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| Thread: Musicians Tavern |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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william
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LummoxLewis
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posted July 31, 2008 07:31 AM |
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You are both two very huge fans of electronic music right?
I am a fan of electronic music and also many other genres. I make electronic music therefore I do disagree with many of your opinions about Electronic music.
Computers have been used with Electronic music since the '80s in case you didn't know. They were mainly used for sequencing and midi.
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waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Drako_the_noob
Known Hero
Banned
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posted August 01, 2008 02:42 PM |
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Currently NO electronic music "artist" will make music like this.
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted August 01, 2008 02:46 PM |
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Currently NO electronic music "artist" will make music like this.
You forgot to mention that YouTube is electronic, therefore the above link is "electronic". Mind you, there's a difference between electronic music (style), and electronic type. Like I said, I am a fan of orchestra (like above, but more like FILM MUSIC, which is more interesting in my opinion) emulated on computer. Since I don't ever have the money to perform an orchestra live, then whatever recording can be done in computer software.
Both lead to the same thing: binary data 
YouTube has binary data as well.
Here's an example of an orchestral theme made with computer software (by Jeremy Soule).
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Drako_the_noob
Known Hero
Banned
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posted August 01, 2008 03:00 PM |
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Not bad, but I still prefer 1700s and 1800s Classical Music over Electronic music. I am a metal-head, but unlike most of rockers and metalheads, I am also a big fan of Vivaldi, Mozart, and most of all, the King of classical music: Johann Sebastian Bach!
Here are some cool songs 
Toccata by JS Bach
Vivladi - Spring I
Mozart - Symphony No.36
Bramms - Hungarian Dance No.5
Listen them, and see that Live Performances are better than those **** softwares. They didn't use any computer. Just performed!
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted August 01, 2008 03:03 PM |
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Listen them, and see that Live Performances are better than those **** softwares. They didn't use any computer. Just performed!
Don't you get it? If I listen to them through speakers then it is not a LIVE performance.
Like I said, when you hear music from ANY speakers or headphones, it can be done with computer software EXACTLY the same.
Of course, I have no doubt that a LIVE performance (no recording) is a lot better. But it's sometimes too expensive (for the one performing/organizing it).
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Drako_the_noob
Known Hero
Banned
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posted August 01, 2008 03:05 PM |
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Listen them, and see that Live Performances are better than those **** softwares. They didn't use any computer. Just performed!
Don't you get it? If I listen to them through speakers then it is not a LIVE performance.
Like I said, when you hear music from ANY speakers or headphones, it can be done with computer software EXACTLY the same.
Of course, I have no doubt that a LIVE performance (no recording) is a lot better. But it's sometimes too expensive (for the one performing/organizing it).
Currently EVERYONE listens it though speaker. And at least, if you listen speaker its not have to be software. For me, "Software Music" is music made by ONLY computer.
And yes, live performances are better. All classical music songs, and 99% of rock and metal songs are better live. For example, ALL Queen songs are better live
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TheDeath
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posted August 01, 2008 03:09 PM |
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Currently EVERYONE listens it though speaker. And at least, if you listen speaker its not have to be software. For me, "Software Music" is music made by ONLY computer.
Software/Hardware = digital or analog or electronic.
Speakers = digital or analog or electronic.
basically it's like this. When you record something, you store it in memory (hard disk, whatever), as only 1s and 0s. For example, if you recorded the following data:
100101010100100
Then i can use computer software to write exactly that, and be exactly the same. Of course, a music is tens of megabytes (the above is about 1 byte!!), so it's a lot harder, but IT CAN BE DONE.
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And yes, live performances are better. All classical music songs, and 99% of rock and metal songs are better live. For example, ALL Queen songs are better live
I agree. However "live" means without any speakers what-so-ever. If you amplify it with speakers, it's not "live" anymore, it's still digital or analog or electronic. Take your pick.
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william
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LummoxLewis
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posted August 02, 2008 07:32 AM |
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Currently EVERYONE listens it though speaker. And at least, if you listen speaker its not have to be software. For me, "Software Music" is music made by ONLY computer.
Would you consider music that has been recorded not by computers, but is then put into a computer and edited a bit (adding effects, moving things around etc) to be software music?
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Drako_the_noob
Known Hero
Banned
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posted August 02, 2008 09:38 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Currently EVERYONE listens it though speaker. And at least, if you listen speaker its not have to be software. For me, "Software Music" is music made by ONLY computer.
Would you consider music that has been recorded not by computers, but is then put into a computer and edited a bit (adding effects, moving things around etc) to be software music?
No, I don't consider it software music.
And I don't consider music heard via speaker software music, either (unlike TheDeath)
I consider only Techno and Software Synth based music as Software music, and all Eelctronic genres cannot be performed live. Tangerine Dream did awesome live performances, why you and TheDeath cannot do it?
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william
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LummoxLewis
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posted August 02, 2008 09:54 AM |
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No, I don't consider it software music.
And I don't consider music heard via speaker software music, either (unlike TheDeath)
I think that The_Death was saying that sound coming out of speakers is electronic, not as in the genre of music.
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I consider only Techno and Software Synth based music as Software music
No, not all techno music is made via computers or software. Music made by software synthesizers is NOT software music. There is no software music genre. If the music is electronic, then it would be an electronic music genre. If it sounds techno, then it is music from the techno genre.
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all Eelctronic genres cannot be performed live. Tangerine Dream did awesome live performances, why you and TheDeath cannot do it?
Strange that you say that all Electronic genres can't be performed live and then go on to mention that Tangerine Dream did awesome live performances even though Tangerine Dream's music was of the Electronic genre.
I could do it, The_Death can do it. It might be hard but it is possible. And Tangerine Dream use software synthesizers nowadays so I don't get your point?
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make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Drako_the_noob
Known Hero
Banned
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posted August 02, 2008 10:01 AM |
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No, I don't consider it software music.
And I don't consider music heard via speaker software music, either (unlike TheDeath)
I think that The_Death was saying that sound coming out of speakers is electronic, not as in the genre of music.
And I have meant music made by ONLY computeers (I don't consider speak as computer) and no real, or hardware instruments.
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I consider only Techno and Software Synth based music as Software music
No, not all techno music is made via computers or software. Music made by software synthesizers is NOT software music. There is no software music genre. If the music is electronic, then it would be an electronic music genre. If it sounds techno, then it is music from the techno genre.
Currently, if you ask a techno music listener... if you ask him that he knows c-major, 1/4 rhytytm, then he answers no. Becse he's not a musician. He's a computer freak.
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all Eelctronic genres cannot be performed live. Tangerine Dream did awesome live performances, why you and TheDeath cannot do it?
Strange that you say that all Electronic genres can't be performed live and then go on to mention that Tangerine Dream did awesome live performances even though Tangerine Dream's music was of the Electronic genre.
I could do it, The_Death can do it. It might be hard but it is possible. And Tangerine Dream use software synthesizers nowadays so I don't get your point?
Tangerine Dream was the best at the 70s... when there wasn't Software Synths...
If you and The_Death can make live performances, then go for it, use your Synths.
I ask you.
Wht do you prefer?
Live Performances OR Music made by Softwares?
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william
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LummoxLewis
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posted August 02, 2008 10:14 AM |
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*Takes a drink of Beer*
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Currently, if you ask a techno music listener... if you ask him that he knows c-major, 1/4 rhytytm, then he answers no. Becse he's not a musician. He's a computer freak.
What gives you that impression? Have you met anyone and asked them that? If you have, that might have been 1 person out of how many in this world? I can assure you that MANY or MOST Techno musicians know what C-major is and 1/4 rhythm. Not all Techno musicians use computers to make music. Just remember that.
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Tangerine Dream was the best at the 70s... when there wasn't Software Synths...
Well I guess you're right about that since Midi came about in the '80s.
Here is some information from Wikipedia (I know, a bad source but it will do) about Midi and computers:
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In the 1980s, MIDI facilitated the development of hardware and computer-based sequencers, which can be used to record, edit and play back performances. In the years immediately after the 1983 ratification of the MIDI specification, MIDI interfaces were released for the Apple Macintosh, Commodore 64, and the PC-DOS platform, allowing for the development of a market for powerful, inexpensive, and now-widespread computer-based MIDI sequencers. The Atari ST came equipped with MIDI ports as standard, and was commonly used in recording studios for this reason. Synchronization of MIDI sequences is made possible by the use of MIDI timecode, an implementation of the SMPTE time code standard using MIDI messages, and MIDI timecode has become the standard for digital music synchronization.
Oh and in my opinion, Tangerine Dream was much better in the 1980's since they didn't rely too much on Improvisation techniques. Their music was more easy to follow and it just sounded better. Improvisation isn't too bad though, since that would mean that no one concert is going to be entirely the same, but improvisation isn't the best way to go about things.
You listen to 1970's Tangerine Dream and compare it to 1980's Tangerine Dream and you will see the massive difference. Face it, with the introduction of computers in music, things started to sound better. It was easier to be edited, overdubbed, recorded etc.
Although many argue that Computer recordings are not as good as LP recordings. I hope you know what LP's are.
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I ask you.
Wht do you prefer?
Live Performances OR Music made by Softwares?
It's really hard to say since they are both very different. You have more flexibility when you make your music in the studio and it is easy to fix mistakes that you might make. When you are in a live performance, mistakes are really not that easy to fix (I guess computers could edit the mistakes out, but still...), and you really only have one go at the songs.
I have heard some great live performances. Take Tangerine Dream's Poland concert for example. Now you really can't get better than that, in my opinion. The temperature was in the negatives, the synthesizers had to be warmed up using gas heaters (I think), and the band had to wear gloves with the finger tips cut off. They made no mistakes at all, and everything went fine. Now those kinds of things wouldn't really apply in the studio so you would have all that stress and difficulty taken away from you.
The point is is that they are really entirely different. And it all boils down to what the person wants to do. At this stage, I am not so sure. I am happy making songs here at home where I am comfortable. If you ask that to me in a few years then I am sure my response would be different.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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baklava
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posted August 02, 2008 11:47 AM |
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Face it, with the introduction of computers in music, things started to sound better. It was easier to be edited, overdubbed, recorded etc.
I was waiting for someone to mention this...
Editing and overdubbing music does not necessarily make it better. Far from that, actually. In terms of quality, classic music by far takes the first place, followed by blues and jazz, then rock&roll (in the 60s-80s) and finally metal and newer types of music. The quality decreased with the introduction of computers (and technology overall, while we're at it) since suddenly everything became so easy. Yes, there are things that sound good, or have some great elements, but today to find a band or an individual whose overall quality, skill, style and, well, everything matches that of any of the bands that, say, performed at Woodstock is nigh impossible.
In terms of availability of music and similar, by all means I agree, computers played a great role in that. Imagine how hard it would be to have complete audio collections of Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, Deep Purple, Iron Maiden and similar today in 2008 on LP records, and how easy it is with MP3. But it also lead to greater commercialization, cheaper substitutions (saving money on humans cause computers can do pretty much the same thing), and generally, as technology always does, focused on making things easier (for example, KD... Draco's band where they distort vocals and similar). A computer-enhanced vocal can sound good, but it can't be measured with one that does not need a computer to sound good.
I actually like a few electronic bands, like Prodigy, Fatboy Slim or Infected Mushroom. And I respect the quality of Depeche Mode and similar, though I don't generally listen to them. But my tastes aside, it's undeniable that the quality of music was higher toward the beginning of the 20th century. Now, which music you find more fun or which you prefer is a matter of taste, not discussion. 
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Drako_the_noob
Known Hero
Banned
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posted August 02, 2008 11:53 AM |
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Baklava, you forget, the my band, use computer ONLY to distorate vocals and put guitar, bass, drumms, cello, keyboards and vocal tracks together. We don' use computer to repair songs. Maybe make the vocals lower pitched.
At live performances, everything is easy... we doesen't have to care about Equaliser, ballance, and any other ****s. We just play.
And our main influences (unlike most of black metal bands and death metal bands) are Queen and Guns N'Roses (guitar solos) , Nightwish (keyboards style), Black Sabbath, and classical music (cellos, piano solos), but we are also influenced by Bathory (guitar riffs, grownling, vocals).
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baklava
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posted August 02, 2008 12:00 PM |
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I know, no disrespect meant to your band, I just mentioned it as the first example that crossed my mind
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted August 02, 2008 12:02 PM |
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Edited by william at 12:04, 02 Aug 2008.
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Want something to drink Baklava? This is a tavern after all
Now.....
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Editing and overdubbing music does not necessarily make it better. Far from that, actually.
Those were just some examples. There are many more reasons but I am pretty sure you wouldn't want me to list them all, now would you?
There is never going to be a perfect band. We are all prone to mistakes. Now don't you think that if we do make mistakes, that it would be better to edit it out and replace it with something else? Or perhaps even editing it to make it not so noticeable. You could always try to do it all over again but that takes time. Computers do make things easier like you have said, but just because things are easier doesn't mean it detracts from the quality.
Computers are, in my opinion, needed for Electronic music, especially nowadays. Back in the 1970's, they were not needed basically because computers were not used for music. They didn't have synthesizers on computers. It is good if a band uses their natural skill to make a song, but if they use a computer to make things easier, does that mean that the song won't be any good or that it won't be of a quality standard?
I know my examples probably were not the best, but that is all I could really think of at the time that I wrote that. Computers don't fit into every genre of music, like Classical music, but for the genres that it does fit in with, it works out quite nicely.
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The quality decreased with the introduction of computers (and technology overall, while we're at it) since suddenly everything became so easy.
Would you say the same about the quality of movies?
I respect your opinions and all that. It is good to have some different opinions about this.
Now onto Draco...
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At live performances, everything is easy... we doesen't have to care about Equaliser, ballance, and any other ****s. We just play.
Haha. I would really like to hear your stuff at a live concert one day then or perhaps some studio verions of songs. Do you know how important an Equaliser is?
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make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted August 02, 2008 12:20 PM |
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Ah. Right. I'll have a Guiness and some peanuts please.
Oh wait. It's a tavern, not a pub. Damn it.
We're not allowed to change it into Irish Pub of the Rising Sun, are we?
Now.
You don't have to list all the benefits of computers, I'm aware of them myself, as well as I'm aware of the bad side of it. It's a double-edged blade, that's all I'm saying.
Editing out mistakes is nice in short term, but if you do it all the time you'll find yourself quite prone to them. On the other hand, if you start it all over again whenever you go wrong, you get more practice and your chances of mistaking in the future are considerably lower. In the end, you can learn to conceal your eventual mistakes (quite rare by that point, but never mind) with improvisation. Which can turn out sounding even better than if you played it right.
And that's the thing. Just cause it's all easier, it's wonderful in the beginning, but you can hardly become a master of the skill.
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Would you say the same about the quality of movies?
Without a moment of hesitation, but that's for another discussion
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted August 02, 2008 12:29 PM |
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Well, since it is just me running this pub, I guess I can get some of that from out the back. But before I do that...
I do get your point, but that can also happen with editing as well. If a person was to record their music and then edit it later, they would probably learn from that mistake and try to avoid it in the future. Practicing and editing your own music are two techniques that can help in preventing future mistakes. That and getting feedback from people that listen to your music. I have had to edit my music quite a lot and have found some mistakes and learned from them. When I was playing hardware keyboards, I found that I made many mistakes and I eventually got around to learning from them. So those are two examples of where editing and practicing can both help in learning from your own mistakes.
I guess you could also take into account the persons own natural ability and how they play songs, but it could happen to them as well.
And I dunno how you could avoid making mistakes in improvisation when you don't even know what you will be doing next, or am I misunderstanding the point of improvisation?
Also, you might not be a master of skill, but just look at how much money some people get out of just doing the computer related stuff in music.
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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TheDeath
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posted August 02, 2008 02:11 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 14:12, 02 Aug 2008.
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To clear stuff up...
To clear this up: There is no such thing as "software" GENRE. Computers can MAKE absolutely ANYTHING you can hear from speakers. After all, remember that a CD has only 1s and 0s. You can put them "manually" (although it's too tedious). Recording only puts the data 'automatically', but does absolutely nothing magical.
My point is, with computer software you can make absolutely any kind of sound that you hear from speakers, without needing to record (although again, recording makes it EASIER). Please read the bolded part. It is important.
An instrument played live (without any amplification or SPEAKERS) will sound better, in most cases. When you put speakers, it becomes digital and computer-ish.
Again, computer software has NOTHING to do with GENRE. With computers you can make (without needing to record, but recording makes it almost always EASIER):
1) sound effects (this isn't even music!)
2) orchestral (my personal favorite )
3) electronic genre
4) hard metal
5) etc...
absolutely ANYTHING that can be recorded CAN be created with computers, if you KNOW how to do it. Recording, again, only makes it EASIER. Music stored on any digital or analog media is only DATA. Data can be created purely by computer software.
So yeah, I very much like to listen to orchestral music made with computers (recording falls in the same place, remember!), and personally I find it a lot cheaper than hiring a full orchestra (1000$ just for 30 seconds of a full orchestra  ).
The difference is only when played live, without any speakers. But since that's too expensive (not to mention it's not "repeatable") it's usually not worth it.
Live = no speakers AT ALL
Speakers = digital or analog (which means anything that a computer can DO).
(btw: I don't like pop, techno, disco or anything; ambiance electronic can be nice sometimes (william introduced me to it), but the most I prefer orchestral music from movies or games).
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william
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Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted August 02, 2008 02:19 PM |
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Edited by william at 14:20, 02 Aug 2008.
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Most instruments that are electronic based would need a speaker of some kind so it would sound pretty much the same when in a live environment or in the studio. Difference with Live though, is that there would need to be a bit of tweaking with Equalisers because the acoustics of the room are quite different than those in a studio room. With most synths, you would need to have some sort of amplification or a speaker in order to hear the instrument. Of course, other instruments like a Violin or a Guitar is able to be played both with or without amps or speakers.
Also, would you consider a speaker to sound too digitalised or computer-ish when the speaker is not a powered one? I have plugged my Ipod into a non-powered speaker and it sounded pretty much the same.
And I disagree with you saying that an instrument played live without any amplification or use of speakers will sound better in most cases. I think they are both needed especially for live. Could you imagine the guitar band member playing their guitar without speakers or amps in front of a very large crowd? Most of the crowd probably wouldn't be able to hear it.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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