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Heroes Community > Tournament of Honor > Thread: TOTOE random map - best random generat for Heroes history
Thread: TOTOE random map - best random generat for Heroes history
Valentin
Valentin


Adventuring Hero
grr
posted October 24, 2007 04:25 PM

TOTOE random map - best random generat for Heroes history

I dont know why, but H3 RMG was worst then H5, but players use it more. They are not so much games on Random maps in H5 and i m not understanding why?

I think, on random map you can have hard, long and fun game. But you need to know how to create good map for and to find strong opponent.

Best seed for hard games is "S6". You can choose it only if you are playing minimum Large map + underground.

If you want to play "all random" just use the option "random towns" But it is possible to not be on native terain. You can restart the map if you are on snow or desert terain.

The second option: do not choose "random towns" and you can generate a map for 4 or 6 players. You must generate until you have the 2 towns wich you want.

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 24, 2007 05:54 PM

They would be much better if there were more neutrals to kill and more goods. For me they are kind of empty.

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insatiable
insatiable


Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
posted October 25, 2007 11:00 AM
Edited by insatiable at 20:27, 25 Oct 2007.

20% of my overall games are on random maps.. last months more than 50%

I usually do L - XL, no under, 4-6 player
Also noticed maps are better and harder when underground is ON, however rmg with under is unplayable.

valentin idea of NOT random towns is cool too, so terrain will be appropriate
____________

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the_teacher
the_teacher


Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
posted October 25, 2007 12:46 PM

utopia is part of the template? cause it happend to see it only once in all the maps generated so far.
from what ive experienced so far, the S, M and L (no under, 4 players or lesser) generated maps contains dwells level 1-3 and minor artifacts , l6 lots guards between areas (once i had l7).

in the larger maps (L with under or more players than 4,) XL , few superior dwells start to pop up, even major artifacts, hill fort if lucky, and an utopia if u're lottery winner.

the difference between rmg and handmade maps is that the latter have extra epic story (if) ,a non linear progress (the monsters are tougher and tougher as u advance over the map) (if), the sim turns mode(on most of them - closed/semiclosed)) is maximized, few quest kinda plots, etc.

but a good map requires 2-3 months of work, w/o counting the patches for correcting balance/passability issues.

rmg is pretty decent but at a certain point , lets say week 3-4, the difficulty in clearing map turns to zero and its just a matter of gold/resources gathering in order to recruit/upgrade all army (if lucky build a second town) and prepare to meet the opponent (walk and carry).
but, what the heck, it takes only 20 sec to have a fresh map, i think it makes things even. once in a while u can play a handmade map for a more complete experience

the settings  "strong" monsters seems to be not enough, but a much stronger setting (overall) could create imbalance in early game.
an option would be a SETTING that lets you control the neutral population growth . (ie. stack of hunters: instead of incresing their number with 3-4/week we can have a setting 50%, 100%, 150% accelerated growth to advantage the faster player, encouraging to fight early, risk more and become tougher if he's lazy).


i know nevermindspy is working on an impoved RMG and i was wondering how the occurence of major/relic artifacts can be "controlled", utopia, hill fort, portals, etc.
and other particular settings like the one described above.

speaking about the tote overall, im very pleased with the towns balance changes they made.  (h3-  tactics, mass haste-> wipe one turn days are forgotten )



have a nice day




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nevermind
nevermind


Famous Hero
posted October 25, 2007 01:37 PM

Hey :)

Yes my RMG will kick ubi's ass BIG TIME

If it interest you all i will post an early version in the weekend  - to get first impression and get ur juiced going for any tips you may have..

What is ready so far is 95% of the gui and about 75% of the template editor but as it is now nothing much you can do with it as i yet to start working on the genereting mechanics ..
Hopefully will start it next week and since its the most interesting part maybe it will go faster since its more fun to work on

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Strider_HL
Strider_HL


Famous Hero
posted October 25, 2007 04:43 PM

Nevermind, you're the engine and most valuable tech support of heroes community

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Jinxer
Jinxer


Legendary Hero
*****
posted October 26, 2007 02:52 AM

Insatiable --  why does underground make RMG unplayable?  I think the opposite.. you cannot play a good random withOUT the underground... Otherwise you are running into your opponent way to early and take the hunting aspect outta the game.  With no under you just run down the road and poof there they are.


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Valentin
Valentin


Adventuring Hero
grr
posted October 26, 2007 06:04 PM

What must be improved in RMG?

1/ Hill Fords must be guarded
2/ The map must have underground (or some races take advantage)
3/ It must be possible to choose your town and both players together generate a map, like in H3.  Now some players fears from cheating, and they are right.
4/ The guards in native towns must be stronger
5/ There must be dweling for 5-6-7 level + neutrals creatures.
6/ Maybe more Utopia buildings.(Now they are rare)
7/ There must be possible to play S6 seed on Large without underground. (now if you do it, your map will be empty)
8/ Now on 3th month there is no army wich can stop you, cause all level seven creatures starts from Lots. There must be super strong creatures - chance for growing up a level.
9/ There must be rare "Tree" building for level up, (now I have never seen it)
10/ Maybe rare teleports will give more fun  (there is no teleports now)

FOR EVERYONE who said: "Randoms are empty + weak creatures"
PLay Large+Underground  S6 seed on Heroic
and never say it again )  Damn, half of the creatures are Lots seven level

Why we must play randoms? - Because in random maps everything is new. When we play standart map everything depends from "how good you know the map". For example how can I play Horgulas agains SQ or Elit? IT WILL BE SUICIDE )

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insatiable
insatiable


Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
posted October 27, 2007 10:31 AM

Rmg + under = overlong and tiring.. thats all. Nevertheless, Im sure it gives a better game

As for 'running down the road', if you pick colors which their player # are not in sequence (e.g human: player 1 vs 3, or 2 vs 5 etc) usually there is neutral ground among human players (in a 4-6 player game fcorse)
____________

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Elit
Elit


Famous Hero
posted October 28, 2007 02:11 PM

New Size "huge"+ under,strong, 8 players, temple:S7-22P2-8Z15K2.4c
Generate realy good maps...but have few problems.
1. You need 2 GB ram to can play normal....
2. This can be realy long game...so depend are you like it or not.

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Valentin
Valentin


Adventuring Hero
grr
posted October 29, 2007 06:57 PM

Meeting on 6th month is not for me. Elit, it is a kind masochism for me   Insatibale our game on Large+under was long cause we play map for 6 players.  The best maps are for 2 players.

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phoenixreborn
phoenixreborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted October 29, 2007 07:44 PM

Anyone have a guide to what all the numbers mean for the template?

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Elit
Elit


Famous Hero
posted October 31, 2007 04:46 PM

Quote:
Meeting on 6th month is not for me. Elit, it is a kind masochism for me   Insatibale our game on Large+under was long cause we play map for 6 players.  The best maps are for 2 players.



Yes 5-6 mounts can be so long but old temples for Large+under is realy crap. Most terens are zero....you can have 1 battle per turn...not any challenge.

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Elit
Elit


Famous Hero
posted October 31, 2007 04:51 PM
Edited by Elit at 05:44, 01 Nov 2007.

Quote:

Why we must play randoms? - Because in random maps everything is new. When we play standart map everything depends from "how good you know the map". For example how can I play Horgulas agains SQ or Elit? IT WILL BE SUICIDE )



Val 90% from my games on HG are vs SQ,Cycleguy. Both have over x2 more games here from me but my resutl is decent...and i learn alot from games with them.
Suicide will be if you playing against Arteman with Necro. He is not any loss on HG in TOH

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eldiez10
eldiez10


Hired Hero
posted November 27, 2008 07:29 PM

would some1 plz be kind and tell me what a template is and if theres

any1 out there who can explain how the custom template affect the

random map which is being generated
____________

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Strider_HL
Strider_HL


Famous Hero
posted November 27, 2008 07:36 PM

Quote:
would some1 plz be kind and tell me what a template is and if theres

any1 out there who can explain how the custom template affect the

random map which is being generated


All answers in this thread:

Random templates

Also, you might find of great interest IRMG. RMG created by one of our master programmers Nevermindspy. Look in forums. It works just superb together with templates. The final result is not even comparable with original RMG in quality!

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joetheloser
joetheloser


Hired Hero
posted November 29, 2008 05:32 AM

Quote:
If you want to play "all random" just use the option "random towns" But it is possible to not be on native terain. You can restart the map if you are on snow or desert terain.

The second option: do not choose "random towns" and you can generate a map for 4 or 6 players. You must generate until you have the 2 towns wich you want.


The lack of native terrain is a big problem when players want to go random.  But, if you PICK the towns in map generation OR you PICK RANDOM, terrain will be good.  So I find the easiest solution is one of the following:

Solution (A):
Have a "tiny" two player map that can be used to get TOWN/HERO, mark it down, and then reload by setting those towns in your "real" map.  The problem here comes when you have more than 2 towns you can't "trust" the other player to make all other towns random.  But for 1v1 game, this works fine.

Solution (B):
Generates a 2-8 player map with the settings that are desired but sets all towns to RANDOM.  Set the map up in hamachi/UBI and then ask your opponent to assign each players color/player # before entering the game.  This pretty much assures the game will be generated randomly, as the person who sets up the map has no idea WHAT town they will be.

These solutions save the endless restarts because of bad terrain.

Personally, I love random maps and never pay attention to the template.  I'm sure "S6" or whatever is a good template, but you remove one step of "randomness" by only playing a certain template.  I've played enough of them to notice clear trends in each of the maps, that I'm sure correlate with template #s....but I'm just playing the game for maximal FUN...if I know there is a lot of towns on the map or lots of arties in the middle...or whatever...to me it becomes less fun.

Just my two cents.

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