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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 TotE Strategy: Playing Stronghold Faction
Thread: Heroes 5 TotE Strategy: Playing Stronghold Faction [ This thread is 28 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (11) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ]
Dodokilla
Dodokilla


Hired Hero
Hunting dodos
posted December 17, 2007 04:10 PM

A little creeping trick is to always have a small stack of warriors in week 2, for some reason the AI tends to go at them pretty often leaving your precius centaurs unharmed.

When creeping against shooters buy marauders, They are often worth it in the long run, I promise!

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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted December 17, 2007 07:05 PM

Dodoin crreping we use meat fortress made of goblins... It's kinda stupid to use quite good unites- as warriors to be baits...

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Dodokilla
Dodokilla


Hired Hero
Hunting dodos
posted December 17, 2007 08:40 PM
Edited by dodokilla at 20:43, 17 Dec 2007.

Well about 20 warriors is a pretty good meatshield early on IMO. In the end itīs all a risk taking calculation. Without uppgraded centaurs and warriors you may have a more cost effective creeping army but atleast my experiences shows that you minimizes the risks, especially against shooters when you use my strategy.

Warriors, or rather warmongers, can be a very good late game unit, but in early and middle game itīs more important too lay your energy too buy and uppgrade earth daughters, executiners and cyclops.

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Mytical
Mytical

Hero of Order
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted December 17, 2007 09:03 PM

Kraugh with a Powerfulblow/Frenzy/Stunning Blow/Excruciating is a great creeper.  Especially against those nasty shooter/caster types.  Since he gets a free attack at beginning of combat and 5% extra damage a level, he can hurt them and set them back.

As for Haggash (spelling?) deffinately a flaming arrow build for him, and that is a good creeper there.  I think I prefer Kraugh tho.
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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted December 18, 2007 02:06 PM

Haggash is a female
Kragh is good at creeping but he is more lamy in end-game... Haggash is quite good in the late game unless someone have killed her all centarus... If he is the last dude- it is really small problem... But if there are some guys playing- you can die within minute...
I think that best balanced is Garuna- she gets flamings quite fast (even on second level ) and her blood drinker ability is usefull in both creeping and late game...

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Pinkspear
Pinkspear


Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
posted December 18, 2007 06:12 PM

I disagree. Kragh is powerful in the endgame too. On a week 4 fight vs Sylvan Kragh was capable to kill 4 crystal dragons (with exr. strike of course) and due to stunning blow, my key units were able to attack before them.

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Cleave
Cleave


Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
posted December 19, 2007 03:31 AM
Edited by Cleave at 03:32, 19 Dec 2007.

I agree with Pinkspear on that point, IMO Kragh is almost too good.
Sheer damage, he can take down tier 7 creatures rather early. I think that once he hits level 10 he becomes really good and it improves later on.

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Mytical
Mytical

Hero of Order
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted December 19, 2007 06:38 AM

Contemplation time.  Shatter dark is a decent skill to get for the orcs (especially due to the fact that dark is a major weakness for them).  Now normally if I get the shatter dark I go the Detain, Corrupt, and the other 1st 'teir' perk (can't remember the name).  With Kragh would it pay to go weakening strike?  Since he has an initial free strike, whatever was left would then be weakned (unless immune for some reason).
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yasmiel
yasmiel


Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
posted December 19, 2007 06:46 AM

weakening strike would work on none-mastery level (at least i think, since shatter shouldnt count as mastery level), so weakening strike doesnt seem like "a must have".

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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted December 19, 2007 02:14 PM

Hey Pink and Cleave, do you know that with flaming arrows and tripple ballista you can kill 6 crystals WITHOUT any lucky hits???
Krag doesn't go for ballista...
Moreover, when you play any other hero- he is free to cry, Kragh isn't cuz you have to decide wheter to shout or melee attack...

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 19, 2007 03:21 PM

Who told you Kragh cannot be a successful ballista user? His special does not mean he has to go for excruciating strike and will help you anyway.

Btw remember what I was saying about Telsek? I was wrong. I played him a bit more and he is an amazing creeper with the potential for the least creeping casualties and few weaknesses. Even against casters and arcane archers

When I first played him I was not impressed by his starting army or special and when I decided to give him a second chance it was on let's fight that is not exactly balanced. Yes, it is a crazy creeping map but the first hordes of tier 1 are too much for some heroes at lvl 2-3, warmachine or no. In much the same way inferno has trouble there. In a map with better balanced neutrals he can outshine the others ^^
By having single goblins that you sacrifise during combat you raise the warriors' attack, they are enraged

Let's take things from the beginning. Yout starting warriors initially suck, it's a fact. Therefore you will need goblin trappers to delay your enemy and a focus on warmachines, first ballista, then tent and lastly triple ballista. Once you get tent switch to attack skill for flaming arrows. Centaurs? Don't bother. He starts with none and even if the town has them built and you combine armies with a secondary, their numbers will not be enough to have an impact. At best they can help you a bit early, then warriors will take over.
They seem weak right? Your warmachine aid will compensate for a while until they become powerful to stand on their own. If you chain the warrior troops from town or find a dwelling they'll be enough to deal with most threats because apart from the bonuses, the first rage lvl gives +5hp taking them to 17. Easy to pump up, you will lose few if any with careful tent management.

I mentioned warmachines and attack. Your racial must be upgraded ASAP as well. You need it more than any other hero because you will be forced to enter melee and join the fray First get memory, powerful blow is not a priority. Oh before you go off creeping send a secondary to give the tent on Telsek day 2. Do not for any reason pick other skills until you have expert bloodrage, triple ballista, tent and flaming arrows. That should be around week 2.

Next there's another skill to consider. Considering that Telsek plays differently than the others you won't need leadership as much. Instead I'd rather get luck(for ballista mostly), enlightenment(boosts ballista AND army not to mention bloodfire) or defense. Defense in an awesome boost. Vitality helps you a bit more and then there's protect us all In battle for honour I had built warriors on 2nd town and when I combined armies on week 3 I got +200 trappers from the perk Evasion is sweet but then there's the other lovely combo. Imagine those insane tanks, warmongers defend and still get the first hit. Yes I am talking about preparation. And why not? The ballista won't go down as fast and the enemy will have to attack you, probably not knowing you have it. Also good vs neutrals as those archdevils. The second effect of rage is unlimited retaliation that even seems to be planned for that Not to mention taunt that can force other units to attack them instead of the nearby units.

Then dependinging on the faction you will either go for a shatter or for a skill that increases rage, ie shout, enlightenment. That way you  can play on your strengths and still make sure that your skills 'click'. An army that never dies, reboosts his rage and has ballista backup


----------------------------------------------------------------------


What I still do not know is if might over magic works on neutrals. Now some replays:

Horde(almost throng) of  firehounds
Pretty resilient guys, no? The low hp makes them easier to be raised just as easy as they can die with the rage gone

For Doomforge
As you can see they can kill druids with no fear on week 2. Heck I killed 29 arcane archers with 26 warriors on week 1 and lost only 6.

Lots of executioners
Now that is resilience. Yes I kept them out of harm's touch with the goblins but if 5 executioners cannot kill a warrior imagine.

Battle for honor week 3 break
Ok I cheated by having a staff of the netherworld I obviously did not need the shamans, I might as well have used goblins. Minimal losses. I was just testing so I did not even bother to get warcries, call of blood would have been amazing to have.

Same, no staff
To make amends for my cheat I thought I'd repeat the battle with the edge of balance. Outcome pretty much the same, warmongers do not feel pain. The results show that the staff of netherworld is useless
One comment: Don't block enemies from hitting you or they'll destroy the tent


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But I have only been talking about the good things so here's the full story.

In the first levels Telsek cannot attack big stacks without losses. You must have both tent and ballista for that. Haggash and Kragh don't share that weakness.
You cannot hope to combine armies to increase your warriors and you cannot build them in the first days either, you need trappers and blacksmith.
Might over magic is pretty much useless early.
Not convinced you can take on lots of shadow dragons like Haggash could, at least the centaurs could attack the dragons for afar to reduce their numbers and gain some rage. Maybe with warmongers and call of blood. Of course flaming arrows and triple ballista are required.
Haggash with centaurs, leadership and ballista or Kragh with his buffed direct attack can do more damage(powerful blow not taken into account) than Telsek with warriors and the ballista. Basically they have other ways to deal damage apart from warmachines in the first 2 weeks without getting reinforcements.

That's for the better though, he can have the best ballista fastest and there had to be something to slow him down. Imagine if he had centaur specialty
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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted December 19, 2007 03:26 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 15:27, 19 Dec 2007.

Quote:
Who told you Kragh cannot be a successful ballista user? His special does not mean he has to go for excruciating strike and will help you anyway.

Btw remember what I was saying about Telsek? I was wrong. I played him a bit more and he is an amazing creeper with the potential for the least creeping casualties and few weaknesses. Even against casters and arcane archers



told you.

I know telsek is potent, i use him myself. I know how to kill Arcane archers without loses. I just couldn't imagine haggash doing it

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 19, 2007 03:31 PM

She could do it the same way if a bit lucky with the skills. I had killed lots of arcane archers with just Kragh on week 2 during my earlier games. Yet **** happens and more than two of their stacks may play first, pretty dangerous.
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Jukeboxhero
Jukeboxhero


Adventuring Hero
posted December 22, 2007 10:30 PM

Is it always a good idea to get Shatter Dark vs Academy? I played vs Academy yesterday and they got Exp Dark, Light and Summoning. I was playing Haggash and I didn't manage to get flaming ballista, but almost every battle I fought I had no losses except against the Blood Tower place that has loads of Furies and Matriarchs.

Also, I don't know if this is impressive or not, but I was playing the map "Day of Colossus" and on Week 1, day 5 or 6, I attacked the second town which was guarded by 3 Shadow? Dragons and some goblins. I managed to win the town with only a few gobin trapper losses and 2 shaman. I also took the Stronghold Dwelling and only lost 2-3 Goblin trappers!

I think I'll post that replay sometime, although I imagine it's fairly easy to do.

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 22, 2007 10:50 PM

There is no guarantee they WILL get dark spells but with library you can never be sure. There is no certain counter, academy can work equally well all types of magic now so you may face a destructive specialist, a buffer with divine vengeance or a combination of 2-3 schools. I'd fear the most dark though and based on what I saw with dungeon the destructive path may not be the best thing to do against barbarians. Must try warlock's luck with elemental gargoyles against them just to be sure but I suspect that armageddon tactics(with resistance mini arties) can be successful against orcs.

I have not played the map but it should be possible to do by week 1, especially with warmachines. Not bad though
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Jukeboxhero
Jukeboxhero


Adventuring Hero
posted December 23, 2007 01:05 AM

Quote:
There is no guarantee they WILL get dark spells but with library you can never be sure. There is no certain counter, academy can work equally well all types of magic now so you may face a destructive specialist, a buffer with divine vengeance or a combination of 2-3 schools.



I have not played the map but it should be possible to do by week 1, especially with warmachines. Not bad though


Well, in this case he did get Dark Spells or at least he had Exp Dark magic, so I guess I will expect it and get it just to be safe if facing them in the future.
Btw, the base skills I had were Attk, Def, warmachines, Luck and Leadership. So I'm not sure which is the best to skip to get Dark Magic. I guess it would either be Leadership or Luck. Would you ever choose enlightenment with Orcs?

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 23, 2007 01:15 AM

Of course, it is great. For me most important things against spellcasters is morale, aura of swiftness/elation and probably tactics to ensure that I'll hit first. Warmachines and attack are just too good for creeping for me to skip. Defense I don't find needed, luck all the way

I do not have a specific build, my focus is warmachines and then I improvise.
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Jukeboxhero
Jukeboxhero


Adventuring Hero
posted December 23, 2007 01:37 AM

Quote:
Of course, it is great. For me most important things against spellcasters is morale, aura of swiftness/elation and probably tactics to ensure that I'll hit first. Warmachines and attack are just too good for creeping for me to skip. Defense I don't find needed, luck all the way

I do not have a specific build, my focus is warmachines and then I improvise.


Interesting..so you wouldn't take defense to get the perk of 15% resistance and protection or the bonus to defense? Guess it wouldn't be as good as the benefits of Corrupt Dark, but Defense was my first skill choice on leveling and it seemed good at the time.

also, I found a ring that gave protection vs Lightning based spells (cant' remember if it was 15 or 25%). I was wondering how many lightning based spells there are or if it would be worth wearing if Academy had storm titans (He actually had 26 Storm Titans that dealt upwards of 10k dmg.)

ps. I didn't wear it for the final battle, instead I had ring of Vitality and the one that gives +2 attk and defnse, but - 1 speed.

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Edwin_Yang
Edwin_Yang


Known Hero
posted December 23, 2007 01:44 AM
Edited by Edwin_Yang at 01:46, 23 Dec 2007.

the ring of lightning protection provide 50% protection vs lightning based spell,but it doesn't work with the storm titans
it works with the lightning, chainlightening,and the call lightning(the specializition of titan.)




and I think it is not good to take the ring of caution(+2 att and def -1 speed),any other rings will be better

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 23, 2007 01:46 AM
Edited by Elvin at 01:48, 23 Dec 2007.

Should be 50% reduction. There are just 2 lightning spells but I don't know if it works with titans. They'd rather shoot anyway and that is considered physical. There are so many better rings out there that I wouldn't bother.

Edit: Edwin got me
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