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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: A new method for heroes to die in battle
Thread: A new method for heroes to die in battle This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
Moonlith
Moonlith


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted May 29, 2008 04:30 PM

Quote:
And I agree, Hero parameters have too much influence on creatures in combat. With a high-level Hero, you can play practically lossless even against superior armies with only a low-level Hero.

Exactly. One could argue it is the reward for a lot of work, but that doesn't make it any less unfair, or unrealistic. The other player had put at least as much effort into his own level 30 hero.

Problem is, how would you solve this? Decreasing impact of Attack and Defense statistics would only nerf might heroes.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 29, 2008 05:05 PM

Perhaps it should be like in H4, but maybe there should be two separate attack and defense stats: two that modify the creatures, and two that are the hero's. Also, the hero's strength shouldn't grow so much.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted May 29, 2008 10:18 PM

Quote:
Perhaps it should be like in H4, but maybe there should be two separate attack and defense stats: two that modify the creatures, and two that are the hero's. Also, the hero's strength shouldn't grow so much.


Something like what I suggested in my first post, dump the Combat skill and have artifacts affecting only the hero (in the case of primary skill boosters).

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ThE_HyDrA
ThE_HyDrA


Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
posted May 31, 2008 11:55 AM
Edited by ThE_HyDrA at 11:58, 31 May 2008.

This quandry has existed since heroes were put onto the battlefield in Heroes IV, and it doesn't seem like it'll resolve itself anytime soon. Fabrice purported before H5 was released that they had reached a compromise between H4 and the previous games in the series. I don't think adding a physical hero attack is enough to warrant a hero being actively involved in the battle. It is merely a physical analog for spells, where the power is dependent on hero level compared with SpellPower.

I agree with Alci in the sense that I would like to see Heroes on the battlefield for a sense of realism. The game portrays them as almost omnipotent deities sitting on their throne, untouchable, at the side of the battlefield. The main point we're forgetting about H4 is that potions were a large part of the game, especially potions such as that of immortality, which would enable a spellcasting hero to survive long enough to cast debilitating spells such as plague that would endure a great portion of the combat. The siege system in H4 also served to increase the potency of magic heroes. It certainly wasn't that might heroes with combat were clearly the stronger of the two. It just requires more resourcefulness to use the magic heroes to the same effect.

I would like to see a true hybrid of the hero's scope in battle. H5 did not provide enough diversity in this regard. A system whereby the player must choose between two effects may serve as appropriate compromise (at least at face value, the idea is merely speculative):
- All armies must still have a hero (unlike H4)
- The hero starts the combat on the sidelines.
- when on the sidelines, the army is influenced by his/her primary statistics (or a synonymous H6 iteration of them) and may cast spells.
- when in battle, the hero may attack physically or with spells, but his/her primary statistics do not influence the army. There must also be another certain bonus to influence magic heroes to move onto the battlefield, such as double spellpower, or the ability to cast certain spells, etc.
- the hero cannot move between phases. So once the hero descends onto the field of battle, he/she cannot move back to his/her steed.
- A hero cannot die in combat, but it can be removed from the field (i.e., it can have 0 HP, but it is left in a disconsolate state - cf explorers from AoE 3), and it may not take part in any further battles until the army reaches a tavern, etc.

While this idea may not be well balanced at the minute, it may have the potential to be so given a different gameplay structure. If implented properly, it would not be a dissimilar system to chess, (when to bring the Queen out, etc.) It is obviously slightly incongruous with the H5 system, so primary skills and spells would have to be tweaked in order to accommodate it. But by all accounts, H6 should be a more radical game seeing as H5 was more a conservative experiment for Nival. Well done to Darkavatar for re-igniting such a debate.
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.

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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted May 31, 2008 12:38 PM

Quote:
- when in battle, the hero may attack physically or with spells, but his/her primary statistics do not influence the army. There must also be another certain bonus to influence magic heroes to move onto the battlefield, such as double spellpower, or the ability to cast certain spells, etc.



-alright, I can live with that(the text Ive bolded), but what about a compromise? Fx 1/3 of the stats affect creatures(more or less), A might hero affect melee units(or/and ranged) and a magic hero affects magic units(a little problem if there are few of those units) or another idea.

IMO your idea will create a disadvantage if you let your hero join the battle. Of course the heroes should get a special effect but leaving the creatures without stat changes would unbalance it all.  
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
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Darkavatar
Darkavatar


Adventuring Hero
Overlord Divine
posted May 31, 2008 01:27 PM

Quote:
Well done to Darkavatar for re-igniting such a debate.


Thanks!!
If we all continue to work together on an idea, we maybe will find the perfect "battle-system" for heroes.
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What is it exactly we have created. It is "New World Order".

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LordBoogieBlue
LordBoogieBlue

Tavern Dweller
posted August 07, 2018 05:45 AM

During Heroes 3 my biggest wish and I mean my absolutely biggest wish was, I wish the heroes themselves could fight in battle.

Then Heroes 4 came out and bam my dream came true and I found it absolutely awesome, the Homm IV hero system wasn't that bad in my opinion just needed a bit more refining. Im sure magical heroes can have a natural physical defense through magic and stuff.

Then came Homm V the feature I had waited forever to be included in heroes games was taken out and heroes was going back to dumbing itself down for the classical formula. Heroes IV was the greatest thing ever it just didn't receive the attention it needed. Every heroes games was an amazing advancement including 4 and after that heroes died for me.

For me I would do anything for heroes to return to combat, instead I see dumbing down and returning to old ideas every game.

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