|
| Thread: ----------------> STATS vs. ARMY <---------------------------- |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
posted December 11, 2001 12:54 PM |
|
|
Luck, luck, luck...
Lose the luck tag and call it diversity. Luck to me is an added bonus that is not expected. One person will always have luck in this game, it is expected. Luck can be drawing Crag on an open map or getting 4 conservatories and 2 utopias in your area on a random. Its gonna happen, its not unexpected, so dont call it luck, call it diversity.
Oh...and stop snowing about bad luck .... Oops sorry, bad diversity 
____________
Myctteakyshd
|
|
Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
|
|
posted December 11, 2001 04:55 PM |
|
|
How to counter this ?? Suggestions?
Hmm dont get me wrong. I like the idea of relic maps. In some cases relics are needed to counter some aspects of game. But it appears there is no way to counter double stats except hit and run. That was my whole point to this thread is that double creatures should balance out and somewhat equal double stats. But as I have found it doesnt. Is there any other way to counter it, (besides hit and run. )
I would like to hear some different senerios on ways to counter this.
____________
|
|
Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
|
|
posted December 11, 2001 05:09 PM |
|
|
another reason
for not snowing about h/r huh cus u might get in similar case and ur 700 imp might come in usefull 
|
|
Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
|
|
posted December 11, 2001 06:30 PM |
|
|
HUH. I have no clue what you just said?
____________
|
|
andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
|
|
posted December 11, 2001 06:40 PM |
|
|
luck is ok, in fact luck is the reason why this games is still so interesting, but i dont agree with mad uni that maps with all stuff on them balance out in the end.
i had like 30 games on hg, mostly for BBOAT, and in 20 of them there was no fight at all at the end coz 1 side was totally superior, you call that outbalanced? i dont
|
|
bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
|
|
posted December 11, 2001 06:53 PM |
|
|
You can counter it with berserk
2 things: First. Double stats are far superior to double army, becayse there are 4 dimensions to stats. Double stats, in the presence of implosion, ressurection and other power spells (making magic stats count), could probably be countered by 2*2*2*2=16 times the creatures. Claiming that 2 times the creatures should outbalance 2 times the stats is like saying 50 elephants can kill 2 F16īs because they weigh the same amount.
Now, there are not many ways to counter a certain defeat, but one way is to use the giants strength against himself. There is basically only one way to do this in Homm3 and that is Berserk. Get expert fire magic, get berserk, and you have alot better chance.
I did this once in a fest game where my 114 black dragons, 50 ABs, 50 angels 80 golds and 23 AAs faced an army that was 150% of its size. Using berserk on his main forces (150 AAs and 160 ABs) I hurt them and placed them together, then I totally destroyed them first turn with my blacks and golds (both got morale and 2 hex attack succeded).
Needless to say, my opponent who thought he would win was so demoralized my seing his main force devastated so quickly that he conceded right there and then.
To sum it up. Yes you can counter it with berserk.
Quote:
But it appears there is no way to counter double stats except hit and run. That was my whole point to this thread is that double creatures should balance out and somewhat equal double stats. But as I have found it doesnt. Is there any other way to counter it, (besides hit and run. )
I would like to hear some different senerios on ways to counter this.
|
|
Zud
Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
|
posted December 11, 2001 06:57 PM |
|
|
closed map discussion, take another direction
I have had all the above happend and have done it to others.
reflecting on my experience (lenghty, I dont think anyone would disagree) when I first started playin heroes. It was all open maps, I as many, enjoy closed maps these days, but have enjoyed an open map on a blue moon these days.
I think in a closed map scenario as described, you need to get out of your normal mode of map play if at all possible. (hard for me, I still find my biggest shortcoming in this game is that I like to clear everything and not go for the throat) What I mean by this is mebe your opponent sees that you have matching castles, mebe dont build second and jump to middle that much faster catching them off guard. I had a game a month or so ago with bp, he saw I had crag hack, and I forget, I might of had double castle, well he was over on my side visiting week 3 (his only chance really and he whomped me) sure if you let the game flow its course one player usually has a much bigger advantage at the end fight, be it stats, creatures or a combination of the both.
It is threads like this that actually may create more "total tactics" players and why they have always had my respect. sure some of these tactics are ugly and you dont feel great at times (like you stole a game) but if you really think about it. you were wanting to win, were you not? and you were just using the tools available to you in the current setup.
(I wish more people would play diamondhead, try it for an interesting and dare I call it "balanced" game)
____________
Winner or Whiner?
|
|
Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
|
|
posted December 11, 2001 09:41 PM |
|
|
HHHmmmmm Zud, if I knew you was gonna respect me more for using one of those total tactics I would not have offered a reload when I caught your main hero in middle without his army. LOL. As you said it might have been ugly but was prolly my only way to win that game. Hmm so if you think this is acceptable why did you accept? hehe, no matter was still a fun game to fight it out. Games with Zud are always fun.  BUT as I am starting to learn those tactics and ways of taking wins are more acceptable and becoming common practice. And apparently the only way to win some games. So I guess if ya cant beat em join em.
Jinxer
____________
|
|
wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
|
|
posted December 11, 2001 11:14 PM |
|
|
diamondhead ... gotta try that one still.
anyway, I enjoy maps where stats don't mean a DAMN thing, or where getting those stats are DAMN hard.
Such a map that has both these qualities is 7 lakes. 3 good heroes are better than 1 super-hero and 6 dinky scouts. This is because there is so much ground to cover, and multiple paths to everything. So unless your superhero has advanced town portal, you'll need another hero, or an expert on the map (like Mocara) will sneak around the opposite end, take half your towns, while defending all his own ... and then he'll get triple the creature growth than you.
However, all maps have drawbacks. Drawbacks to 7 lakes:
- diplomacy is a bit too powerful for map
- turns most likely require 6 minutes
- if it's a close game, it may be the LONGEST game you've ever played.
heartlands is a map where the ONLY differing factor is starting town and heroes.
as for reduced luck factor, I also enjoy universal commander. There are many others that I can't think of.
oh, and about balancing relics to give +9 to all ...
- HH does NOT equal SoJ!!
I HATE it when maps have quests like this, and I'm stuck with a choice between gladius and SoJ, while opponent has HH and sword of hellfire! ... and RED has HH too damn it! As if red needs more advantage?
- SoJ + Lions does NOT equal HH + Bliss Necklace
why? because the sword and shield slots are FAR more valuable than the head and neck slots!
what are the best head and neck slots? head: crown of dragontooth (relic ... good luck finding it), wizards hat (banned in most maps) neck: necklace of swiftness = best level 1 artifact, pendant of courage = great, but usually can be replaced by all the dinky morale and luck artifacts.
finding a sword and shield is easy on a non-artifact-heavy map. Finding any of those 4 is NOT easy, and even if you DO find them, I'd choose the sword and shield anyday (with HH + CNoB).
____________
- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26)
|
|
Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
|
|
posted December 11, 2001 11:22 PM |
|
|
blarg
yes head and hand most usefull shield/necklace not near as usefull for big stats anyway
and YES hh+cnb = soj+lsc if u want to loose stats for some other "better" art u can do so
only way to ballance things is as i said SET the relics to what u want and DONT include topias especially if u insist on banning artifacts.
well banning gold bag/waterwalkboots/and other crap relics much appreciated or set them somewhere on the map for all players to get 
|
|
jb239
Famous Hero
|
|
posted December 12, 2001 05:41 PM |
|
|
|
well some may disagree, but I still say luck isnt as important as to how you use it. I mean if you get the best artifacts, spells, etc, and play bad against a decent opponent you decrease your chances of an automatic win greatly. sure sometimes you really get lucky and win when u deserve to win, but majority of the games Ive personally played the opponent outplayed me and won due to that, not by luck. (even tho its a habit to sometimes complain you lost to luck when u are mad u lost and coulda won)
|
|
Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
|
|
posted December 12, 2001 08:52 PM |
|
Edited By: Jinxer on 12 Dec 2001
|
hmm I disagree JB. There are some situation that fall into the catagory you are refereing to. There are tons of games I have lost that I should have won just because I played and fought stupid in the final battle. But this thread touches on those times when it comes to the final battle and the stats are that much different, that there is not much you can do no matter if you are expert in battle tactics or not.
When 2000 skels kill 2 Arch Devils and the Archdevils kill 300 skels per hit, there aint much hope outsmarting your opponent. LOL
____________
|
|
yawacko
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted December 13, 2001 01:24 AM |
|
|
well, heres my 2 cents (I'm canadian so in american it only like 1/4 cent or so)
the map you played was giant war, you said he had double stats and your army did very little damage...well I assume he attacked you on your side of the map and to do that on giant war you must fight not 1 but 2 groups of 50+ chaos hydras or ancient behemoths.
since you were necro you were not able to sack artifacts and without that minimum of 50,000 exp points(for fighting the 2 groups) you were likely several levels behind your opponent, so some of those stats he earned.
on top of gaining a few extra stat points for those levels, your opponent was able to gain on you in secondary skills as well, the difference between basic or no offence and expert in that sort of game is immense.
so there
|
|
destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
|
|
posted December 13, 2001 03:36 AM |
|
|
@ wacko
No sacking for arlack...
so there
--------------
The Dead Walk!!!
|
|
yawacko
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted December 13, 2001 03:44 AM |
|
|
I never said that you sacked arts, I only stated that you got an extra 25k experience from killin middle guards on your side and middle guards on his side. Having said that I dont know if that is the case...the sacking arts was a point because he could not make up losing that kind of experience anywhere else on the map except for on the alter
so there
|
|
Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
|
|
posted December 13, 2001 03:51 AM |
|
Edited By: Jinxer on 12 Dec 2001
|
I dont care where the stats came from. The point of my thread had nothing really to do with how he got them , the angle of my thread was once the main battle starts that double stats vs. double army should kinda balance, but there is no contest. i.e someone once told me that if you had 20 more attack than someone you in a sense do double damage. So like wise you would think if you had double the dragons that they would do the same damage. But it is no where near close. So what I am gathering from your post is that I should have not worried about staying back to buy double army I should have focused on rushing to middle to try and build stats higher. Which is exactly my point. I have found that double army is worthless if opponent has higher stats. So if all your arts SUCK then might as well forget the double army to bail ya out might as well go on a kamakazy mission trying to catch your stats up.
____________
|
|
Lord_Dragon_...
Tavern Dweller
|
posted December 13, 2001 04:02 AM |
|
|
stats sux, unless u have Solmyr.
creatures will beat stats.
____________
- Lord_Dragon_Knight_Hero63
|
|
rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted December 13, 2001 06:35 AM |
|
|
hmmm I'm praying that was sarcasm
____________
Myctteakyshd
|
|
destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
|
|
posted December 13, 2001 07:39 AM |
|
|
|
pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
|
posted December 13, 2001 07:59 AM |
|
|
What do you mean by that Rychenroller?
____________
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
|
|
|
|
