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| Thread: What actualy happens when we die. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Galev
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Galiv :D
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posted August 17, 2008 01:09 PM |
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Well, if there's any, then this is the only question everyone will have the true answer for, for sure, isn't it? We all will die, we all will know. Why wonder so much about?
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Asheera
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posted August 17, 2008 01:21 PM |
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Quote:
we enter the spiritworld!
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TheDeath
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posted August 17, 2008 01:26 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 13:52, 17 Aug 2008.
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What happens when we die? What happens with the body that people see? Or with ourselves?
This is difficult to explain, because you have to distinguish between a person, an individual, and the I (as in "myself", but not as a person from others, but as the "first person" perspective). What happens to the first person perspective (i.e the one we "see", "feel" and "think", etc...)? The answer is extremely hard to explain, if you want an argument for it. It would take a lot of time here, that I don't have right now.
However, if you are satisfied with claims, then let's say it's a form of "projection" (yes, I know I use too many math words, but that's the point of my post, to explain it from a different perspective) of your thoughts. What I believe, the thoughts precede the actually 'reactions' in your body/brain/whatever. The soul is not a "substance", but if you're not comfortable with that word, then your thoughts are not a "substance" the same way that imagination is not (even though, as we all know, it exists, but it is impossible to explain, if someone has never experienced it before). You can draw some things from quantum or relativity about "space" to make it more reasonable to you, but I don't see the point. What I mean is that it has no definite "position" or "length" or "width" or anything, because it simply does not OCCUPY the 'space' we know (3 dimensions, whatever). It is not hard to imagine, if you practice mathematics with dimensions every day, but it is hard to visualize, though not impossible (meditation helps a lot). I think that, contrary to most "absolutists", what defines you and only you is only your thoughts -- the fact that you can say I (as in the ego) does not refer specifically only to another person, like "John", or "Smith", in that way we could speak in third person. I is different. It refers to your "first person" perspective, well at least philosophically. This "I" never 'dies', because 'dying' is just a natural phenomenon that applies relative to you, I mean you wouldn't know that word without going through your "I" first 
As for Heaven or Hell, for me they are not "spaces" or "objects" or "locations", at least not in the familiar sense, because they do not reside in space. I don't even think they have time. Hard to imagine, it's messing with your brain I know, that's why it's either hard to explain. They are projections of your thoughts, at least in THIS life i mean (obviously). As we all know, even in this life, everything is relative, and time is not separated from space. So if space doesn't exist then why should time? They are related directly. It is hard to explain this relation, because you'll need to visualize 4D space.
I'm not saying this is a proof for them, but it's what I find through experiences and rationality (not logic!!!). The best way to get rid of headaches is to simply stop wondering, it'll come sometime anyway.
This subject is way too complicated to discuss here I'm afraid.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted August 17, 2008 02:03 PM |
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Wow, a damn lot of omniscient guys here, I see. Are the sentences "I don't know" or "I'm not sure" even present at your dictionary, guys? 
My answer is: I don't know, and nobody else does
lol? of course no one knows.
He's just asking for your prediction so to speak
Saying it like that sounds like we should set up some odds for the punters:
Decay- 2.15$
Purgatory- 10.50$
Underworld- 8.40$
Heaven- 30.20$
Hell- 1.01$
Now taking bets
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Doomforge
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posted August 17, 2008 03:05 PM |
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TA: sure, yet check how sure people are that they are right.. here on HC too even when the topic concerns things nobody can be sure about..
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I'm not saying this is a proof for them, but it's what I find through experiences and rationality (not logic!!!). The best way to get rid of headaches is to simply stop wondering, it'll come sometime anyway.
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kesnar
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from Kesnaria
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posted August 17, 2008 07:06 PM |
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We are going to Mars
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DagothGares
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posted August 17, 2008 07:23 PM |
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I'm pretty sure that mars will come to us.
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mvassilev
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posted August 17, 2008 08:00 PM |
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TheDeath:
I'm curious, how did you come to think of such an idea?
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TheDeath
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posted August 17, 2008 08:20 PM |
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I'm curious, how did you come to think of such an idea?
Besides experience, thinking and reading stuff? (math and philosophy)
I have to admit, relativity and quantum theories did influence my view about the "classical" 4D world where time has nothing to do with space (which is wrong). It's hard if you can't visualize how they are "connected" (and I do MEAN connected, because as you know, moving through space with a higher speed slows down "time" compared those with lower speed).
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No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 17, 2008 08:38 PM |
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@Death: But what if our soul is a creation of our brain that can't survive without them? As long as I know brains do get destroyed too.
So technically as long as our brains aren't destroyed we are alive just 'unconcious' in a way. But when our brains are damaged enough the soul dies too because there's nothing keeping it alive.
As for too complicated issues to discuss here. They are not. Comprehending time as a fourth dimension doesn't need capability of seeing a 4D model. Only problem is is language but it can be circumvented somehow.
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TheDeath
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posted August 17, 2008 08:41 PM |
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@Death: But what if our soul is a creation of our brain that can't survive without them? As long as I know brains do get destroyed too.
So technically as long as our brains aren't destroyed we are alive just 'unconcious' in a way. But when our brains are damaged enough the soul dies too because there's nothing keeping it alive.
Actually the "I" in my post was referring to something that "controls" the brain. The brain is like a convertor, that converts that signal.
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As for too complicated issues to discuss here. They are not. Comprehending time as a fourth dimension doesn't need capability of seeing a 4D model. Only problem is is language but it can be circumvented somehow.
It is, if you take into account the fact that "space" (and speed) affects it. 
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 17, 2008 08:54 PM |
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I know you were referring to 'I' as something that controls the brain but I was referring the other way around. Since there's no way to prove either way that's just poiontless arguing about it. Except for the memories. 'I' gather's memories, brains gather memories, when the memories from the brains are removed they vanish from the 'I' too. But if they are removed from the 'I' they dont vanish from the brains. But after a long enough time they do but after a time...
You can of course just say that they were blocked not removed but enough of that.
I really don't have any abilities to see 4D model in any way yet I understand time as a fourth dimension. It is very overwhelming but I can understand it unlike the beginning of the world which is beyond my grasp no matter if it's god greated or big barabuum.
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TheDeath
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posted August 17, 2008 09:05 PM |
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I know you were referring to 'I' as something that controls the brain but I was referring the other way around. Since there's no way to prove either way that's just poiontless arguing about it. Except for the memories. 'I' gather's memories, brains gather memories, when the memories from the brains are removed they vanish from the 'I' too. But if they are removed from the 'I' they dont vanish from the brains. But after a long enough time they do but after a time...
Of course the brain keeps memories. Of course what is conscious is not the only thing -- with hypnosis some people remembered a lot of things they wouldn't have otherwise, and in fact even "recalled" other people's existence, whom they had no contact with! Really strange, confuses the brain.
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I really don't have any abilities to see 4D model in any way yet I understand time as a fourth dimension. It is very overwhelming but I can understand it unlike the beginning of the world which is beyond my grasp no matter if it's god greated or big barabuum.
I agree -- the beginning is hard to grasp, in fact who said that I do? I only know however, that a world without time (and space, the moment at the beginning -- even Big Bang theory is like that, compacting infinitely, etc) can exist, mathematically. Even though it's impossible for me to "visualize" or "grasp" such an idea, I'm not ignorant enough to say "it's impossible" or something
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 17, 2008 09:39 PM |
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But hypnosis influences the person. The seeds of such unknown encounter are planted during it. It can't be used as evidence.
I made my point that I can grasp the idea of time as a fourth dimension. So others might be able too.
As for the beginning, I can't grasp it for simple reason. I can't understand how something can come from nothing. I can comprehend world without space or time but I can't comprehend world without anything, for me there is no world then.
Another thing I can't comprehend is what there is beyond our world if it keeps growing.
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TheDeath
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posted August 17, 2008 09:56 PM |
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But hypnosis influences the person. The seeds of such unknown encounter are planted during it. It can't be used as evidence.
Evidence? Who said anything about evidence?
I meant that, if someone recalls what someone else did, maybe the brain or the "I" had a connection, or maybe both "store" memories? really weird.
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I made my point that I can grasp the idea of time as a fourth dimension. So others might be able too.
And I agreed, I mean, I even stated that some people can even VISUALIZE a 4D world (5D if you count time) 
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I can comprehend world without space or time but I can't comprehend world without anything, for me there is no world then.
Maybe it had "something" but that something didn't had space or time -- i mean, it didn't have "width", "height", etc...
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Doomforge
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posted August 17, 2008 10:21 PM |
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Try 9D. I used it in my book (yup I'm writing one) - the demons I imagined had vastly superior intelligence to humans, one of the indicators was that they comprehended nine-dimensional worlds. Why not more? Dunno, I like the 9 number. 9D sounds secksay!
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mvassilev
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posted August 18, 2008 12:28 AM |
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Quote:
I have to admit, relativity and quantum theories did influence my view about the "classical" 4D world where time has nothing to do with space (which is wrong). It's hard if you can't visualize how they are "connected" (and I do MEAN connected, because as you know, moving through space with a higher speed slows down "time" compared those with lower speed).
No, I mean your ideas about the I surviving.
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Trogdor
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Words in a custom title
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posted August 18, 2008 09:24 AM |
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We all remember a man named Norman Greenbaum who sang about the Spirit in the Sky and about going to Heaven when we die. That logic confuses me because when I look up to the sky I'm not too sure if what's up in the sky is Heaven or just outer space. Maybe if we sin we all go to the shadow realm, a lot like hell, only without Pete Doherty.
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angelito
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posted August 18, 2008 10:36 AM |
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These are not the wastelands...so please stop spamming here!
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 18, 2008 12:47 PM |
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But you used the hypnosis as a reason for your connection idea. In this it is not appropriate because it is a way of manipulating the person in question.
I can't visualize 4D but I understand it. Earlier you said that it was needed to visualize it to understand.
If a world had something then how could it be the beginning? Beginning of our world but not the beginning.
Sorry for spamming this thread Angelito. Should we make a new thread for this?
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