|
| Thread: Summon Elementals |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
posted October 27, 2008 09:05 AM |
|
|
I tried to make my own small mod yesterday (swapping Summen Elementals and Blade Barrier and boosting Earth and Air elementals).
I have a question: It seems to me that when using Summon Elementals, you don't get the 0.03 * level ATB boost that you do with some other Summoning spells (like Phantom Forces). Can anybody confirm this, and does anybody know: Exactly which spells DO get this bonus - does Summon Phoenix?
I tested the mod, and even though I had increased Initiative of Earth Elementals to 6 (wow) it took literally FOREVER before they had their first turn. 
|
|
Nebdar
Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
|
|
posted October 27, 2008 09:25 AM |
|
|
It seems that Phantom Force and Summon Wasp Hive only.
The Conjured Phoenix and Summoned Elementals seems to be treated like raise from the dead, creatures.
Did you know that: Conjured Phoenix has this ability
<DefenceBonusOnDefend>0.3</DefenceBonusOnDefend>
____________
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted October 27, 2008 10:03 AM |
|
|
Uhh isn't that true for all units? Everyone gets +30% def with defense command as far as I'm concerned.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Nebdar
Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
|
|
posted October 27, 2008 10:26 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Uhh isn't that true for all units? Everyone gets +30% def with defense command as far as I'm concerned.
Yes you are right(Fan Manual page 311)
Quote:
I have a question: It seems to me that when using Summon Elementals, you don't get the 0.03 * level ATB boost that you do with some other Summoning spells (like Phantom Forces). Can anybody confirm this, and does anybody know: Exactly which spells DO get this bonus - does Summon Phoenix?
Fan manual page 312
When summoned by the Phantom Forces spell, clones get an ATB value depending on the casters level: ATB = 0.4 + 0.02 * Level
Phoenix and Elementals get a random ATB value, multiple of 0.05 between 0 and 0.25.
____________
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted November 07, 2008 06:06 AM |
|
|
|
In order to be of use the elementals must have better iniative. Also must be stronger or in greater number. It is shame for level 4 spell to be so weak compared to other spell.
|
|
garnju
Hired Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2009 10:40 AM |
|
|
Hi
Pretty new in this forum, yet I'm following the history of this site over a year.
Btw sorry for my english, oh and I'm from Hungary.
About Summon elemental spells -> I think the best solution would be that, if number of summonned elemental numbers would be cumulative (just like in the original HV)
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted August 18, 2009 11:23 AM |
|
|
Welcome  Possibly but then it is still too random a spell, depending on terrain with 50% to summon one of the two you'd want. You can't even tell where they will appear.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
garnju
Hired Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2009 02:44 PM |
|
|
Thx Elvin.
Okay. What about this?
- Stacks are cumulative.
- 50% variety depend on terran is still.
- When you FIRST, cast the spell in a battle you can pick the exact place tough you can only choose between the starting blocks (2*10 or 3*10 with tactics perk)
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted August 18, 2009 02:52 PM |
|
|
Not so sure for two reasons. First if they are random then there's a 50% chance to get something useless for what you have in mind. Secondly if it was cumulative with necros being able to summon 70-80 fire warriors per cast.. That's quite sick.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
garnju
Hired Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2009 03:04 PM |
|
|
I think that 50% is like moral and luck. (not so high only 2) You can't get anything you want but if it happens you are like ... hm ... Duncan when first meet with Freyda.
Okay,okay .... cumulative but you only get 80%,60%...till 10% for the second, third and so on casts.
The only reason why like the cumulative stuff is coz I've really liked Zehir in the first HoMM V game, and summon elementals were badass when I first played Warlock without Destructive.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted August 18, 2009 03:15 PM |
|
|
Yeah it was fun, I completed the game in 1.0. But then there weren't skills like fire warriors for magic heroes.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
garnju
Hired Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2009 03:29 PM |
|
|
Maybe this 50% chance could be changed for a ... faction specific elemental summoning if the hero has fire warriors (renamed to ... don't really know maybe Natural allie).
Fire - Inferno, Fortress
Earth - Academy
Air - Haven, Dungeon
Water - Necropolis, Sylvan
Still my biggest problem with this spell is the none cumulative part.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted August 20, 2009 07:09 AM |
|
Edited by Elodin at 07:10, 20 Aug 2009.
|
Problem is only fire elementals are really useful, and that because of the fire warriors perk. Water used to be useful but was nerfed too much in the last patch. Earth is sooooo low initiative it may only act once in a battle and the battle will be well underway then. Well, air can sometimes be useful for blocking since they have high initiative and no retaliation.
I think it would be ok to increase the number of times the elementals could stack based on the mastery level of summoning. Advanced would allow one stacking, Expert two. That would help the spell somewhat.
I would prefer to see the elementals boosted with the level and stats of the caster, sort of like Phoenix is. But I think that would likely be beyond what a mod can do.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted August 20, 2009 08:22 AM |
|
|
I'm not sure on the stacking thing - high SP casters can get pretty massive stacks as it is, and stacking would make it crazy.
What I do think would be good is that:
1) Mastery let's you decide which element appears - i.e. none = random, basic = 50 % chance for favored, advanced = 75 % chance for favored, expert = 100 % chance for favored.
2) You decide where stack appears. This is crucial for particularly Earth elementals, because summoning a stack of these to block enemy shooters would be annoying like hell.
Unfortunately, none of these are moddable.
What I did instead is give Earth Elementals Initiative 6 + Dash ability, which makes them, well, passable.
Air Elementals have Incorporeality but only 25 HP, which still makes them annoying like hell.
I increased Water Elementals spell damage from 33 % to 70 % (I think, or was it 50 %?) - still, soemwhere in between current value and original value works well (typical Nival balancing, take something that's über and make it useless instead).
Fire Elementals are fine as they are.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
|
|
posted August 20, 2009 10:56 AM |
|
|
Quote:
What I did instead is give Earth Elementals Initiative 6 + Dash ability, which makes them, well, passable.
Air Elementals have Incorporeality but only 25 HP, which still makes them annoying like hell.
I increased Water Elementals spell damage from 33 % to 70 % (I think, or was it 50 %?) - still, soemwhere in between current value and original value works well (typical Nival balancing, take something that's über and make it useless instead).
Fire Elementals are fine as they are.
These are very good ideas, making elementals far more useful without making them overpowered, do you plan on sharing that mod?
____________
13 Heroes
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted August 22, 2009 08:24 PM |
|
|
I could probably do that at some point when my internet at home is back up. Otherwise, it's very easy to make, so I'm sure someone can make it in 5 minutes and then upload it.
Only problem might be with the Water Elementals I think, because this info lies in one of the common info files, which means it might interfere with other mods you have using that file.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
|
|
posted August 23, 2009 01:15 PM |
|
|
I guess I'm just feeling lazy.
Regarding Water elementals that can be a problem though...
____________
13 Heroes
|
|
rottenvenetic
Known Hero
Derusticated
|
|
posted September 02, 2009 01:06 PM |
|
|
I don't get it. Here the spell sucks, in other parts of the forum it says it's great. Is it just very bad with 3.1?
On a sidenote, when I play stronghold it gives me the elemental waistband as the random item about half the time  which is not to say those 3200 gold for selling it are a bad thing.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted September 02, 2009 01:25 PM |
|
|
It always kinda sucked But at least in the original unpatched version the summons stacked. Now only use for it is fire warriors perk and it's pretty decent though not always suitable for final battles.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
|
|
posted September 02, 2009 02:46 PM |
|
|
It can save your hide provided you've got some staying power (i.e. you can't get wiped out too quickly) but it is too situational to depend on it. If you can cast anything else and Elementals can tip the scale in your favour that is something to be grateful for in most cases it won't save the day (even with elemental waistband).
____________
13 Heroes
|
|
|
|
