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| Thread: Is fortresss overpowered |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Deathy
Known Hero
Angels Galore
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posted August 09, 2007 04:32 PM |
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Edited by Deathy at 16:33, 09 Aug 2007.
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they are overpowered very late game, tho IMO Haven can stand up to them even very late game as long as they aren't attacking a castle. guardpost is overpowered 
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Haven player.
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ismail222
Known Hero
The Cataclysm
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posted August 09, 2007 05:14 PM |
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IMO they're tough versus might factions but no way they can stand to a magic faction and still they can't defeat haven in very late,and in very late games also the grim raiders ignore defense that's why they're the ultimate magamas killers.
edit : And no offence but it seems that u have a fortress fever 
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LiZaRdMeN
Disgraceful
Known Hero
The king of Grimheim
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posted August 09, 2007 06:22 PM |
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Quote:
IMO they're tough versus might factions but no way they can stand to a magic faction and still they can't defeat haven in very late,and in very late games also the grim raiders ignore defense that's why they're the ultimate magamas killers.
edit : And no offence but it seems that u have a fortress fever
Yeah,this is my favorite faction[with orcs]It's true that magams are slow ,but that can corrected withe rune.THeir magma shield is awesome,and with the combination of rune of berserking and rune of battle rage,they become killing machines This tactic is a killer with berserkers and warlords.THe alternate upgrade of the fire dragon is cool,butHE lost magma sheld,he don't have even fire shiled He gains plus 4 minimal and 5 maximum damage,but loses 5 hitpoints and 5 defence.I'l bet that this the weakest alternate upgrade for dragons.The magmas are more powerful than the lavas.And the magmas are way more coolerBut lavas are cool too
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 09, 2007 11:46 PM |
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Quote:
It's true that magams are slow ,but that can corrected withe rune.THeir magma shield is awesome,and with the combination of rune of berserking and rune of battle rage,they become killing machinesThis tactic is a killer with berserkers and warlords.
Ka-Ching! Another one for you Elvin.
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I can't see why heavy resource demands is a poor way of balancing a faction? It worked for Necro right? Everyone complains about how they can't get dragons right?
Ressource balancing is a louse way of doing it, because that makes the strength of the faction dependant on the map. Thus, if you play a rich map, suddenly Fortress will have a huge advantage, because the constrain on their development is absent.
As for the thing about Necro, I don't think that's a good example of a succesful story. Yes, it did make Dragons unacheivable, but that is not a good way of balancing the game, that just reduces the gameplay (effectively cuts away a tier of necro units). In fact, after they changed the Necromancy system, Dragons should be much more available, and the extreme resource requirements seem completely out of place.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 09, 2007 11:59 PM |
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Score! 
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 10:51 AM |
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Quote:
IMO they're tough versus might factions but no way they can stand to a magic faction and still they can't defeat haven in very late,and in very late games also the grim raiders ignore defense that's why they're the ultimate magamas killers.
That's exacly the main problem. If a map is played, in which fortress is going to lose vs magic they have to dig through a tavern beggining from day 1 for a magic hero themselves and hope to get a nice warlock or a wizard to use him(or her) as a main hero. What is nice, is the fact that fortress' troops are very durable and it alone makes them a perfect army for a magic hero.
Haven can lose even very late vs fortress on a multicastle(or multicastle and poor) map. Too few gold for paladin training..
Grim raiders, although they will suicide themselves, can do pretty well vs magmas. 4 grim vs 1 magma will deal 4*average(7,14)*(1+total_attack*0.05) so assuming hero attack = 30 it's 42*3 = 126
126/280 = 45% magmas is dead
with luck it's 90%
Also, those numbers will be higher because lvl 4 creatures are built 1-2 weeks earlier than lvl 7.
Still, the best magma killers are marksmen + a demonlord. Priest's bless on marksman, teleport assault near magmas, +0.5 ATB = immediate acting, 1 shot and magmas are a history.
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LiZaRdMeN
Disgraceful
Known Hero
The king of Grimheim
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posted August 10, 2007 11:02 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
IMO they're tough versus might factions but no way they can stand to a magic faction and still they can't defeat haven in very late,and in very late games also the grim raiders ignore defense that's why they're the ultimate magamas killers.
That's exacly the main problem. If a map is played, in which fortress is going to lose vs magic they have to dig through a tavern beggining from day 1 for a magic hero themselves and hope to get a nice warlock or a wizard to use him(or her) as a main hero. What is nice, is the fact that fortress' troops are very durable and it alone makes them a perfect army for a magic hero.
Haven can lose even very late vs fortress on a multicastle(or multicastle and poor) map. Too few gold for paladin training..
Grim raiders, although they will suicide themselves, can do pretty well vs magmas. 4 grim vs 1 magma will deal 4*average(7,14)*(1+total_attack*0.05) so assuming hero attack = 30 it's 42*3 = 126
126/280 = 45% magmas is dead
with luck it's 90%
Also, those numbers will be higher because lvl 4 creatures are built 1-2 weeks earlier than lvl 7.
Still, the best magma killers are marksmen + a demonlord. Priest's bless on marksman, teleport assault near magmas, +0.5 ATB = immediate acting, 1 shot and magmas are a history.
are you crazy Yes ,grim riders are powerfull against magmas,they can do high damage against them,but the magma sheld wiil destroy the ridersp.s.-stop calling me lizze,my name is Emil
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 11:17 AM |
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I'm saying they are good at killing magmas not that it's a wise thing to do.. Same aplies to demonlord+marksman example. But here it may actually pay off, if morale problem is solved somehow, because haven army + demonlord will strike hard preventing all that fun with the runes.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 10, 2007 11:50 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Grim raiders, although they will suicide themselves, can do pretty well vs magmas.
are you crazyYes ,grim riders are powerfull against magmas,they can do high damage against them,but the magma sheld wiil destroy the ridersp.s.-stop calling me lizze,my name is Emil
LiZaRdMeN > I gave a warning yesterday to others for going personal, but that also applies to you. Please read the post completely before you step to name-calling, which is completely un-called for - even if people do not share your oppinions, instead of writing their ideas off as crazy or stupid, explain why you think like you do, and point out the things that they might not have noticed or though of. I am very tired of you attacking everybody who do not agree with you.
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What will happen now?
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LiZaRdMeN
Disgraceful
Known Hero
The king of Grimheim
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posted August 10, 2007 12:07 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
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Grim raiders, although they will suicide themselves, can do pretty well vs magmas.
are you crazyYes ,grim riders are powerfull against magmas,they can do high damage against them,but the magma sheld wiil destroy the ridersp.s.-stop calling me lizze,my name is Emil
LiZaRdMeN > I gave a warning yesterday to others for going personal, but that also applies to you. Please read the post completely before you step to name-calling, which is completely un-called for - even if people do not share your oppinions, instead of writing their ideas off as crazy or stupid, explain why you think like you do, and point out the things that they might not have noticed or though of. I am very tired of you attacking everybody who do not agree with you.
O.K.iT'S TRUE THAT THOSE RAIDERS CANdestroy them quickly,but sheldguards are the perfect anti-raiders,their sheld wall abitie is beyond awesomnees.shield wall is also perfect against paladins and angels.The sheld guards are very tough,they have armored,large shieldand the coolest abiliti in the game -shield wall.One week population without castle have 216 hp.even the assassins don't have more,they're the strongest level 1
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 12:09 PM |
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total hp/week isnt all you know
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted August 10, 2007 02:52 PM |
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Yeah. Does anyone remember the Zombies from H3, the Necro Level 2? 20-25 HP, by far the most, but slow as hell and ridiculously easy to slaughter.
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 05:58 PM |
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Yes, they're seriously overpowered, especially with that monster hero ingvar.
Early, mid, end game are quite ok for them.
Early usually = war machine rush, and they have good chance to get it.
Mid and end game they have runes that pawn all racial abilities i think ... End game haven is no way a match for them i guess, even if they can train max paladins/week, unless its 1 town versus 1.
Just my thoughts
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 06:19 PM |
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Quote:
Mid and end game they have runes that pawn all racial abilities i think ... End game haven is no way a match for them i guess, even if they can train max paladins/week, unless its 1 town versus 1.
I wouldn't be so sure.. endgame haven is still endgame haven ;]
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 06:22 PM |
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Max paladins/week/castle = 17 so it's better than 2 magmas/week/castle and 4 warlords/week/castle. Fortress will be simply removed.
IMO, paladins/week/castle = 10 should be enough to handle a fortress - especially with Klaus.
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Tenaka
Famous Hero
Makes sense
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posted August 10, 2007 06:25 PM |
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Nah, I'd say you still have a good chance early and mid-game. Although definitely smaller mid-game. Remember, if you reach 'em soon, they'll just hide in their guardpost, shivering in fear! (Muahaha! ) Meanwhile, you can take all their resources and artifacts. They'll probably realize that staying there is not a good idea. (You can at least raise your hero to lvl 15)
Once they come out...You should be able to take them out, if you didn't have any extreme bad luck with neutrals, or got bad arties.
As for the shieldguard...their damage is a too low, to actually give them a lot of attention. One or two good melee-strikes, or just a nice spell will make most of them harmless, as long as they're not in ridiculous numbers. Their hp is a bit high, maybe, but everything else. Ignore them, I say. Except if they've got a high-level Ingvar.
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 06:43 PM |
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Edited by sq79 at 18:49, 10 Aug 2007.
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Actually if u managed to train max paladins/week while fortress have nowhere to spend their money on, haven rules all, i think i mentioned it..
That usually happens when playing a one town map, with 8-9k income ...
It just happens 1 full town of haven troops can't be compared to one full town of fortress troops with the runes taking effect of course, and after a long battle, if fortress gets rune of resurrection, 500 shieldguards that were killed to 100+ suddenly becomes like 300, its really hard to take them down with expert defence, vitality, defensive formation etc ... If the paladins charge forward, maybe they can clear 1 stack, but imagine the amount of damage it will be abosrbing from the dragons, shieldguards, warlords etc ..
Its hard to explain in theory, do a single game, example, level 20 klaus versus level 20 ingvar, build according to resources. See how much troops can the paladins take down with ingvar having expert defence, defensive formation. And also attack/battle frenzy. The damage they generate is quite impressive from the dwarfs
Esp with rune of berserking and dragonform
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 07:02 PM |
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I mean if it's 10 pala/week/castle or more then haven wins. If it's less than 10/pala/week/castle then rune of resurrection thing happens too much.. and especially rune of resurection + refresh rune + shieldguards/magmas happens way to much.. And because of this stupid rune all other runes happen too much and it's gg.
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Tenaka
Famous Hero
Makes sense
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posted August 10, 2007 08:00 PM |
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Hey, don't forget they can't keep casting runes. I often out-mana them if I have the Resurrection spell. Again, if you strike early-game, even if they have a high enough Rune guild, they probably won't have that much resources to keep using the right runes. It pretty much depends a bit on luck. (If they just found a pile of gems on the map, they'll be able to resurect more)
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 08:01 PM |
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there is a method..
first of all, the strongest runes, berserking and battlerage cannot be triggered without casualties.
Second, rune of ressurection can't be used on totally DEAD stacks.
so, you have to kill the stacks completely, in between their turns, to make sure they will not use any of the above.
Of course some casualties will appear (retaliation) but in the first two turns there will be no berserk/battlerage, and two turns is enough for endgame haven to kill the strongest hitters.
Without runes, it's your superior defense (yup knights have better DEF than runelords..), superior attack, superior skills (retribution..) AND superior units (hi quintiple palas) against poor and slow dwarven army.
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