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| Thread: Necropolis vs. Dungeon - how to deal with supreme spells |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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ebbafan
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 28, 2008 08:05 PM |
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Edited by ebbafan at 20:10, 28 Mar 2008.
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i know its not haaloween yet, but the bears are still in hibernation, and being bored, i dug up some graves and...
out popped Zoltan!
no, just kidding, but honestly, since the question of necro vs dungeon came up, i thought i would offer my 2 cents after tinkering with them.
first off, Zoltan is the man!!!! why? you want a a necro with mentoring. he will boost necromancy points hugely when you hire more necromancers. you want as big an army as possible vs. the warlock army: it will be quantity vs. quality. he will level up faster than others, have much higher stats, not to mention intelligence for extra 50% spell points
further, remember Zoltan's special, spellwringer, can you imagine the look on that pesky warlock's face when his super-duper mega empowered meteor shower is greyed out in his spellbook? 
priceless!
next off is dark magic: as Elvin the great cited previously, puppet master and frenzy will work wonders. but what to do against those black dragons(likely to be few in number, and quite possibly extinct after the puppeted raiders hit them)? in a word, vampirism. cast this spell on your dragons/wraiths and your troops become a horrendous menace!
i know most old timers realize this, but in case any newbies(like myself) didn't realize, if you capture a neutral town, convert those creatures into undead to chain on and get a HUGE!!! necro army.
someone mentioned defense, or using Lucretia, etc. don't forget, when you get mentoring, you can train orson, luctetia, etc. to fight your final fight for you if you want!
oh! and P.S., expect the fight with mr. dungeon to be a long one. he'll want to bomb you away as quickly as possible, but his mana is limited, whereas you have "mark of the necromancer" allowing you to regain lost mana(during endgames, the amount of mana regained is unbeleivable) you can even cast it on your own troops if his black dragons/empowered implosion is going to take out that stack! be persistent raising the dead, dark casting away, and you shall prevail!
back to gravedigging!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 28, 2008 08:11 PM |
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Unfortunately Zoltan can't get mentoring unless he finds a memory mentor to forget the intuition. Anyway it's not that hard to get enlightenment and I prefer to build up summoning first.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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ebbafan
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 28, 2008 08:19 PM |
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oh yes, you're right, i had forgotten i had visited the brainwasher in that game
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lengoi
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 30, 2008 12:05 AM |
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What ability is Mentoring? I don't find it in the necromancer's ability list...
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 30, 2008 12:14 AM |
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Edited by Fauch at 00:17, 30 Mar 2008.
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I had that kind of match this afternoon against a friend, except it was a duel, so the heroes were pretty optimized.
I chose my necromancer with his hordes of spectres and skeletons, and he chose a random hero and got my warlock with those omg uber awesome fireballs of the deaths.
the warlock was so awesome that despite many magic protections and resistance and even a total immunity to all spell (thanks to the light spell) he could still blast my army to pieces with spells dealing hundreds or even a thousand of damage.
I kinda knew how powerful a warlock could be but I didn't imagine it could be that much.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 30, 2008 12:23 AM |
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Maybe you check the old list..? It gives 25% of the hero's experience to those who meet him.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 30, 2008 01:06 AM |
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not exactly, the amount of xp points of the trainee becomes equal to 25% of the amount of xp points of the mentor.
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ebbafan
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 30, 2008 03:42 AM |
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huh? isn't that what elvin just said????
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 30, 2008 04:08 AM |
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no, +25% is only the max you can receive.
if you already have 24% of the amount of xp points of the mentor, he should only give you +1%
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ebbafan
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 30, 2008 05:51 AM |
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oh right, my bad!
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted April 01, 2008 05:39 PM |
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Edited by kermit at 17:46, 01 Apr 2008.
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The key for necro is to outlast the dungeon player, if you manage to survive the spells even with a lesser army you have a good chance at winning.
Hero to choose: Zoltan, at higher levels he has a high chance to block some key dungeon spell, thus reducing greatly it's damaging output.
Skills: defense + vitality + evasion+ last stand, sorcery (perhaps distract route), dark + master of mind,
summoning, enlightenment+intelligence+eagle eye, summoning, logistics + scouting +swift mind.
Battle strategy: Keep your units in a loose formation, so that meteor shower can't hit the liches, vamps and wraiths at the same time. Place ghosts spectres (possibly split) so that they will block large units such as dragons. The battle should be started with a mass slow/frenzy/pupet depending on what units you face. Then play it deffensive, do not rush his units, only fighting those that are on your side of the battlefield. Pull out your best summoning or use CotN, raise fallen stacks if you have to. Once you feel that he's running out of mana, summon a phoenix/elemental and continue resurecting.
Slowing is important in the beginning since it will make the dungeon player do alot less damage with his units per turn, making the defensive strategy more viable.
With high hp and defense Necropolis should last some turns crippling dungeon's destructive in the process and winning with summoning in the end.
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DarkShadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted April 01, 2008 05:41 PM |
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Nononononononononononononononononononono!CoTN is the way,not summoning.
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted April 01, 2008 09:33 PM |
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Quote:
The key for necro is to outlast the dungeon player, if you manage to survive the spells even with a lesser army you have a good chance at winning.
Well, I think this is kind of idea, with necro is natural to think about defense. Imho, this could work on small maps when warlock have not too much time to get much wisdom. Unfortunately about 4th week warlock can already have 100 mana and about 10-15 spellpower so I doubt anybody could survive letting him use all 100 points of mana.
But for now, I would attack as early as I can get Vampire lords and master of mind. Not even bother about high level creatures, just get all I can by 3rd week and rush. Letting enemy use all his mana seems risky for me so I would aim for attack to let the battle end asap.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 02, 2008 09:53 AM |
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Depends on map. On rich, about 4th week he has 30+ SP and a lot more mana than you say. Attacking early and without anything to stop stalkers, you're begging for stalker abuse and happy eldritch arrow shooting. You need to strengthen up yourself first.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted April 02, 2008 01:35 PM |
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Edited by kermit at 13:37, 02 Apr 2008.
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100 mana is wasted VERY fast with empowered spells:
Empowered Meteor Shower costs 19 x 2 = 38 mp
Empowered Fireball = 10 x 2 = 20 mp
Empowered Implosion = 18 x 2 = 36mp
So basically after 2 empowered meteor casts the warlock is out of mana. The warlock could reduce the mana costs by using sinitar (20% reduction at lvl 20 from memory) and sorcery perks such as eratic mana and arcane training. However it is rather unlikely that the warlock will go for sorcery perks because he needs his skill points elsewhere.
So with Sinitar and arcane training you'll get:
Empowered Meteor Shower costs = 38 *0.8*0.8 = 24mp
Empowered Fireball = 20*0.64 = 12mp
Empowered Implosion = 23mp
This gives 4 empowered meteor casts
Although I admit that a 30SP warlock will wreak immense havoc with just one spell, a 15SP warlock is hardly a problem and will run out of mana on many occasions before he manages to kill you.
ON a final note, I've played Necro for quite a while with offensive tactics, and I'm sorry to say that even with improved ini artifacts decent 10+ atack , battle frenzy and tactics you won't have the advantage in melee. Necro armies have good hp and survivability but they lack damage even in numbers. Their power lies in magic not in might. If you're used to playing necro offensively (i.e rushing all units to the front), give the defensive way a try and see for yourself.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 02, 2008 02:07 PM |
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you can easily get more mana than 100 with warlock. On any map.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted April 02, 2008 02:32 PM |
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I had about 500 mana a few times
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