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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: The storyline of HOMM V
Thread: The storyline of HOMM V This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted October 29, 2008 04:31 PM
Edited by Lesij at 16:35, 29 Oct 2008.

The storyline of HOMM V

Hi.
This is the topic to discuss what is good and what is bad about the history invented for HOMM V (if the topic already exists somewhere- then mods- do ur job ).

At first I would like to HIGHLIGHT that here,in this thread might be LOTS OF SPOILERS.
So, if u didn't play the campagin yet and u would rather like to discover the story by ur own the DO NOT READ IT.

K. Now I can start. I will use '+' for advantages and '-' for disadventages of the storyline.
Let's go then...

HOMM V:
- Quite pretensious at the beggining
+ Good demon/ dark elf (Agrael)
- More pretensious facts:
Good Knights, Elves and Wizards VERY BAD and DHAAAARKKHH Necros and Demons... Awful for me...There aws so many games with this and so many FAIRY TALES that I was fed up with it when I was 5... Now I am a lil bit older :]
- COPYYYY:
From Warcraft: Kind, brave, virtuous, handsome (and of course fair hair, blue-eyed- maybe brown this time don;t really rember) Prince becomes BAD and very DHHHHAAAARKKKKHHHH Necro, who is a mindless puppet in the hands of Necro Master -_-
Just give me a break...

To sum up:
- Annoying
- Awful
- I didn't really find anything funny in completeing the missions to see the stupid motion pictures telling me an idiotic story...
+ I really liked the Agrael's plot, but it's a bit too less to make me feel happy...

Scoring: 1/10
Sorry

HOF
+ Dwarves as an autonomic faction O.O
+ Wulfstan was very... Real? Take his character into account ofc...
+ Inside 'rotting' of Holy Griffin Empire!
+ Corrupted Laszlo!
- Stupid Freyda (unreal)
- Stupid Duncan (as well)
- Great love between those two (Bleahhhh )
- Deus Ex Machina! (Godric outta-this-world  help!)- usually authors use this when they don't have an idea to end the plot -_- Laaaame

To sum up:
+ Some interesting plots
+ It can be noticed that this time somebody more reliable wrote it, or the previous guy at last tried to make something worthy...
- Lots of stupid schemes and just SH*TTY Romance...
- DEUS EX MACHINAAAA!!! XD

Scoring: 5/10

TOTE
+ SWEEEET XD
+ Orcs as the good ones (they were abused for some many years and now they are fighting for FREEEEDOM! XD)
+ Necros as the good ones O.O
+ Knights and Wizards as the bad ones (made the experiments with demonic blood and abused the orcs)
+ Rotting of HGE continues!
+ Brand new outfit for the orcs (They are NOT green! The scheme was totally broken! First time in the HOMM V series)

To sum up:
+ Awsome XD Quite innovative
+ Very good manipulation with schemes
+ Breaking the schemes!

Scoring: 11/10 XD


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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted October 29, 2008 08:40 PM

Yes...

Am I the only one who misses the witty and charming Markal? I honestly find Arantir lacking in more ways than one. I have nothing against good necromancers... Actually I do.

They are inherently evil. The only way they win fights is by using dead people. How do they obtain them? By killing off course

Stop reading, if you haven't finished the HOMM V

Now, I do have to say that (when I say I like a character, then I don't mean the voices, they are usually pretty horrible) (exception: the original HOMM) I liked Alaric's madness and Quroq's thirst for slaughter and revenge. Mind you that both of these characters die and they keep this up until the end. How does it all start? Stupid girl and ... some guy get married. Yippie! It gets interrupted. W00t intrigue!

Then it gets pretty mediocre. The stupid girl goes off to aid her true love. Why? Because all women are strong, intelligent individuals who are equal, if not superior, to the opposite sex. Hang on,  think I just got something there

maybe isabel's a parody of strong fantasy women... Seriously, she beats everyone she encounters, although she does get kidnapped once in a while. She has a good rolemodel/ mentor around, but she listens to a cackling madman that noone would honestly take serious. At this point it's still believable (I mean, she can get her husband back who's slain by a jealous lover/ demon warlod ). Surprise surprise, the madman betrays her and turns out to be a necromancer (SHOCKING!)

In the meantime, this bloke that has fallen in love with Isabel, our beloved superstar, runs away and tries to save her. He eventually succeeds after having travelled from one end of the world to another and has gained control over all dark elf forces. He also gained a powerful and mystical artifact. Anyways, he saves her and she thanks him and runs off with the cackling maniac.

By the way, in the meantime, isabel and (a reluctant Godric) forged an alliance with Markal (the charming devil) (although, he's clearly mad) and destroyed (taken revenge on) the nation of wizards and Markal has gained utter supremacy over Ashan.

After Markal took control of the nation, the elves start to think something is up with that. A poet (!!!) takes up his armsand faces the ultimate evil, after having sided with the good mentor character. Both team up with a desire to save the human nation (and consequently Isabel). The dark elf joins up with them along with 'a trustworthy sidekick'. Luckily, I was so young at the time that it did shock when she turned evil.

They all face off the big baddy in a big climax where the big evil dude bites the dust.

BUT!!! It turns out they didn't save Isabel after all and that an evil clone became queen of the holy griffin empire.

Alright, that was a quick rant about the original one. Could you also clarify whatever you mean with pretentious? Also, I think elves and such have an actual alignment as to their origins. All elves respect nature. All wizards are scientists. All knights for their empire/ nation/ faction. All necromancers research the dead and have a grudge against thjose who cast them out. All demons serve Kha-Beleth and all dark elves are rogues. btw, (conclusion) If you're very young and new for the genre it does the job alright

Btw, you say warcraft? No, my friend, crawl back to wherever you came from. Nicolai was one hundred percent frankenstein (well, no, markal was frankenstein and Nicolai the monster)

Then comes HOF, which fails at some points for me:
-Necros are nerfed
-Brief campaign
-No necro campaign
-They kill godric (which was the only remaining likeable character around) (Zehir is meh and I don't like Findan and we already established that isabel is stupid (which is confirmed here))

HOF is pretty okay in the beginning, where it is shown that the knights f the realm can be bloodthirsty bastards as well. Consequently, something happens like tha spanish inquisition... Only a hundred times worse...

There are some people who have extremely modern ideas and rebel and say that this shouldn't happen. These people form a splinter faction.

In the meantime, a selection of dwarves face some internal problems and also split up.

Incidentally, a dark elf goes off to find her ruler who mysteriously disappeared. Luckily enough, she also finds Isabel (the real one ) along withh that bloke. Isabel has fallen in love with the person who killed her  sweet, beloved Nicolai
Anyway, all these people team up and fight a misguided and end the game with a cliffhanger of sorts.

How exactly were freyda and Duncan unreal?
Duncan was just this vagabond. And freyda was a soldier in a war against heretics.

What happens next?

TOTE

It was alright... Probably, because I liked a lot of characters (except for Arantir).

Well, this was the thing that wrapped up the entire series.

A genuine naive young girl steps up and serves her master, Giovanni. Giovanni gets slain by this pretentious bastard, Arantir who suddenly 'gained the power of Asha' and such and such. As all loyal apprentices would do, she gives her life to him (quite litterally) and once again a good character dies

Then we see a big orc chief getting really worked up and he starts to slaughter a lot of humans. The big orc chief dies and is avenged by his successor, Gotai, our hero. he goes on a rampage and slaughters the fake isabel's general and all of his followers. Gotai meets a dark sorcerer (guess who ) and decides to not kill him. They both team up with zejhir from the original homm (thank god, someone who acts like a normal man) and then... I didn't continue the game, from there on... I'll get to it one day...

anyway, ToTE was pretty good with a lot of new creatures, a new race and a rather good campaign (although, I didn't finish it). Though, this was the game which made me say it outright: How the hell is anyone still alive and kicking in Ashan?

that was a rather shoddy rant on all three games. thank you for your attention, it certainly persisted longer than mine
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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted October 29, 2008 11:17 PM

Pretensious?
Geeez, don't even try to tell me they invented the story right on and didn't have any problems to fill it XD It is just to stupid and to schematic to be not pretensios (for me)

And about our (beloved ) Nicolai...
Frankie's monster was UGLY and was even more stupid (unbelievable O.O) tan Arthas and Nicolai...
And look at this:
Arthas- blonde XD, Big Armor, Great Pala
Nicolai- blonde , Big Armor, Great Pala

After change:
Arthas- quite mindelss minion of Lich King
Nicolai- mindless minion of Markal

Now:
Lich King- Master of the all Unded
Markal (look at the special)- Lord of Undead XD

That is just pure copy
And about stupid minions from the grave- Frankie wasn't first at all...
First were the Slavian and German myths about female necromancer- Baba Jaga, demons, spirits and warriors
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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted October 29, 2008 11:28 PM

well, those can be quite superficial...

Look,
(Okay, I had Mary Shelley's frankenstein in mind) that story was about raising a loved one at any price. The moment you succeeded at that, you realise the loved one isn't the same and you pretty much failed. The concept of Arthas is entirely different (If you would please ignore the physical differences).

Arthas was corrupted by power and sought revenge.

Nicolai was indeed a dummy by Markal (I can see that the lich king can be compared to Arthas), but Arthas chose it himself and killed everything he loved. Nicolai defended his empire until his death and was corrupted by (his) love. Arthas wasn't deceived or fooled, Isabel was. In the fine detailing they may look alike, but I honestly doubt whether they based Nicolai on Arthas. (I can hear all the wow fanboys crying, but I don't listen to them, because they will eventually conclude that warhammer is based on wow or some **** like that)
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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted October 30, 2008 03:46 PM

Ok, Ok, if the story of those two is compared- then u are right...
But I am talking about characterogical- appearance changes...
To make up a stupid story- isn't a really big deal XD
To invent something new- is

So- to rach compromise- his appearance was based on Arthas and his story on Friankie XD
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted October 30, 2008 06:36 PM

For the record it is hinted that Arthas was under the influence of the sword and therefore Lich King, however he had shown signs that he is getting corrupted before he got to that point. It's a huge contrast to his initial character - at least what he showed - however it could be that his experiences before that part eventually changed him.
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Being human is a roller coaster ride of emotions during rainstorms and sunshine, sprinkled with moments when you can almost reach the stars.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 30, 2008 07:32 PM
Edited by xerox at 19:39, 30 Oct 2008.

SUPRISE SUPRISE - Xerox, Harbinger of Warcraft, comes to join the discussion!


Its obvious that Nicolai is based on Arthas. They even look similar -.-

So lets compare:


ARTHAS
A human prince with blond hair, blue eyes and long hair. The Undead Scourge suprisingly invades, (okey, they didnt really invade like the demons of Ashan - the Scourge is a lot smarter then that and the preparations took years but in the end, everything the Lich King wanted and predicted happened)

After defending his homeland as best as he could, Arthas fell (and became emo arthas - aka a death knight) to one powerful undead leaders grasp.
Arthas gains new scary armor with skulls on.

Arthas betrays almost everyone he knows.

In the end Arthas fuses together with Ner'zhuls spirit, becomming one single perfect combination.
The new Lich King would be a living god.


NICOLAI
A human prince with blond hair, blue eyes and long hair. The Demons suprisingly invades.

After defeding his homeland as best as he could, Nicolai fell to one powerful undead leaders grasp.
Nicolai gains new scary armor with skulls on.

Nicolai betrays almost everyone he knows.

In the end Nicolai is slain by a poet.


I call that similar and it also proves that Arthas is way more badass then Nicolai (although I did never really like either undead or living Arthas - I like the snow King!)
"Frostmourne Hungers..."



Now time to correct your wrong warcraft lore.
--------------------


Arthas was corrupted by power and sought revenge.

Quote:
Arthas chose it himself and killed everything he loved.


No, he didnt. Arthas could never choose. He did what was best for his homeland. He didnt want to be the Lich Kings boytoy.

Quote:
Arthas wasn't deceived or fooled


Yes he was. Mal'ganis even bullied him so that Arthas would come to Northrend and pick up Frostmourne (which was a trap itself).

And Warcraft 1 was based on Warhammer orginally, but it was changed. I see nothing that is similar between WC and War except green orcs and the name. (you know, that if you mix Starcraft and Warcraft it becomes Starwarscraft xD ).

Quote:
is getting corrupted before he got to that point.


Again, Arthas just did what was best for his homeland. How could he know? For example, if Stratholme had not been purged then the Scourge numbers would increase dramatically and the people would not be able to rest in peace (okey, they didnt when Arthas killed them either - but it was better to purge the city then just watch them turn into mindless scourge).

However I do agreed that Arthas was a little it to addicted for revenge...
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted October 30, 2008 07:41 PM
Edited by Lexxan at 19:44, 30 Oct 2008.

Quote:
In the end Nicolai is slain by a poet.

Not much of a Surprise, as the pen is mightier than the sword
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 30, 2008 07:43 PM

Lol ^^
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted October 30, 2008 08:23 PM
Edited by Lesij at 20:23, 30 Oct 2008.

Agreed with Xerox
He said clearly everything what I didn't manage to mumble XD
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razor5
razor5


Famous Hero
Freezing...
posted October 30, 2008 09:06 PM

Quote:
Its obvious that Nicolai is based on Arthas. They even look similar -.-


So that Arthas is a Warcraft hero?

that explains why you post here...

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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted October 30, 2008 09:07 PM

Okay, I'll listen to one WoW-fanboy


Quote:
ARTHAS
A human prince with blond hair, blue eyes and long hair.


Quote:
NICOLAI
A human prince with blond hair, blue eyes and long hair. The Demons suprisingly invades.

Pretty much like every prince in medieval fantasy.

Quote:
The Undead Scourge suprisingly invades, (okey, they didnt really invade like the demons of Ashan - the Scourge is a lot smarter then that and the preparations took years but in the end, everything the Lich King wanted and predicted happened)
i suppose you compare this to Nicolai's predicament? Let's see...



Quote:
After defending his homeland as best as he could, Arthas fell (and became emo arthas - aka a death knight) to one powerful undead leaders grasp.
Arthas gains new scary armor with skulls on.



Quote:
After defeding his homeland as best as he could, Nicolai fell to one powerful undead leaders grasp.
Nicolai gains new scary armor with skulls on.
Again, aesthetic appeal. If you want to say that a dark knight who has forsaken his vows for someone is invented by Warcraft... Then I think you're wrong... (The black knight in king Arthur comes to mind)

Quote:
Arthas betrays almost everyone he knows.


Quote:
Nicolai betrays almost everyone he knows.


Arthas had a choice to begin with. You say that is wrong, but I ghonestly think he was power-hungry and revenge-seeking.

Quote:
In the end Arthas fuses together with Ner'zhuls spirit, becomming one single perfect combination.
The new Lich King would be a living god.


Quote:
In the end Nicolai is slain by a poet.


You conclusion?

Quote:
I call that similar


Quote:
and it also proves that Arthas is way more badass then Nicolai (although I did never really like either undead or living Arthas - I like the ***** King!)
"Frostmourne Hungers..."
Well, yeah, a bastard who slaughtered entire tribes is cooler than a puppet.



Quote:
Now time to correct your wrong warcraft lore.
Are you getting me on fine detailing?


Quote:
Arthas was corrupted by power and sought revenge.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arthas chose it himself and killed everything he loved.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No, he didnt. Arthas could never choose. He did what was best for his homeland. He didnt want to be the Lich Kings boytoy.


He picked up the runeblade all by himself, that's called choice. He litterally sold his soul by his own choice, even after Muradin warned him that it's cursed. He had ample opportunity to give up (medivh asked, a rescue mission came with orders to retreat and even at the final moments, Muradin said it was possible to leave this all be)


Quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arthas wasn't deceived or fooled
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yes he was. Mal'ganis even bullied him so that Arthas would come to Northrend and pick up Frostmourne (which was a trap itself).

And Warcraft 1 was based on Warhammer orginally, but it was changed. I see nothing that is similar between WC and War except green orcs and the name. (you know, that if you mix Starcraft and Warcraft it becomes Starwarscraft xD ).


I'll just reply to your first message here. Mal'Ganis lured him, but he was warned several times it was a trap.

Quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is getting corrupted before he got to that point.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Again, Arthas just did what was best for his homeland. How could he know? For example, if Stratholme had not been purged then the Scourge numbers would increase dramatically and the people would not be able to rest in peace (okey, they didnt when Arthas killed them either - but it was better to purge the city then just watch them turn into mindless scourge).

However I do agreed that Arthas was a little it to addicted for revenge...
I don't see your point, I'm sorry
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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 30, 2008 09:36 PM
Edited by xerox at 21:37, 30 Oct 2008.

Im a Blizzard fanboy (except Diablo) but that included WoW too.

I have never read the King Arthur stuff but Nicolais armor had skulls all over it - just like emo Arthas!

What choice did Arthas have? When?
When he picked up Frostmourne? Muradin didnt die anyway (he is alive in the next WotLK expansion but doest remember his past and is now the king of the frost dwarves).
Like I said, Arthas never knew that Frostmourne would corrupt him - he just saw it as a great weapon against the Scourge (ironiclly, it was vice versa).



I just compared that Arthas is a lot cooler then Nicolai who was killed by a poet


Quote:
Are you getting me on fine detailing?



It was a 50% (or more) joke



Arthas had no idea what the blade did, just that Muradin said it was cursed. Arthas said he could take on every curse in order to save his people, but it was not like he knew that the curse was about destroying his people or something.

Arthas didnt know it was Medivh. Would you listen to a man with a crazy bird suit?


Quote:
I'll just reply to your first message here. Mal'Ganis lured him, but he was warned several times it was a trap.


When? I dont remember anyone saying ITS A TRAP!




____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted October 30, 2008 09:56 PM

Jaina said it sounded like a trap.

I don't remember skulls on Nicolai's armor, but if there were, you are right then about design.

A choice? Arthas could've left the undead in Northrend... It was like this:

Arthas: Hahaha, I beat you
Mal'Ganis: Damnit! I mean... No, I got like this HUGE army in Northrend and answers about stuff in Northrend.
Arthas: You mean like that place full of ice and where noone lives?
Mal'Ganis: uhhhh... Yes?
Arthas: I see... Why don't I just kill you here?
Mal'ganis: Too late, cya in Northrend, muahahaha!
Arthas: Damnit! I MUST HAVE MY REVENGE!!!
Jaina: Arthas, even I can see it's a trap.
Arthas: Must kill...

(sorry, about the satire, it just sounds funny)
Why couldn't Arthas let Mal'Ganis rot in Northrend? That's the moment where he still has choice. And there were to moments he could've picked up and fled. (the emissary + Muradin did say he could leave :

Muradin:"leave it be Arthas. Let's forget about this and lead your men home."
Arthas: "Damn the men!")
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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted October 30, 2008 10:15 PM
Edited by Lesij at 22:16, 30 Oct 2008.

Excuuuseee me...
Let me interrupt u a bit
Not all medieval-based fantasy princes/kings/dukes/watermelons are athletic blondes WITH SQUARY faces (compare their jaws watching intro movie of HOMM and for example the one with already emo Arthas- when he murders his father)...
What can u say about Aragorn for example? Less muscular, doesn't wear any heavy piece of armour at all, deosn't have fair hair...

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 30, 2008 10:56 PM





Quote:
A choice? Arthas could've left the undead in Northrend... It was like this:


Why would he? He ventured to Northrend to destroy the Scourge and get his revenge. Arthas thought Mal'ganis was the leader of the Scourge (which was a bit true, the Dreadlords had the most control of the Scourge in the begining of Wc3).

Plus there are lots of people living in Northrend
Like winter furbolgs, taunka, vrykul, valkyries, giants, the dragons have their captial there etc...


Jaina said it sounded like a trap and you know... Jaina and Arthas was in love in the past but split. Maybe Arthas was angry at Jaina and didnt listen at her
No but seriously, she said it sounded like a trap but Arthas took that risk to save his people.


The Emissary told that Uther had recalled all troops back to Lordaeon, he didnt say it was a tarp either.

And I understand the "Damn the Men" quote.
Imagine that you had travelled for several weeks and done months of work and then suddenly - when you are about to complete your long mission - your old mentor cancels the whole mission!




Arthas did what he thought was the best for his people.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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Darkavatar
Darkavatar


Adventuring Hero
Overlord Divine
posted October 31, 2008 09:55 AM

To conclude this. We all know that Nicolai is based on Arthas, but Nicolai isnīt an exact copy of him. Nicolai thinked little different and became undead on a different way, but the main principles are the same.
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What is it exactly we have created. It is "New World Order".

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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted October 31, 2008 02:45 PM

Erm...
There is no conclusion. Still one of the sides shows that Nicolai ISN'T based on Arthas and the others do
Who are u to solve the problem?
An arbirator?
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Darkavatar
Darkavatar


Adventuring Hero
Overlord Divine
posted October 31, 2008 03:40 PM

Quote:
Who are u to solve the problem?
An arbirator?  


Well, I am Darkavatar, an HC member. I wanted only to be a part of this discussion.
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What is it exactly we have created. It is "New World Order".

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Guarder
Guarder


Supreme Hero
posted October 31, 2008 04:35 PM

About the Arthas/Nicolai thing, i think it's weird that nobody has mentioned Nicolai/Nicolas Gryphonheart.
Nicolai when he dies: "I can feel some demon magic...Poison." something like that. Old king Gryphonheart was killed by poison. Both where monarches killed by poison, and then resseructed by the leader(?) of the necromancers (Markal and Finneas Vilmar).
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