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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Barack Obama -- dialogue on his candidacy
Thread: Barack Obama -- dialogue on his candidacy This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted January 28, 2007 05:54 AM

Barack Obama -- dialogue on his candidacy

Since I have essentially hijacked the Obama-smoker thread with my diatribes which are rather off-topic in the alternative, rather light-hearted thread, I've decided to start a new thread on this particular subject.

My first response was based on Consis' first elaboration as set forth below...

Quote:
I'm Not A Racist

I think perhaps that Obama is absolutely a kind, generous, and capable leader. I think (however) he represents something much different. All the people I've spoken to about him can't seem to see past the fact that he's black. When ever I ask what he's done people respond with how he was the first black to do "this" or "that" in an exceptionally ranked university.

I honestly believe that if he became president then people would start demanding apologies for our American history of slavery. And once the apologies start coming, people will start demanding reparations in court.

In the simplest way I can possibly describe . . . Obama is not what people think he is. He is a great guy but all people can see is the fact that he's black and the larger implications of what that means to them personally. It's entirely ridiculous and I can't stand it. I won't stand for it.

When people talk of Colin Powell the tone is much different. He isn't some perfected political ivy-leaguer immigrant. He is a very intelligent man and I believe he is much more down to earth. Obama says too much of what is popular(much the way Clinton once did). He's too smooth for my taste while Powell is far more hardy and has a much more realistic view of the world.

Why do I compare Obama to Powell? I do it because I want to prove that I'm not a racist.

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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted January 28, 2007 05:58 AM
Edited by Peacemaker at 19:24, 04 Jan 2008.

I can't believe what I'm reading!!!

I can't believe what I'm reading!!!

LOL --

Consis, you frequently have very insightful observations. Then once in a while you really crack me up with some of the things you say.


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I honestly believe that if he became president then people would start demanding apologies for our American history of slavery. And once the apologies start coming, people will start demanding reparations in court.
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(ROFL).... And if Clinton were elected bands of marauding underpaid women (me among them) would swell the streets demanding years of backpay for the fact that since WWII we have historically been paid sixty cents on the dollar for doing work identical to our male counterparts.


quote:
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In the simplest way I can possibly describe . . . Obama is not what people think he is.
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Consis, I think the most troubling thing about your entire post is that you seem to be basing your judgment of this person on other people's judgments. Isn't the critical question what you think he is? Maybe you should read his books and decide for yourself, rather than focusing on the perceptions of others. Or, if you are focusing on the perceptions of others for purposes of determining whether he is electable, then try watching C-Span's Washington Journal in the mornings and listen to the callers-in have to say, on both the Democratic and Republican lines. While you're at it, listen to what the callers-in have to say about Hillary Clinton, and decide for yourself which candidate you think is more electable.


quote:
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I think perhaps that Obama is absolutely a kind, generous, and capable leader. I think (however) he represents something much different. All the people I've spoken to about him can't seem to see past the fact that he's black...

He is a great guy but all people can see is the fact that he's black and the larger implications of what that means to them personally. It's entirely ridiculous and I can't stand it. I won't stand for it.
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It's pretty clear that Obama himself has long since seen past the fact of his heritage, which makes him perhaps one of the most qualified individuals to stand up for the Constitution. And funny thing is, when I talk to others about Obama their big fear is that he won't be electable because he's black despite the fact that, to a person, these people declare that this will not stop them from voting for him themselves. I try to remind people I speak with not to make this percieved unelectability a self-fulfilling prophecy. On the contrary, the polls so far tend to establish two things: first, that his mixed race is not a major factor in peoples' consideration, and second, that he is capturing a huge amount of attention from the moderate constituency -- both Democrat and Republican -- throughout the U.S.

The one point that people have the biggest reservation about is his lack of experience (hardly the "perfected political" you allege him to be). To which concern I would respond that, while partly sharing it myself, I must assert that experience has apparently not been terribly helpful of late in the White House, particularly when it is not accompanied by good judgment.

I submit to you that Obama makes up for in judgment what he lacks in experience. He's CLEARLY one of the smartest pair of feet to hit the Senate floor in decades, and not only would surround himself with a cabinet whose experience would make up for his lack of it, he would further ACTUALLY LISTEN to them. I think you can look to Swarzenagger's stint as governor to see that even inexperienced but politically talented individuals can do some pretty amazing bipartisan work when they choose good advisors and then follow the advice.


quote:
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When people talk of Colin Powell the tone is much different. He isn't some perfected political ivy-leaguer immigrant. He is a very intelligent man and I believe he is much more down to earth. Obama says too much of what is popular(much the way Clinton once did).
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(BTW -- Wasn't it you whom a few years ago I was try to persuade to consider a vote for Colin Powell, in response to your protests that he was a General and therefore unfit to be president because of his excessively military status?)

Colin Powell is the son of Jamaican immigrants, raised in the Bronx and attended George Washington University. He was an average student (probably bored) who went on to excel in the military and political arenas, becoming perhaps one of the most brilliant statesmen in this country for decades. He was the first Black Secretary of State, by the way, and during those early days much was spoken about it. I can guarandamntee you, if he were running for president, those "other people" you've been talking to would be all over themselves about the fact that he would be the first Black president of the United States. Would you let that stop you from voting for Powell were he to run?

Barack Obama is the son of a Kenyan national and a woman from Kansas. He was also born in Hawaii (which is part of the United States last I checked, and clearly no immigrant which would have disqualified him from candidacy to begin with). He attended Occidental College the first couple of years then graduated from Columbia University and eventually Harvard Law School. He is also a gifted speaker, writer, public speaker, and apparently also a gifted politician, being a uniter not a divider.


quote:
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Whenever I ask what he's done people respond with how he was the first black to do "this" or "that" in an exceptionally ranked university.
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In fact, Obama became editor-in-chief of the Harvard Law Review. He happened to be the first Black one. Having been to law school I understand the significance of being the editor of any school's law review, let alone Harvard's, no matter what flavor one is.

I too ruffle at the overemphasis on the fact that he was "the first Black Harvard Law Review editor" or that Hillary Clinton would be "the first woman president" and/or any other such emphasis on these people's race or gender, rather than their qualifications. In fact I think it is appalling that we hold this country and its culture out to be the leader of the free world, and still engage in such antequated social thinking.

So, what does it mean to be an editor for the Harvard Law Review and does it have any value in its own merits?

Founded in part by former Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, Jr., prominent alumni of the Harvard Law Review include Supreme Court Justices Edward Sanford, Felix Frankfurter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Antonin Scalia, Stephen Breyer and Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., as well as Secretary of State Dean Acheson, Charles Hamilton Houston, Alger Hiss, Archibald MacLeish, Judge Richard Posner, U.S. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Chris Cox, New York governor-elect Eliot Spitzer, Harvard Law Dean Elena Kagan, Yale Law Dean Harold Koh, former Canadian ambassador Allan Gotlieb, former New York State Solicitor General Preeta D. Bansal and once-and-future Harvard University president Derek Bok.

Notice any pattern here?

In terms of what Obama has done, instead of asking other people what he has done, read his autobiographies and find out for yourself. You might conclude that he's accomplished an extraordinary amount in a very short lifespan so far. The problem here is his age. He hasn't had time enough to do much more and has done a remarkable amount -- more than most people three times his age. But most of it was at the local level and therefore not terribly visible on the national scene. He has not deliberately done "visible" things because it's apparent that he does what he does for the sake of the task itself, not for the sake of visibility as is the case with other politicians of whom you know more. Don't fall into that old hackneyed trap, you know better than that.

The fact is, and it's pretty clear by the tone of his first autobiography, until the past few years he had no idea that he'd be launched into the national presidential eye out of nowhere. This is happening because he's just that good, not out of some decades-old design by him, as is almost always the case with those seeking the presidency. When those around him started seeing what they were seeing, the only natural reaction was to push him in that direction. Knowing his own weaknesses such as youth and inexperience, he's been resisting it for years, and has finally relented to the unrelenting pressure.


quote:
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He's too smooth for my taste while Powell is far more hardy and has a much more realistic view of the world.
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(QUOTES by Barack Obama)


quote:
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Pothead. Junkie. That's where I'd been headed: the final, fatal role of the young would-be black man. Except the highs hadn't been about me trying to prove what a down brother I was. Not by then, anyway. I got high for just the opposite effect, something that could push questions of who I was out of my mind, something that could flatten out the landscape of my heart, blur the edges of my memory. I had discovered that it didn't make any difference whether you smoked reefer in the white classmate's sparkling new van, or in the dorm room of some brother you'd met down at the gym, or on the beach with a couple of Hawaiian kids who had dropped out of school and now spent most of their time looking for an excuse to brawl. You might just be bored, or alone. Everybody was welcome into the club of disaffection. And if the high didn't solve whatever it was that was getting you down, it could at least help you laugh at the world's ongoing folly and see through all the hypocrisy and bull**** and cheap moralism. (1995; taken from the autobiography "Dreams from My Father")
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(Oh, man can I relate to that one)


quote:
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I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. (@2003)
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quote:
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That's silly talk... Talk to my wife. She'll tell me I need to learn to just put my socks in the hamper. (@2005)
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quote:
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Of course I inhaled. That was the point. (2006)
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(That one too)

On what information do you base your assumptions about how Obama perceives "the world?" Have you ever watched him on the Senate floor debating legislation or interviewing Bush's nominees on Senate confirmation panels (or read his books)? You might have a different, perhaps more informed view of Obama's "view of the world" if you did.


quote:
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Why do I compare Obama to Powell? I do it because I want to prove that I'm not a racist.
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Consis, I urge you not to focus on race in your thinking just because others are, whether it be positively or negatively. Here are the real questions: Would he be a good president?

Would he be able to heal the polarized Congress and get anything done? Just watch him bounding down the Senate isle a few times to spur an impromptu caucus of Senators ranging from Hillary Clinton to Tom Tancredo. Just watch as they crowd around him on the Senate floor with their heads together, talking amongst one another, with Barack clearly leading the discussion and laughter -- yes -- laughter erupting among this otherwise unlikely group during a serious discussion about some contentious piece of legislation -- and you will know you're looking a kind of political greatness that hearkens both Colin Powell and Bobby Kennedy all in a single body.

Perhaps our greatest problem right now is a growing instability in the Middle East with no one in the administration apparently either able or willing to engage in any remedial diplomacy. The "Shiia Crescent" is emerging right under our noses and we're not doing a damn thing about it. Anyone who knows anything about international history knows that this situation is perilous, probably beyond any situation in history.

Can you imagine what would happen to the negative global sentiment toward the US if Obama were elected? I confidently predict it would make a near instantaneous turnaround. Will he make a good stateman and ambassador to the rest of the world? I wonder if you would have any serious doubts about this were you to watch him and listen to him yourself for a few months.

But most important of all -- Is he electable? Will the Dems once again be shooting themselves in the foot if they forward him as their candidate in the general election? Early returns say probably not -- he's perceived as a uniter, is well-liked among moderate Republicans as well as Democrats, and is reviled by virtually no one. Alternatively, for better or worse, whether fair or unfair, the fact is that none of these things can be said about Clinton.

None of the rest of it matters if our candidate is not electable. It is what it is and no amount of wishful thinking or rationalization will change it. If we haven't learned that lesson yet then we have learned absolutely nothing in the past six years.


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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted January 28, 2007 06:00 AM bonus applied.
Edited by Peacemaker at 18:53, 28 Jan 2007.

(One MoreThing)

Speaking of favorite quotes, my personal favorite is a quote by Colin Powell. During a beltway soire' shortly after the invasion of Iraq, in response to a statement that Bush was "sleeping like a baby," he responded:

quote:
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So am I. Every two hours I wake up screaming.
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...let me try and crystalize some of my thoughts about Barack Obama.

First of all, Consis, I can't get this "he's Black... he's Black... he's Black" mantra you are spouting out of my head.

Have you forgotten he's also White?

Why is it that just because one has the blood of something less pure than "White" it automatically and completely makes them that "less-than-pure blood"?

As somewhat of a neapolitan ice-cream sort myself, I have a particular understanding and awareness of this strange phenomenon. I have battled all my life with the fact that I have White blood and Indian blood.

Being a breed invisibly marginalizes you. The people in either camp can never understand why you aren't all either one thing or the other thing; both relentlessly scrutinize you for signs of "loyalty" or "disloyalty;" unconsciously perhaps but nevertheless looking for evidence that you are a hidden traitor with alien, frightening, perhaps threatening thoughts, beliefs and ideals. Neither is able to understand that you are neither, and both, and something altogether different at the same time -- that your feet are "in two canoes and you are headed for a split waterfall" as I used to try and describe it.

And neither can completely accept you as one of "them" because your thinking and perceptions incorporate elements that are alien to them.

First I tried to be all one thing, then I tried to be all the other. Neither completely took. Eventually I froze in my canoe-fitted tracks, and that waterfall still lies before me.

I don't think that anyone who hasn't had to grapple with racial identity knows how that invisible marginalization works on you -- how, no matter what you do, you will never be comfortable inside your own "skin," because the color of your skin at once creates inaccurate assumptions and belies an untruth about yourself that you yourself somehow cannot resolve. The expectations placed on you don't fit no matter which side they come from.

And before you get off on any allegations about a "lack of individualism" you might espouse toward me or any other breed you might know, let me remind you that individualism is at the outset defined by the rules of the society you live in. A Kalahari bushman's individualism is tied to how great a leader he is in his community, how profound his spiritual insights for his village are, or how many kills he has had in one season. An American businessman's individualism is tied to how innovative his management and investment techniques are in a given season.

You have no idea how profound your sense of individualism is tied to your social legitimacy until that social legitimacy is taken away from you, or it's never defined by a single set of terms to begin with. When you are tied to two different societies, you have no single set of social terms within which to work. That's the whole problem. If you have not been there, if you have never had a foot in two canoes headed downstream toward a split waterfall, you can neither conceive of it nor speak of it.

Your White husband thinks of global warming (if he believes it at all) as a scientific or perhaps ecological issue. He doesn't understand why you find global warming to be at the outset an ethical, even spiritual dilemma, because he is not spiritually tied to the land in the same way you are.

Your Indian friends don't understand why you try to excel in the same Westen legal system whose Supreme Court produced the Cherokee Trilogy that virtually castrated Indian sovereignty.

And you may as well give up trying to explain your actions to either side; they will think you a traitor or wierdo no matter how eloquent and reasonable you are, because the postulates of your thinking on either issue just aren't there for them.

That's what is amazing about Obama. He's completely comfortable within his own skin. His own racial heritage, while sensitizing him to issues on two sides of a great chasm that others cannot seem to bridge, is no longer a personal drawback for him.

Instead, he ended up incorporating his mixed racial reality into his personality, his thinking, his actions, and his abilities to manifest change in the thinking in those around him, no matter who they are or where they came from. He's turned what for some of us remains a liability into an extraordinary source of strength and ability to unite people who otherwise could not be united. No matter who they are, no matter where they are from, no matter what flavor they are, no matter what political party they belong to. He seems to have a manner about him that makes people around him capable of hearing and understanding things when they come out of his mouth. He's taken the universality of humanity to a level that most of us could only dream of.

And that, my friends, as I can tell you from my personal experience, is a remarkable feat, indeed.

EDIT-by-Lith: QP for the halfbreed part...

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ruby
ruby


Promising
Known Hero
crazed swede
posted January 28, 2007 08:15 PM

I will say, even though I'm not for Obama, it is certainly not for racial reasons. I completely agree with you Peacemaker and you certainly make very good points in terms of election due to race. Needless to say, I have really nothing more to add because you pretty much said it all.
I will say that I was pretty surprised with the way Consis defended his position. I don't see you as a racist, but I find your statement necessary about not voting for him due to race, as if race sets anyone aside for the lesser.
I feel that Obama does a much better job leveling with people and understanding people, than Bush does, seeing where they come from. Obama is a bit of everything while Bush seems to be just something. I'm not for or against Bush, so I won't go out and start ranting, and I still have my own defenitions of a good and an inqualified president.

But I gotta say, this quote gives Obama all my respect-

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I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. (@2003)
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maretti
maretti


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Supreme Hero
posted January 28, 2007 11:07 PM

Im sure 99% of the world population will agree with that quote, also Bush.
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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
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posted January 28, 2007 11:56 PM

Yes the quote is just too simple. You could replace 'war' with a lot of other things that would fit in perfectly well.
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
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Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 29, 2007 03:11 AM

Who cares about that idiot.
WHo cares if he smokes.
He has way too many republican views.
Hes anti abortion.
No matter how much I hate abortion, it always needs to be an option.

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ruby
ruby


Promising
Known Hero
crazed swede
posted January 29, 2007 04:19 AM

Quote:
Im sure 99% of the world population will agree with that quote, also Bush.


That's a pretty rash precentage, and I think we're missing the point of the quote here..

I'm quite sure that this is directed towards what your definition of a rash war is. I'm pretty sure Obama is signaling towards the war declared on Iraq, and personally, I think that the war in Iraq is rash, thus I like this quote. I'm quite sure that the war would never have started if 99% of the population, including Bush, thought that this was a rash war. That quote is entirely based on an opinion of what the current war is about.


And honestly, I don't see what's so bad about having a couple of republican views. He may be labled as a democrat but that doesn't mean he has to be a straight ticket. Everyone liberal in this world doesn't have to be a 100% liberal. I'm neither for example. I'm anti-abortion but I am for gay marriage.

Everyone seems to be making everything about Obama into such a big deal. No one has said he's got a HUGE chance at getting the presidency and hello, the United States has a good time to get everything straight before Bush leaves office.
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Trogdor
Trogdor


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Words in a custom title
posted January 29, 2007 06:38 AM

Quote:
Who cares about that idiot.
WHo cares if he smokes.
He has way too many republican views.
Hes anti abortion.
No matter how much I hate abortion, it always needs to be an option.



A Democrat with Republican views is a centrist.
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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
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Almost there.
posted January 29, 2007 07:32 PM
Edited by violent_flower at 19:36, 29 Jan 2007.

I canít say anything about what Consis wrote because I donít understand what kind of stand you are taking for your country if you are basing your vote upon what others feel he his or isnít.  It is about his beliefs, morals, underlined rational thinking, and in this time period, what he has already brought forth. He will provide the political, moral, and ethical bandage that this country with an open festering wound is in desperate need of.

{quote}BTW -- Wasn't it you whom a few years ago I was try to persuade to consider a vote for Colin Powell, in response to your protests that he was a General and therefore unfit to be president because of his excessively military status?){/quote}

This just made me want to wet myselfÖ I need the name of the thread..


This is the first time in years that I will be voting. This is the first time that I have been really excited about the prospect of this country moving ahead. Bush enjoys blowing **** up (so to speak) and then getting in his political buggy and speed off while glancing back at the shattered pieces he has left behind. Well I believe that Obama will be the one who fixes the childís toy that is handed to him with the wet palms of this country and he will do it with grace.

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
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posted January 29, 2007 09:26 PM

Quote:
That's a pretty rash precentage, and I think we're missing the point of the quote here..

I'm quite sure that this is directed towards what your definition of a rash war is. I'm pretty sure Obama is signaling towards the war declared on Iraq, and personally, I think that the war in Iraq is rash, thus I like this quote. I'm quite sure that the war would never have started if 99% of the population, including Bush, thought that this was a rash war. That quote is entirely based on an opinion of what the current war is about.

Yes, Ruby, of course he's referring to the invasion of Iraq; the quote dates to 2003.
Before or after the declaration? That doesn't really matter.
Being against the war/invasion at that time was less common than nowadays, but it was certainly not controversial. Respect is gained from what you do, not as much as from what you say.
But he is correct, the war or more precisely the part that followed the invasion should have been handled much better. Hasty? Dumb? History will decide that in the future.



Quote:
This is the first time in years that I will be voting.
Are you saying that you usually don't? I am aware that the culture is different in the States on this issue, I think less than 60% of the citizens that may vote choose to do so.
In Denmark the voter turnout is about 85% at parliament elections. I feel that it is my democratic duty as a citizen to give my vote.
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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
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Almost there.
posted January 30, 2007 03:53 AM

{quote}Are you saying that you usually don't? I am aware that the culture is different in the States on this issue, I think less than 60% of the citizens that may vote choose to do so.
In Denmark the voter turnout is about 85% at parliament elections. I feel that it is my democratic duty as a citizen to give my vote.{/quote}

The last time that I voted was when I was eighteen and felt liberated by doing so. There was this power in walking into the both with the shower curtain that surrounded me. I did not grow up in a political family with strong views ether way. I voted because I knew that when I turned eighteen that I could.

The truth is now that Iím older and have my own views on politics I have a greater understanding of whom I should vote for. I also have more knowledge of the way that politics work. So some say that it is your duty to vote, I think that it is a privilege. I also believe that if you are just voting to vote, that it is as detrimental to the whole system then if you donít vote at all. So yes, Iím saying that Iím thirty-two and I usually donít vote.  

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 30, 2007 01:45 PM

Yes, the right to vote is certainly a privilege, and one that should be used I might add. After all democracy is about involvement.
You may say that you haven't got insight or that you don't care about politics, but your vote is just as good as anyone else's; democracy should not be restricted to those who have greater insight or those who 'know better'.
By saying that "voting just to vote is detrimental" are you implying that what we could call 'unqualified' votes should rather not be given? Or that they could just as well not be given?
If you don't vote it's really hypocritical to complain about your political leaders. Even an 'unqualified' vote might increase your interest in politics in the future.

What about local elections? You must have some political institution in your council. Are local issues not easier to relate to?
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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
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Almost there.
posted January 30, 2007 07:26 PM

Understand Ecoris that we all evolve as we get older and what I thought about a lot of subjectís years ago has completely changed. Iím not saying that we should not count ďunqualifiedĒ votes and that people should not vote. Iím saying that for me I felt like I had no business throwing a vote out when I was lucky, years ago, to even know the names of who was running.

I have children now and care about the political views of those that are running this country. So I now educate myself on the subject and even find it interesting. It is called growing up and expanding yourself. I work on educating myself now and understanding what roles I can play to assist in the positive movement of our country.  

Quote:
You may say that you haven't got insight or that you don't care about politics, but your vote is just as good as anyone else's; democracy should not be restricted to those who have greater insight or those who 'know better'.


This is how I felt a long time ago, not now. I know that politics is nothing but a bad board game. Everyone knows this and for the most part our voices are heard but the words are not always adhered to by the politicians. I have come to except that I too must play along and that after being a military wife and having children I need to at least say that I did play a part.  

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bjorn190
bjorn190


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Jebus maker
posted January 30, 2007 08:37 PM

Sure thats all good and well, if people voted with their brains.

But most people have an iq that is really low, and that means they cant really take in all that information.

I think hes not gonna win, cause his name "Obama" is too close to "Osama", its like if someone called "Bitler" would become president of Israel.
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I am the hope of the universe... I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace... I am protector of the innocent... I am the light in the darkness... I am truth.

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 31, 2007 11:28 AM

Nah, bjorn, I don't share your view upon other people's iq. They are not as dumb as you think.

I just wonder: How come about 60% (or is it more?) of the American population say that Bush is not doing well when less then 60% of them bothered to vote at the presidential election.
Am I the only one who thinks that is rather peculiar? Or do such polls only ask people who did vote?
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violent_flower
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Almost there.
posted January 31, 2007 07:12 PM

EcorisÖ. There are a lot of things that Americans ***** about that they have no direct role in. The justice system would be another big one. I feel that Americans see what a twisted game it is and that just because we vote for someone it doesnít mean that the plans they promised will be executed. Bush would be example A of this, he was a flop to the Americans that voted for him and many republicans are going over to the Dems side because of him.
   

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Ecoris
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posted January 31, 2007 07:47 PM

Bush is not my cup of tea either.

But as I look upon it, in a democracy you get the politicians you deserve. Again, democracy is about involvement.
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the_gootch
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posted February 02, 2007 05:47 PM
Edited by the_gootch at 18:01, 02 Feb 2007.

Quote:
Why do I compare Obama to Powell? I do it because I want to prove that I'm not a racist.


And such is the white man's dilemma these days.  We have to preface anything and everything we say in regards to other races these days.

"I'm not a racist but...."

"Who's a racist?  I have a black friend you know..."

"I'm not a racist but these freaking immigrants have got to go..."

"I'm not a racist but we did the Native Americans a favor..."

"I'm not a racist but I prefer a Lite Brite almost white black man as opposed to a darker skinned black man.  It puts me more at ease...."

"I'm not a racist but why are all these black people getting so uppity?  Why don't they spend less time complaining about discrimination and more time doing well in school and becoming productive members of society instead of going to prison?"

"I'm not a racist but I can't stand those snooty Euros."

Wait.  That's just me.

Peace, you're in rare form in this one.  I too am feeling passionate about both Clinton and Obama.  I can't think of one time in my life I've ever been excited about two candidates before.  This is really gonna suck.

Edit:  Getting your HCMs loud and clear.  Mine are still awaiting delivery.
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Peacemaker
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Peacemaker = double entendre
posted February 02, 2007 06:14 PM
Edited by Peacemaker at 18:18, 02 Feb 2007.

Hi violent flower.  

Quote:
Quote:
BTW -- Wasn't it you whom a few years ago I was try to persuade to consider a vote for Colin Powell, in response to your protests that he was a General and therefore unfit to be president because of his excessively military status?)


This just made me want to wet myselfÖ I need the name of the thread.


Actually there were several of them I think, but here are the main two.

The Voice of Moderation Has Just Left the Building:

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=13688&pagenumber=2  (mainly pp. 2-3)

Why George Bush Should Not Be Re-elected:

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=11360&pagenumber=9 (mainly pp. 9-12 but it's kinda threaded through the whole thing.)

Gootch:  Let me suggest to you one thing that may make your choice between Hillary and Barack easier.

If you want your party to rush once again headlong over the cliff of utter unelectability like a bunch of crazed, strategically challeneged lemmings then back Clinton.  She is a very polarizing figure which, for better or worse, fairly or not, is despised by millions of Americans.

If you want to have a chance that your party might actually pull off a victory in a general election, then back Obama.  He's a very unifying figure and is universally admired.

Thanks for the compliment.  Sorry I haven't sent you guys the stuff yet.  I have an oral argument in front of the Court of Appeals coming up and I am terribly disorganized.


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