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| Thread: What Sun-Tzu said |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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a920076
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 20, 2001 08:47 AM |
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What Sun-Tzu said
I'm surprised to find some of here mentioning Sun-Tzu. ( BC 500 period??)
now, Sun-tzu is such popular name even in West society? (even in some game like Civ2 i can find his name.)
any way, Sun-Tzu is not winner/ but loser of those
period he belonged. Sun-Tzu was bitterly defeated and lost his both of legs and spent his rest of life hiding in his place writing his tactics.
Let me introduce some of Sun-Tzu tactics.
- Knowing myself and enemy, there won't be no defeat in 100 battle.
- Winning the battle is better than defeat.
but the best victory is winning without battle.
- Attack when your enemy are crossing middle of
the river.
- Fight at the higher land than your enemy is at
- Leave an escape way when attacking weaker enemy.
(or your weak enemy could be much stronger)
- Fight with river behind. and your troops will
do fight to their death.
sorry for poor English.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 20, 2001 09:04 AM |
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Sun-Tzu
He wrote nothing about hit and run, Sun-Tzu boy?
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a920076
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 20, 2001 09:49 AM |
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The true victory means...
This is what he said..
- The true victory means winning at ease.
Well prepared and with sufficient reason for
victory, we can get true win.
so, true victory is hard to be respectful or
fameful thing, while victory with many
difficulties usually get fame and respect.
But that's not true victory.
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2001 10:29 AM |
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Hi, a920076,
Well, I have to say I disagree with some of your pts. 
The guy who lost his two legs (I think you mean Sun Bun/Sun Bin) maybe Sun Tsu. It is just most probable answer and most commonly belief of people. As I know, the true identity of Sun Tsu is still a mystery, or at least with an doubtful answer.
I don't think Sun Tsu(Sun Bun) is a loser. Yep, he did lose his legs but not because of any fault of his tactic ! And at the end he did manage to kill his worse foe as well as his "classmate" Pang Chuen.
As I know, Sun Tsu's tactic does become the syllabus of even some US military colleges. There is already English (and other languages) translation of it.
I think his most well-known phrases is "Wind, Forest, Mountain and Fire"....
I don't know whether Sun Tsu wrote anything about hit-and-run......
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a920076
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 20, 2001 11:35 AM |
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well Thunder knight
You were right!
It is dominant theory that Sun-tzu is not sun-bin
the crippler,but Sun- mou .
But, it's still true thing that Sun-mou lost so bitterly and his writing is after his retirement.
(It's such a famouse story, his king tasted gall of
bear everyday not to forget his bitter defeat)
I'm not sure my memory is perpect.
Thx anyway.
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted April 21, 2001 11:06 PM |
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Immortal words
What lives on about Master Wu are his philophies.
To call him a loser is to miss the point entirely. It is not his legacy of land taking that interest people as much as it is his strategies which to this day have not been found flawed.
As for hit and run or as we who use it are now calling it, total tactics (to remove the negative connotation from it) I will look it up. Offhand I cannot think of anything.
Thanks a9 for starting this thread. If not for Prometheus I would have never been alerted to these great philosophies and perhaps others have not even heard of him.
-Mocara
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted April 22, 2001 01:46 AM |
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this age
Yes but that does not mean anything in this day an age. Just fire off a biological/chemical weapon and those tactics mean nothing. Back to the issue of Honor and how wars are won......
"If there are gods, they do not help, and Justice belongs to the strong". -Klingon Proverb
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Maxym
Known Hero
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posted April 22, 2001 02:05 AM |
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I don't agree...
I think the teachings of Sun Tzu can be applied today as well as they were in his age.
Sure the warfare has changed, but people have not. Knowing yourself and the enemy is still important, and the battle won without fighting, still a best battle.
I have decided to read "The art of war" in an academi translation apparently used by scholars and the military. And its a hard read and the nuggets of wisdom hard to find. But if you stop and think of some of his writing it makes sense even in HoMM.
Well maybe especially in HoMM, which is the pinnacle of strategy in my oponion. I have recently won a game in which i was outnumbered 24-18 in lv7 alone. I had better mobility and shackels. Spend few days gathering info on his territory. And then attacked when his army was divided. And what is using shackles, mobility and timing if not choosing to fight the battle on your terms 
I am sure if you think about it, we can all find instances where we use his wisdom instinctively.
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Anfi
Known Hero
Computer Puppet
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posted April 22, 2001 10:18 AM |
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no offence to this person you are all talking about, but you do not need to know of this person or his teachings to attack someone when their army is devided. tis just simple homm tactics.
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 22, 2001 02:00 PM |
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amen mate !!
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Myctteakyshd
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Maxym
Known Hero
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posted April 22, 2001 11:01 PM |
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that's what i mean by using it instinctively
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 23, 2001 01:19 AM |
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Hmm.... sorry Maxym i have to disagree with you on two points
1 "Sure the warfare has changed, but people have not. Knowing yourself and the enemy is still important, and the battle won without fighting, still a best battle"
Knowing yourself and your enemy is not at all important in the age where all it takes is too push a button to destroy your enemy.
2 "Well maybe especially in HoMM, which is the pinnacle of strategy in my oponion."
This goes to chess with out a doubt the ultimate strategy game.
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted April 23, 2001 12:42 PM |
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Sun Tzu
I couldn't really care less who Sun Tzu was, as he just spent his whole life sitting on his arse thinking about things that the common person could think up in 5 minutes about strategy and warfare. And hell, if I don't fight a battle and I win without a fight, then I haven't won diddly squat! Sun Tzu just sounds like a loser who likes the easy way of victory because he can't kick arse without his legs! And I'd like to know how he killed his enemy, I bet it wasn't through grand conquest, it was more like 'come on over and let's have some wine and a chat about life'. I reckon he got all soft on his enemy, probably started crying and then when his enemy gave him a consoling hug, he pulled out a knife and stabbed him to death! LOL, I'm on a roll! I should write books!
Chess is strategy indeed, but strategy is most commonly applied to the art of war and in that respects, chess lacks the feeling of battle (hey, unless you play battlechess!).
By the way arachnid, that argument about knowing your enemy is a very good one, because even if it does take a button push, how do you know that your enemy hasn't already done it? You have to know yourself, how far you're willing to go and your enemy (how far are they willing to go?) before you even THINK about pushing buttons.
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted April 23, 2001 02:45 PM |
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Hey, why don't you guys forget about Sun-Tzu and think about the wise words of his ancestor, Kostya Tszyu. 'I have power, I have much speed. He not going to last long in ring with me!'
And before you all ask, yes, I have had too much to drink!
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 23, 2001 03:28 PM |
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mmmmmmm battlechess now that rocked! Nothing more fun that killing the king with a pawn!
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted April 23, 2001 03:52 PM |
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A clue?
You must have a special spot for small things with round heads that always move forwards one space at a time! (dirty shae!) Knight versus Knight was always the best battle to watch!
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 23, 2001 03:58 PM |
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The castle eating the queen was good too.
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Mystery
Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
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posted April 23, 2001 06:09 PM |
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Hey, where can I get battle chess from?
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D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted April 24, 2001 02:18 PM |
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Shae your obnoxious post are always the highlight of the board but you are dead wrong about Sun Tzu.
He didn't spend his life sitting on his ass. He spent it on the battlefield.
I agree with Anfi about not needing Sun Tzu for heroes.
I use it in my daily life though.
The one rule that has helped me so much is to "never make an unnecesary enemy".
How many times in my life I had advantage over someone and did not care what they thought only to many years down the line regret making that enemy.
"Know thy enemy" is something that is essential to people in business.
I could go on but I won't.
Suffice to say that a great heroes player can certainly be so without reading Wu. But I think there are lessons in his teachings that can be used in life.
Furthermore a great heroes player could apply their heroes philophies to life;
How bout "Always be aggressive." or "Expand rapidly and delegate responsibility.". Heroes principals that are essential in life and business.
-Mocara
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted April 25, 2001 02:04 AM |
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Obnoxious? Me?
LOL, Mocara, I'm flattered that you find my posts to be a highlight, and yes, sometimes I do try to be obnoxious, but I rather prefer the term 'brave'.
I was just taking the ride out of Sun Tzu, I haven't really heard of him, I'm sure he's a wise man. Sometimes it's really hard to inject some fun into these posts as they can become a little bit stagnant and still sometimes and I find that I seem to be the only one of late trying to inject a little controversy, humour and contentiousness into them. If I were to take all this strategy and warfare stuff too seriously, I would go a little nuts. Sure, sometimes I get heated and my expressions aren't exactly tame, but I like being outspoken.
As for Sun Tzu, well this post is really quite moot because the he seems to make perfect sense and there's not really much you can dispute with his logic. LOL, what are you looking for, a bunch of people who post the words 'yes, I agree'?
Do something crazy for once eh guys?
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