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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Facts About War Machines
Thread: Facts About War Machines This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
dfortae
dfortae


Known Hero
posted February 18, 2007 04:17 PM

Facts About War Machines

I was doing some thinking about war machines, and noticed something interesting:

The tent is ALWAYS better for higher hit point units and higher defense units.  The reason is the hit points brought back are constant, so creatures with higher defense get more "usage" out of their defense.

If you have the Tent ability, hit points don't matter as much because you can resurrect (go over the cap) low level units or heal/resurrect high level units.  If you don't have this ability, it is ALWAYS better with higher hit point units (since lower hit points have a cap and no resurrect).

Now, the war machine is opposite!  It's better to target lower defense creatures BECAUSE defense is taken into account (as opposed to a hero's attack or magic for instance).

So to use them the most effectively, it should be tents with high tier units, war machines with low tier units.

Pretty simple concept.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 18, 2007 04:30 PM

Good thinking there. However high hp and defense come with high tier units that are killed even easier with a hero.
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dschingi
dschingi


Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
posted February 18, 2007 04:31 PM

Quote:
Now, the war machine is opposite!  It's better to target lower defense creatures BECAUSE defense is taken into account (as opposed to a hero's attack or magic for instance).

Except if you have Flaming Arrows

Quote:
war machines with low tier units.

Not necessarily, it depends on the situation. Or would you attack a stack of skeletons which is on the other side of the battlefield rather than the vampires which could reach you in next round?
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dfortae
dfortae


Known Hero
posted February 18, 2007 05:21 PM
Edited by dfortae at 17:23, 18 Feb 2007.

Yes, good points.  I'm speaking in general.  In general, it would be the best move to do.  But there's ALWAYS exceptions!

I didn't get my 79% win ratio in Duel from nothing...

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 18, 2007 05:38 PM

Hehe!
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted February 18, 2007 05:43 PM

Hey.. what about Vittorio? +1 ATT to ballista per level, plus knight's natural.. that can make ballista pretty sick in terms of ATT stat

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted February 18, 2007 08:39 PM

AFAIK, the Knight's attack is not added to the Ballista, only Expert War Machines makes it have 15

ofc, there is Vittorio

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 18, 2007 11:03 PM

Not sure about the attack but it certainly affects the damage. Attack and knowledge.
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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted February 18, 2007 11:07 PM

Yes the damage IS affected. At expert is 5*(Attack+Knowledge)... can't remember at other masteries though.

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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 18, 2007 11:11 PM

Facts about Warmachines #13:

Retreating gets very expensive for a Hero with Warmachines... they are all lost. A Havez that was forced to retreat and I rehired him costed 10250 gold!!! (4500 ballista +1500 tent +750 ammo cart +3500 hero)

Conclusion - pick up only fight that you are sure to win

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hydroman
hydroman

Tavern Dweller
posted February 20, 2007 09:37 AM
Edited by hydroman at 09:37, 20 Feb 2007.

I'd think you'd want to use your ballista similarly to how you'd use any normal stack of creatures, i.e. getting the largest number of kills is not the determining factor in what you target.
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sfidanza
sfidanza


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 20, 2007 12:56 PM

For the sake of having the facts clear, here are the Attack, Defense and Damage for the Ballista, depending on the War Machines skill mastery:
- Att/Def = 5/10/12/15
- Damage = (2-3)*M / (2-4)*M / (2-5)*M / 5*M
where M is Hero_Attack+Hero_Knowledge

(excerpt from the manual of course)

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hellwitch
hellwitch


Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
posted February 20, 2007 02:16 PM

Quote:
Facts about Warmachines #13:

Retreating gets very expensive for a Hero with Warmachines... they are all lost. A Havez that was forced to retreat and I rehired him costed 10250 gold!!! (4500 ballista +1500 tent +750 ammo cart +3500 hero)

Conclusion - pick up only fight that you are sure to win


But if you fight against enemy hero you can surender with some cost of gold and when you hire him again it has all the war machines.
So imagine if your enemy go closer to your town(very good with havez and gargoyles) and you attacks him 2-3 only with tank units and war machines.(same can be done with good magic hero)

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MysticPhoenix
MysticPhoenix


Adventuring Hero
posted February 20, 2007 07:50 PM

Quote:

But if you fight against enemy hero you can surender with some cost of gold and when you hire him again it has all the war machines.


That's the way it was in the old H3 days (don't know about H4). Now, all war machines are lost when surrendering.

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hellwitch
hellwitch


Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
posted February 21, 2007 09:16 AM
Edited by hellwitch at 09:16, 21 Feb 2007.

Quote:
Quote:

But if you fight against enemy hero you can surender with some cost of gold and when you hire him again it has all the war machines.


That's the way it was in the old H3 days (don't know about H4). Now, all war machines are lost when surrendering.


well in my 1.041 version homm5 singleplayer game i beat the best AI heroes that way and i always kept all warmachines

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phoebeduviels
phoebeduviels


Known Hero
Que?
posted February 24, 2007 03:50 AM

Just bring Deleb with you
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hydroman
hydroman

Tavern Dweller
posted February 25, 2007 05:15 AM

How often do you actually pick war machines as a skill when you have the choice? I really don't bother with them (apart from the ammo cart), seems like wasting that many skills/abilities just so that your ballista can get an extra kill or two, is...well, a waste.

The only case I'd even consider is a sylvan hero, with imbue ballista + triple ballista + implosion or something good, that should do some serious damage, but sylvans only get 2% chance to pick war machines, and their attributes really don't favor destructive magic, sooo I dunno. How much damage does a regular single ballista shot do with expert warmachines/ballista/level 20 hero?

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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted February 25, 2007 05:40 AM

Quote:
How much damage does a regular single ballista shot do with expert warmachines/ballista/level 20 hero?


hmm.  About 250 per shot, so with 2 shots it's 500 damage.  It works well with the dwarves who get runic machines and triple ballista.  If you have the original I would go for it with knights who can get triple ballista...I've never accomplished the sylvan thing, not even in campaign.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted February 25, 2007 07:44 AM

Quote:
How often do you actually pick war machines as a skill when you have the choice? I really don't bother with them (apart from the ammo cart), seems like wasting that many skills/abilities just so that your ballista can get an extra kill or two, is...well, a waste.


Depends on a hero. For Deleb it's never a waste, but a prime killer.. Heroes like Havez and Vittorio also need it.

Quote:
The only case I'd even consider is a sylvan hero, with imbue ballista + triple ballista + implosion or something good, that should do some serious damage, but sylvans only get 2% chance to pick war machines, and their attributes really don't favor destructive magic, sooo I dunno.


It wouldn't, with like 3 spellpower at level 15 your implosion will be rather pathetic and drain you fast due to it's high cost, better to stick with light magic for sylvan.

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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted February 25, 2007 08:31 AM

It looks extremely good for academy and sylvan to learn war machine if they have a chance, even for fights that are big scale, since they have the chance to learn flaming arrows, academy in particular will get it easier.
If sylvan gets that imbue triple flaming ballista, I trial a game and they do around 2-3k damage/turn. But not realistic since attack is needed as well which is also only 2%

If gotten, 1 shot of ballista = 1 precise shot damage + elemental fire damage
Really cool

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