you..
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 07, 2006 06:57 PM |
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Interesting thread.
Although the USA are leader in many (important) categories, their social system (including healthcare, inoccupation etc...) isn't modern standard nowadays. Maybe that is the reason why u have so many people living in poberty. You will rarely find a western european country with that much poberty like the US have. I still can't belive HEALTHINESS and EDUCATION is related to RICHNESS in a modern country.
So I think maretti has a good point here. If the US government would take care of their own people first, the problem about "illegal aliens" using the social system would be solves much easier.
I do understand the opinion of violent_flower very good. We had a similar debatte in germany not too long ago. All the so called "asylums" could use all the features our social system had to offer. They were given goodies, appartements, furniture and stuff, so they lived even "wealthier" than many germans themselves.
The government reacted though. The requirements for a validation of a case of asylum were set much higher. The numbers of asylum seekers decreased "dramatically" in the following years. There isn't any debate about asylum seekers anymore in germany.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 07, 2006 10:21 PM |
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"Believe it or not, not everyone in the United States lives in extreme wealth."
Really?
First of all I didnt take a stand on this isue. All I said was that this petition is disgusting. Cause what is the purpose with this little story if it isnt connecting these "illegal aliens" with "real" americans poverty and thereby creating an enemy you can blame for your problems? Or whats the point in this passage:
"While the possible "illegal" alien in front of her at the grocery store buys the name brands,my mom goes for the generic brands, and day old breads. She doesn't have out of state calling on her phone, because she can't afford it and shops at the thrift shops and dollar stores while the "illegal" aliens go to Macy's, Gap, J.C. Penny, Banana Republic, etc."
The fact is that the poverty isnt the emigrants fault, the wealth is there, its just a question about giving everyone a fair share.
Another thing is whether the emmigrants should get social benefits or not. If the government didnt want these people in the country they could kick many of them out. But the fact is that these people constitute a large and indispensable workforce and is needed in the country. They have unattractive jobs with little or no rights. Is it so terrible to give people you want to work for you some basic rights? Maybe, if it means it will hurt other people. My point is it dosent have to.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted December 07, 2006 11:04 PM |
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First off the poverty issue is connected with social services and programs that they are allowed to use, which if all this so called money was there I wouldn’t have a problem with. The fact is that it is not or it is not being disclosed and channeled properly. Poverty and what causes is it is a separate issue. Although by the employers under paying them it takes us out of jobs. So we would not "need" them in the work force, as you put it, if jobs were not offered to them at three dollars an hour. Not to mention if they were legal, according to our equal opportunity, they have just as good of a chance as I do in getting employed. The thread is about the bill that was passed in May and if you read the thread where I explained all that, you would see what it is about.
Whether poverty is the fault of the emigrants or not is beside the point, it is what they do utilize while they are illegal emigrants and have no business using until their legal status is just that, legal. The petition is to get the currant bill overturned that states we should just keep giving them SS that they have paid into while they were illegal. I have stated my ideas about what we could do in the future and let them have what they have already earned.
I have had unattractive jobs with no rights and been fired for unclear reasons and laid off so that I could be replaced by the illegal that will work for pennies. So lets not tap into that frustration because that again is another thread. This is not necessary their fault but the fault of the employers.
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 07, 2006 11:17 PM |
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Any comments to this passage in the petition you have signed?:
While the possible "illegal" alien in front of her at the grocery store buys the name brands,my mom goes for the generic brands, and day old breads. She doesn't have out of state calling on her phone, because she can't afford it and shops at the thrift shops and dollar stores while the "illegal" aliens go to Macy's, Gap, J.C. Penny, Banana Republic, etc.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted December 07, 2006 11:54 PM |
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PETITION FOR: President Bush
Mr. President: The petition below is a protest against the recent vote of the senate, which was to allow illegal aliens access to our social security! We demand access to our social security. We demand that you and all congressional representatives require citizenship for anyone to be eligible for social services in the United States.
This is the petition and no it is not worded the way that I would word it however, the idea is still there. What part of an illegal emigrant needs to achieve legal citizenship, there own social security number and identify, and we need to stop aiding this, don’t you understand?
“While the possible "illegal" alien in front of her at the grocery store buys the name brands, my mom goes for the generic brands, and day old breads. She doesn't have out of state calling on her phone, because she can't afford it and shops at the thrift shops and dollar stores while the "illegal" aliens go to Macy's, Gap, J.C. Penny, Banana Republic, etc.”
This was not the actual petition, the petition is below that and not very well written. This was just a story that she wanted to tell.
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted December 08, 2006 09:56 AM |
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OH NO i can only buy normal bread not special bread and I can only eat pizza
SAVE ME
what about this kid?
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John says to live above hell.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted December 08, 2006 12:07 PM |
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Quote:
what about this kid?
That kid dies, that's what happens. Maybe it sounds extremely cold, but that kid is a non-issue as far as this discussion is concerned. That kid's life is a non-issue. That's reality.
A picture like that does nothing but sidetrack the discussion with emotional issues. Anyone making policy decisions on a national or international basis can never allow themselves to be swayed by emotional issues like that. They can't look at the welfare of one individual, but must look at the big picture....always.
Maybe compare this to a doctor who must harden him/herself, so the emotions resulting from a lost patient don't bring them down to the point where they can no longer function. In order to do their job, they can't let that happen. Same with policymakers when looking at issues like this. If they can't make the hard decisions, they shouldn't be in their positions.
It's so easy for people to say the poor should be helped. But people so often ignore the real scope of the problem. When we are talking about immigrants to the US, we are talking about very large numbers of people. Over the last 10 years, just the number of *legal* immigrants is larger than the entire population of many of the smaller European countries. The total number of living legal immigrants in the US is more than the entire population of Australia. The number of illegal aliens is vague, but I'll say it's larger than the population of Denmark, and smaller than the population of Austria.
Now to the actual petition. (best for last)
This so-called legislation had the smell of misinformation all over it, so I looked it up. Like all misinformation, it has a small element of truth to it. The legislation being referred to will allow illegal aliens to collect social security benefits *ONLY IF* they later become naturalized citizens. And they do not get credit for any work done prior to naturalization. Only worked performed legally after naturalization counts toward their credit. In other words, they must qualify like anyone else, by paying into the system for a certain period of time, with benefits increasing as payment into the system increases.
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted December 08, 2006 04:55 PM |
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Quote:
This so-called legislation had the smell of misinformation all over it, so I looked it up. Like all misinformation, it has a small element of truth to it. The legislation being referred to will allow illegal aliens to collect social security benefits *ONLY IF* they later become naturalized citizens. And they do not get credit for any work done prior to naturalization. Only worked performed legally after naturalization counts toward their credit. In other words, they must qualify like anyone else, by paying into the system for a certain period of time, with benefits increasing as payment into the system increases.
They do have to become leagal in order to collect but they get to collect everything that they paid in while they were illigal. The work that they did does count toward what they get to collect. Like I stated it would be a comprimise to give them that credit but make it clear for those in the furture that we will not tolerate illigal workers.Thanks for yor reply... Here is an article from The Washington Times:
Illegals granted Social Security
By Charles Hurt
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
May 19, 2006
The Senate voted yesterday to allow illegal aliens to collect Social Security benefits based on past illegal employment -- even if the job was obtained through forged or stolen documents.
"There was a felony they were committing, and now they can't be prosecuted. That sounds like amnesty to me," said Sen. John Ensign, the Nevada Republican who offered the amendment yesterday to strip out those provisions of the immigration reform bill. "It just boggles the mind how people could be against this amendment."
The Ensign amendment was defeated on a 50-49 vote.
"We all know that millions of undocumented immigrants pay Social Security and Medicare taxes for years and sometimes decades while they work to contribute to our economy," said Sen. John McCain, Arizona Republican.
"The Ensign amendment would undermine the work of these people by preventing lawfully present immigrant workers from claiming Social Security benefits that they earned before they were authorized to work in our community," he said. "If this amendment were enacted, the nest egg that these immigrants have worked hard for would be taken from them and their families."
Mr. Ensign was among 44 Republicans and five Democrats who voted to block such payouts.
"It makes no sense to reward millions of illegal immigrants for criminal behavior while our Social Security system is already in crisis," said Sen. Jim DeMint, South Carolina Republican. "Why in the world would we endorse this criminal activity with federal benefits? The Senate missed a big opportunity to improve this bill, and I doubt American seniors will be pleased with the result."
Sen. Patrick J. Leahy, Vermont Democrat, said it would be unfair to deny illegals the benefits.
"We should not steal their funds or empty their Social Security accounts," he said. "That is not fair. It does not reward their hard work or their financial contributions. It violates the trust that underlies the Social Security Trust Fund."
Within hours, the vote had become an issue in this fall's elections, raised by a Republican challenger to Sen. Debbie Stabenow, Michigan Democrat.
"Instead of protecting the retirement security of Americans who are earning an honest living and abiding by the laws of our country, Debbie Stabenow sided with people who are here illegally and abuse our Social Security system," Oakland County, Mich., Sheriff Michael Bouchard said in a press release. "Allowing illegal immigrants to use their illegal work history as credit towards receiving Social Security benefits shows that Debbie Stabenow has forgotten who she is supposed to be working for in the U.S. Senate."
The Senate also yesterday approved an amendment to adopt English as the nation's official language, while reversing course from the day before on protections for U.S. workers who will face new competition from unskilled immigrant labor under the Senate bill. In addition, senators voted last night to kill an amendment that would have specified that the guest-worker program will not provide visas that would provide a path to citizenship.
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted December 08, 2006 06:56 PM |
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Binabik,
Quote:
A picture like that does nothing but sidetrack the discussion with emotional issues. Anyone making policy decisions on a national or international basis can never allow themselves to be swayed by emotional issues like that. They can't look at the welfare of one individual, but must look at the big picture....always.
I'm afraid the picture is relevant. But what Titanium_Alloy said alongside it is not relevant. The picture represents "point A". The United States of America represents "point B". From thus they came and here they have arrived. The question now is: where they should go.
Quote:
Maybe compare this to a doctor who must harden him/herself, so the emotions resulting from a lost patient don't bring them down to the point where they can no longer function. In order to do their job, they can't let that happen. Same with policymakers when looking at issues like this. If they can't make the hard decisions, they shouldn't be in their positions.
The standards to which we hold our leaders are above ourselves. I'm not convinced that a leader void of emotion is the best kind of leader. There was an episode of Star Trek(T.N.G.) in which the first officer, William Riker, was asked: "Have you lost many people working under your command?" To which he replied, "Yes I have." Then questioner continued: "Do you ever get used to it?" At this he turned to look her directly in the eyes and said, "As a commander I hope I never do. I hope that day never comes. The day that I become used to it is the day that I become unfit to wear this uniform."
Quote:
It's so easy for people to say the poor should be helped. But people so often ignore the real scope of the problem. When we are talking about immigrants to the US, we are talking about very large numbers of people.
I believe the connection is there. I also believe that the bible makes it clear: poverty and humanity go hand in hand. The poor impoverished persons of this world will never go away. This we know. And yet as unending as it may sound, those who choose to confront it are strong in spirit and the most noble of us all.
I many strong feelings about this. And I'm not sure this is the right place to say what I feel about it. However the fact remains that I recognize I am a "Haves" while many more than I could ever imagine are "Have nots".
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted December 08, 2006 07:22 PM |
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I think that I will contact you personally and we can discuss it at that point. Thank you for what insight you have given, it is greatly appreciated as always.
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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Nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted December 08, 2006 10:12 PM |
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This is simply outrageous...
How dare you generalize a large group of the American population and blame them for the misery of the poor!
If anything is to blame, its US' social security system, which is worse than in some third world countries.
And if a country spends more on military defense than the next ten countries in the list of largest military spenders combined, resource distribution is an issue.
Besides, just about all 'native Americans' were immigrants once. Are the fortress's gates barred now, and does that mean people who seek refuge in the US should be left to die?
No man is illegal
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 09, 2006 01:12 PM |
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Quote:
And violent_flower, aren't you a little naive to forward that petition?
All I meant by that was that it looks like one of these emails that the original sender wants to spread as much as possible, a hoax to be clear. Countless mails like that one has circled around for months and years. Do you think 1. Mary Takami, Calif. exists, or the next handful of people that allegedly have signed? President@WhiteHouse.gov, eh?
Your concern however seems genuine, and I'm sure that the problem is an important issue "over there", even though I've got no basis to know that. I was under the impression that most immigrants came from México and thus lived in the south western states, but you live in Illinois, right?
Immigration is caused by differences in wealth and opportunities. Naturally many many people choose to leave their country and immigrate to the states. They do it on a large scale in southern Europe as well, but that's another story.
You can always point out that many people are worse off that yourself, but that's irrelevant. The problems violent_flower is adressing have nothing to do with the extreme poverty in Africa. Even though it's good to have a sense of proportion (after all, poverty is a relative term), does knowing that some people are much poorer that yourself make you feel better? Clearly not, so please spare us from that in this thread in the future, TitaniumAlloy.
Quote:
Besides, just about all 'native Americans' were immigrants once. Are the fortress's gates barred now
Yes, they are. In the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th immigrants were welcome in the US, they needed them. This was a positive development because it meant that the surplus workers in Europe (who were a result of the industrialization and a growth in population) had a place to go, and the transition took more than a century. Today the population growth in the 3rd world countries is much more rapid, but they're not welcome in the western part of the world. They aren't need nowadays. Europe will face a lack of labour, but it can be covered by workers from eastern Europe and Turkey. So even though americans are decendents from immigrants themselves (except the real native americans) times have changed.
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 16, 2006 12:54 PM |
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You probably should take a different, look or aproach to this issue. The US social system is quite horrible. And that is the biggest problem. The fact that the Senate has allowed "illegal" imigrants to gain its benefits, would mean anything, if the social system was properly structured. The US is one of the wealthiest countries in the world and could easily support a properly structured social system. But due to the US goverments economical and social belives it is where it is.
Do not blame the immigrants for the failure of the Social Security system, but blame your goverment, for they are responsible for the way it functions, or doesnt function. They are the real issue here.
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