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| Thread: Vision of Future Towns | |
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted October 30, 2008 11:46 PM |
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Vision of Future Towns
The scenery & music of the towns are something I've always enjoyed seeing in each new Heroes game that comes out, since that sets up the mood and unique setting of each faction. Although Heroes 5 has some very beautiful town settings, it bothers me how even if a Fortress town is in the middle of the desert, it still shows an arctic/mountainous region within the town. So I thought, 'Why not a unique background and setting with each landscape?' This doesn't have to effect just the background, but the town itself can be different as well since a town in the desert will obviously be constructed differently than a town in the arctic, and so on. Here are some ideas:
Plains:
Haven: Same as usual.
Academy: Plains can be seen below, and the architecture has a greenish tone. Also, the town is more rich in vegetation.
Fortress: The town is built as a giant mine going down into the plains.
Sylvan: The town has a more rugged look as it is built in the middle of the hot safari. Flutes can be heard playing in the background.
Stronghold: The town is built on the plains and tepees are used more often.
Dungeon: The cave structure is grayish and water is dripping from the ceiling throughout the town.
Inferno: Plains background with a gray stone structure.
Necromancer: Built in a plains setting that is suffering from a serious drought. The grass is brown and ox bones are strewn about the town. The town has a grayish stone structure.
Jungle:
Haven: The town is built in a clearing surrounded by a lush jungle. The stonework is a light-gray color and the houses are built out of wood rather than plaster.
Academy: The town is floating overtop of a jungle. Palm trees are strewn about the town and mist is floating up around the town due to the moisture.
Fortress: The town is built within the hollow of a tropical mountain. Forges burn throughout the town and the stonework is a light gray in color.
Sylvan: The town is built within the thickness of the rainforest alongside a broad river. The wood is darker than usual.
Stronghold: The town is built in a massive clearing surrounded by jungle. Straw huts are used for houses, and the town is covered in a thick mist.
Dungeon: The cave structure is a light gray and a thick mist moves throughout the caverns. The squalling of monkey's can occasionally be heard from above.
Inferno: Jungle background with a light gray stone structure. The fires of the town are bright blue at the tips.
Necromancer: Shrunken heads are impaled on spears throughout the town. A sickly green mist floats about the town and the jungle is ominously silent.
Desert:
Haven: The town is built out of solid sandstone and the sun is shining down painfully bright on the scene.
Academy: The town is built over top of a searing desert. There is no vegetation in the town and it is built out of a brown sandstone with multi-colored roofs throughout the town buildings.
Fortress: The town is surrounded by hot desert with beds of bubbling quicksand around the town. It is built of sandstone and the walls of the town are extra high to block out the blowing of sand.
Stronghold: The town is built along an oasis that is surrounded by the desert. Open-walled pavilions are used as houses
Dungeon: The walls are made out of solid sandstone and sand is seen drifting down from the cracks of the ceiling from time to time.
Inferno: Desert setting. The stone is made out of sandstone and the fires are white instead of orange.
Necropolis: The earth is scorched red and cracked from a total lack of moisture. Vultures fly throughout the town, especially around the zombie crypt.
Arctic:
Haven: The town is built of thick gray stone with muddy streets and thatched, straw covered homes.
Academy: The town is built over top of an arctic mountain, with winds blasting about. Pine trees are planted throughout the town that is built of solid gray stone. Each platform is covered with a magical glass dome to keep out the wind and the cold.
Fortress: Same as usual.
Sylvan: The town is built in the thickness of a pine forest. The wooden structures are made out of dark pine and silver lights are strewn throughout the town.
Stronghold: The town is built on a snow-covered plain at the base of a high mountain. Igloos and snow-covered tents are erected throughout the town, and there are several large bonfires.
Dungeon: The town is built within the tunnels of a mountain. The howling of the wind from outside echoes throughout the town, and several fires are built throughout the town.
Inferno: A thick blizzard of snow is falling down on the town, which sizzles and sputters with the fire as it falls, creating a haze of steam throughout the town.
Necropolis: The spires of the town are covered in ice and frozen warriors are seen throughout the town. It is still as death.
The rest of you can do descriptions for the remaining terrains if you feel so inspired!
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 30, 2008 11:59 PM |
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Nice  I've had the same idea, though I've never put it together in such a good way.
So what's left? Volcanic and Swamp right?
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted October 31, 2008 12:06 AM |
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Quote:
Nice I've had the same idea, though I've never put it together in such a good way.
So what's left? Volcanic and Swamp right?
As well as roughland & subterranean. That totals up to 8 terrain types if I'm not mistaken.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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yann
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2008 12:20 AM |
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Fantastic idea, this would work brilliantly.
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted October 31, 2008 12:29 AM |
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That indeed would be great.
Kind of HoMM4 cities reloaded.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted October 31, 2008 07:34 AM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 07:39, 31 Oct 2008.
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I also had that idea, allthough I went a bit further, also letting that effect gameplay, like building costs and so...but like Adrius, I never managed to clarify this idea.
If I may, I'd like to write the Swamp or Volcanic backgrounds...just I have to go to work now, I'll do it later on^^
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 31, 2008 09:31 AM |
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This was already in HoMM4. It was one of the few things I really liked.
I think it would be to much work for nival/ubisoft to make so many unique towns - I just think the terrain should change.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted October 31, 2008 02:20 PM |
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Swamp:
Haven: The town is built on a set of Islands surrounded by swamp waters, several wooden paths lead to the town and connect the islands. The few stonework buildigns are made of dark grey bricks, but many buildings are made out of wood.
Academy: The town is floating overtop of a swamp lake. It is made of dark brown adn gray stone, together with soem other colors here and there. The light in the town seems rather odd and only a few swamp trees and bushes grow here and there.
Fortress: The town is built into a rather flat Hill in the swamp. Many mine shafts go down, and out of some, green gasses seem to soar. The Buildings are made out of clay and dark grey bricks.
Sylvan: The town is built in a misty swamp-forest, where most of the trees grow directly out of the giant swamp lake the city is set in. The wood is rather dark and farns cover the ground as well as moss covers the trees.
Stronghold: The town is built on a large, rather dry area surrounded by a tricky swamp. Shabby Wooden Huts are used for houses, and high swamp grass covers most of the ground, not revealing where the groudn is solid and where not. Sometimes, Bird cries shatter the silence of the swamp.
Dungeon: The cave structure is rather dark and dark green moss covers many of the cavern walls, while muddy water drips and dabbles from above and from thr sides into dark, dirty pools, which is the most striking sound.
Inferno: Swamp background with a dark gray stone and clay brick structure. The fires of the town burn very high and rather yellow due to the swamp gasses.
Necromancer: The town lies in the swamp like a silent graveyard, many of the buildings half-sunk in puddles of mud, moss growing over most of the dark gray buildings. Sometimes or other, Ravens croaks throatily sound through the air.
...somehow liek that I imagine the swamp towns...
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted October 31, 2008 02:43 PM |
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Quote:
I think it would be to much work for nival/ubisoft to make so many unique towns - I just think the terrain should change.
Actually, that could be done if they got a shared texture and a few meshes to swap.
The town would still look somewhat alike, but the key parts like terrain around it and the land texture would look completely different.
This is from the game TES: III, the rock one is from the vanilla game. But wooden one is a mod, it replaces the texture with a wood one. It could be done better, but this is more than possible to do someting similar in Heroes VI to match the terrain.
For snow, alterativ mesh addon? Should not consume that many polys is properly done.
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jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted December 07, 2008 12:39 PM |
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Edited by jiriki9 at 12:40, 07 Dec 2008.
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Well, re-found this thread when reading through the altar for the "awards"^^ and thought Why not go on? - I allways liked it
Volcanic:
Haven: The town is built of grey-red and black stone, all buildings are built extremely stabile and have solid stone or tiled roofs.
Academy: The town floats atop an inactive volcano. Its made of dark, reddish stone, and the few trees growing here and there are stark and thorny.
Fortress: The town is built into the mountainside of a steaming volcano and the buildings seen are made of the red/black volcano stone. Several Protection walls agaisnt the Lava are built above the town and their is more steam than usual.
Sylvan: The town stands in the middle of a small primeval forest surrounded by dead earth and volcanos. The trees are primeval palms, giant ferns and horsetails. many trees at the forest's borders look dead.
Stronghold: Th town is built on the drought, stark volcanic lands. Many Huts made of black wood are used, but also some tipis.
Dungeon: The colour of the stoen is black, and aroudn the town a gigantic lava-stream is floating. THe scenery is so coloured in read whcih makes the town look rather firy, allthough no fires are used at the buildings here.
Inferno: The normal Inferno town as we know and love it.
Necropolis: The (half-ruined) town' ancient-looking black buildings are covered with thick ashes and dust. A diostant growling is to be heard.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted December 07, 2008 02:43 PM |
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In a way I agree, but in another, I disagree.
You have to take into consideration the HoMM map shouldn't be the actual world, it's a map layout in a way. A town on the adventure map merely marks the location of a town, and even though there is a green tree on the square right next to it, it's hard to tell just how much space there is between that tree and the town region in the world itself.
That's one thing I think H5 did bad: They made trees and such the size of the hero avatar.... Which makes sense if it were an RPG, but this is not. The hero represents an army, it's not an individual on a horse.
Your suggestion itself is nice though But take into consideration this problem only occurs on multiplayer maps where there are random towns.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 10, 2008 09:52 AM |
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I never got around to posting this, but my primary thought was that we need to establish the native setting for each faction, i.e. something like:
HAVEN - Grassland (lush grass, fields, farms, etc.)
SYLVAN - ?
INFERNO - Lava
NECROPOLIS - Wasteland (dead trees, dust, etc.)
ACADEMY - Desert
DUNGEON - Cave / Underground?
FORTRESS - Snow
STRONGHOLD - Plains (steppe, dry grass, etc.)
'SANCTUARY' - Swamp
+ possibly others.
Notice that while Swamp is a valid setting, Jungle is not, because Jungle in terms of the game mechanics would be unpassable and hence could not form a setting on which the town is placed.
We seem to face the usual problem, that there are no obvious choices for different native settings for Haven and Sylvan - one option would be to divide Grassland into Cultivated Grassland (i.e. Fields) and Natural Grassland (i.e. Meadows) for Haven and Sylvan respectively. Doesn't seem like a perfect solution, though, so I'm open for suggestions.
Once we have the "natural" grounds established, we can start creating looks for the other factions in their foreign settings.
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What will happen now?
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted December 10, 2008 12:34 PM |
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Edited by Snatch at 12:37, 10 Dec 2008.
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Sylvan is set mostly in forests and woods. I've not seen much grass there. So instead of grassland maybe something like earth would fit maybe. That would be a more nature-like Sylvan instead of fairytale-like.
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broadstrong
Promising
Known Hero
Level 20 Vassal of Light
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posted December 10, 2008 02:23 PM |
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For Sylvan, meadows would be a good choice, or possibly some sparse forest grassland.
Swamp can be the native terrain for some beast or lizardlike faction which includes basilisks, mighty gorgons, dragonflies and the like.
Then what about the "naga" faction? Allow me to introduce a new terrain:- rough/rocks/stone/granite and such, with the same pathfinding penalty as for lava, dirt and subterranean.
I chose such a terrain because I feel it is closer to an Oriental theme, which the naga faction is supposed to be, and it seems like it is the remaining natural terrain that exists and is not represented in H5 (H5 is fantasy game, but still...).
Of course, ppl you may feel free to suggest other terrain that is more Oriental-like.
____________
The queer part of the Carcity/Broadstrong/Zamfir[
/b] threeway, equipped with sailing, summon allies, spatial travel and supermover.
Many current projects on hand.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted December 10, 2008 04:49 PM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 15:21, 02 May 2009.
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Quote:
We seem to face the usual problem, that there are no obvious choices for different native settings for Haven and Sylvan - one option would be to divide Grassland into Cultivated Grassland (i.e. Fields) and Natural Grassland (i.e. Meadows) for Haven and Sylvan respectively. Doesn't seem like a perfect solution, though, so I'm open for suggestions.
I once had a idea to solve this (when i was working on a crazy, mostly overthron concept^^) by seperating the type of terrain by some "stats" (or however you'd call it):
1. The ground - self-describing, I guess.
The typical groudn-types would be:
-grass
-desert
-snow
-swamp
-rough-/badland
-plains/steppe
-lava/volcano
-maybe earth
-seashore (light saltwater)
-ocean (deep saltwater)
-lakeshore (light freshwater)
-lake (deep freshwater)
2. The Shape - this stat describes the shape of the land.
-flatland
-hills
-mountains
-maybe highlands, hollow and valley
-tunnels(is the only shape for the underground)
3. The growth (or however one could call it) - how many plants grow and animals (like birds, etc.) live their
-empty
-normal
-wood/light forest
-(deep) forest
4. The special conditions - these are optional and can sometimes be ombined. This would be things like:
-cursed land
-magical field
-mystical mist
-sacred ground
-dangerous tides
-burning fields
-etc.
Now the stats can be combined and we get things like:
-normal grass-flatlands (the grassland as its for haven)
-deep forested grass-hills (an option for Slyvan starting terrain, but of course flatlands could lso be used here)
And in those combined home-terrains, we could set the factions:
-normal-grass-flatlands for haven
-deep forest-grass/earth-hills/flatlands for sylvan
-empty/normal-desert-hills/flatlands for academy
-empty/normal-lava-tunnels/mountains/hills for inferno
-light forest/normal-swamp-flatlands for necropolis
-normal/empty-underground-tunnels for dungeon
-normal-snow/earth-mountains for fortress
-normal/light forest-plains/badland-flatlands for stronghold
As I see it, there would stil be small bonuses if only one or to of the "homey"-stats fit (for example when an Elven army crosses a deep forest in a snow-mountain terrain), but the full bonus you could only get on the exact terrain.
..I know it's (again^^) rather complicated but it would bring kinda variety into the game...IMO
EDIT: I just wanted to revive the thread and the discussion here...I'd also liek comments about my concept, but sicne I will present it with othe rsystems in another thread, that's not the main purpose for this edit^^
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted March 06, 2010 03:01 AM |
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Please forgive the Necroposting.
Subterranean:
Haven: Very dark stone rules this surprisingly well lit city. It is effectively the Haven at night, and is lit well with the many crystals inherent to the subterranean world.
Academy: The city is effectively built into the sides of the mountain, as opposed to floating, with the exception of the main part of the castle, which is still suspended in the nothing. The stone is dark, but many of the paths are augmented by glowing blue crystals.
Fortress: This fortress will strongly resemble the Inferno's generic form, but obviously with Fortress accouterments. The crystals would also glow blue, except a few orange ones.
Sylvan: This would be the most difficult on the animators, as it needs a whole new model: The roots of a great tree. The central root would stretch all the way down further into the earth than the depths of the city, and many buildings would be built upon it, the rest would be nestled into roots that hang down only half way into the cavern. Multitudinous colorful crystals would cover the walls and anywhere else, and a great lake would be at the base of the tree.
Stronghold: The great central tent, lit by internal fires, would be surrounded by various other (unnecessary) tents and enclosures for the animals. The stones would be orange.
Dungeon: The look is just fine as is.
Inferno: The normal Inferno town, perhaps with some sinister black crystals.
Necropolis: This would be fun. Great green crystals would lend a sinister glow to the whole affair, and there would be bones poking out of the cavern walls, perhaps even coffins, as tho the whole thing was built beneath a cemetery. The stone walls would be well polished.
How this can all be done
This is a simple process for many things. With a few exceptions, many of these buildings would be very simmilar, just with different textures and occasional acoutrements. This is easily achieved in two ways: One, every building in the town menu would have two parts: The bit we already see, and the same thing push outwards from the center of the individual building by a smidge, which would be invisible. This is where snow, vines, dripping...things, or other parts would go. Underneath, the textures would be mutable. Internal processes would give the textures two properties: Color Range and Saturation. Each texture would have a different color range (eg, for the Sylvan Wood, from greenish wood to sandy brown wood) and saturation, or how much color/grey there is. In defining the properties of the town look, this would boil down to two properties that could be defined in the map editor as well. This plus lighting could easily give very different looks for all the towns.
The Academy: For anything that sways or swings in the Academy, it would be a programming process, where the object sways a number of degrees over the course of 10 or so seconds. For instance, in the Artic terrain it would sway almost 30 degrees in the ten seconds due to the wind strength, whereas underground with less wind it would only sway 5 at most.
Trees: In order to determine whether bonuses go to Haven or Sylvan, or whether a town has the forest settings applied to it or the plains, it would do a quick survey to see how many tiles around it (out of, say, a 12x12 square) are registered to be a tree. (Sylvan would count towards this, Haven and Stronghold would count as plain) if the number is less than 40%, it would be the plains town setting, if there are more trees then it will be regarded as forest and look thus.
These things should be available to edit in the mapmaker, as creating certain looks for a city might have interesting story ramifications.
____________
How exactly is luck a skill?
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted March 24, 2010 06:12 PM |
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Quote:
These things should be available to edit in the mapmaker, as creating certain looks for a city might have interesting story ramifications.
This brigns me (back) to another cool, unrealistic idea. (I put it here because it's also a "Vision of Future Towns" If blizzard or anyone don't like it, I'll open a new thread to fill the Altar with more unfinished ideas  In all of HoMM the town development is really static. Each building has a certain place were it will be built, looks the same, etc. Also, there ism except of name and buildable/built buildings, not really a big difference between to towns of the same faction usually, both from look as from gameplay (okay, I suppose from is wrong wor here, don't know which would be right^^)
...what about this now:
1. It shall not be determined how the city will look in the end, the player can decide were the buildings shall be and how they look. It goes like this - for Reasons of simplicity I'll reduce towns to squares now:
O means an Open town Square, X means a square occupied by terrain and the borders of the town, B means a building, R means the square is reserved (meaningly for bigger buildings)
In the beginning, we have a town with lowest town level still and no building but the Village Hall:
XXXXXXXXX
XOORRRROX
XOORBBROX
XOORBBROX
XOORRRROX
XOOOOOOOX
XXXXXXXXX
As you can see, The village Hall itself takes 2x2 squares, but occupies more (because City Hall and Capitol are bigger).
WHen you want to build a new building, you have to place it on the city map. You have to make sure that, if you want to upgrade the building sometimes, you place it so that it has the place for it. So let's say, a bit later we have built a TAvern (1x1), Tier1 Dwelling (1x2) and Marketplace (1x2) and reached town level 4 now:
XXXXXXXXX
XBBRRRROX
XOORBBROX
XOORBBROX
XBORRRROX
XBOOOOOBX
XXXXXXXXX
The town is all ready pretty filled, we see, buuuut the solution is simple. With rising town level, the space is increased. So the Town would now probably look like this (inserted some terrain obstacles now):
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XOOOOOOOOOOOX
XOOXXOOOOOOOX
XOOBBRRRRXOOX
XOOOORBBROOOX
XOOOORBBROOOX
XOOBORRRROOOX
XOOBOOOOOBOOX
XOOOOOOOOOOOX
XOOXXOOOOOOOX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Just as example. You see, it can work, and it could also with slightly more complicated pseudo-3d-towns like in H5. As a note: it will mainly be the space in which you can build which will bne widened, not the whole town screen. So, the great point here is, you can design your town as you wish, and have to plan a bit, also, so that you'll have place for later, bigger Buildings. IN such a way, a raze option would probably be useful. The whole thing could be made even more tasty by making city battle more realistic - The Invader sieging only the Inner City/Fort/Citadel/Castle, and the battlefield before it being the city as you built it. They could also add the realism here, finally, that buildings can be destroyed by catapult here, as well as nice feats (Secret passages ending in your buildings, letting your units come out behind the enemy lines, "Sacrify"-buildings, with gunpowder inside, whcih you can make explode, a mob of citizen coming out to defend their buildings (In form of peasants, halflings, goblins, Defenders, etc. depending on the faction). Hah, I allways wanted a more complex battlefields and especially siege battles XD
so now to
2. As I mentioned before, the LOOK of the BUILDINGS could also be made customizable, so you get a basic set for your faction, some must-haves for soem buildings, the SIZE (1x2 or whatever. THIs is IMPORTANT in this system!) and are otherwise rather free. Your tavern in black color? No problem, as well as varying the sign of it . Chimneys, walls, everything could be created. Of course there would eb presets for players who do not enjoy doing such things.
3. I am highly for town specials! So a town will have a special that seperates them from the others, only VERY SMALL benefits! For example:
~+1 of the cities valuable ressource
~all buildings cost 1 wood OR 1 ore less (by choice of player)
~Increases growth of Creatures a bit (depending on the Tier and the normal creature growth)
~Information in the Thieves Guild is cheaper
~The defense towers of this town are slightly stronger
Of course every bonus would come with a nice description and name for more flavor
A suggestion for HOMM5 Haven towns:
~"Halfling acres": When attacked in this city, the defending player gets a stack f halflings (Tier 1 shooters) under his command. (Town Level x 0,5/1/2/4 with nothing/Fort/Citadel/Castle)
~"City of Bowmen": Increases weakly growth of bowmen and upgrades by +2
~"Breadbasket of the Region": Increases weakly growth of peasants by +4
~"The Unconcuered": When defending this city, the defenders' moral is increased by 2.
~"City of Builders": all buildings cost 1 wood OR 1 ore less (by choice of player)
~"Merchants Haven": ~+1 gem per day.
~"Port Royal": (Only for a town with connection to water) Ships cost 2 wood and 100 gold less.
~"Sacred Fields": Angels and their upgrades cost 350 gold less.
~"Elrath's Sanctum": Priests and their upgrades cost 100 gold less.
Special bonuses, meant for Campaigns:
~"Knight Acadamy": When you build barracks, they are automatically garrison, but they cost 3800 gold, 10 wood and 15 ore. (so they are more expensive, but automatically upgraded AND you save a good lot of money)
~"Home of Marksmen": When a heroe visits this town, he may learn the special "Atttack"-perk: "Bowmen Training". With this perk, all his/her bowmen (and the upgrades) will gain "ranged retaliation" ability.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 12, 2010 12:02 AM |
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There's a good opportunity for some procedural building generation, where the developers specify some sort of style (i.e. how the generation algorithms are to work), and each town grows differently to the next, whilst maintaining a theme for the faction.
My only worry with this sort of thing though is that the aesthetic beauty of the towns might be compromised. Not sure if today's `computational creativity` stuff is quite up to the job. The same applies to laying out buildings in a grid I guess.
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