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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Mutare Drake´s Vacation - New Wog map
Thread: Mutare Drake´s Vacation - New Wog map This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
jontahontas
jontahontas


Adventuring Hero
posted July 01, 2009 07:27 PM
Edited by jontahontas at 13:28, 11 Jul 2009.

Mutare Drake´s Vacation - New Wog map

Mutare Drake´s Vacation

In a time where the world looked to be doomed in an eternal war, a man appeared. This man had magical powers and knowledge beoyond all others. He formed an alliance with the dragons and founded the Overlord Kingdom. With dragons led by this man, the war came to an end and he claimed the position as the one and only ruler.

This man was Lord Bates and the years that followed after he took over were far worse than the previous war. Slavery and torture, hunger and dispair. The man was evil and his will ill.

A girl is born. Her name is Mutare. She is brave and curious. She spends her days inside the Dragon caves and becomes very close to the dragons. On her 18th birthday she is given a gift - The Vial of the Dragonblood and she transforms into a dragon.

Rumours spreads about this girl. "She should be our ruler" says the rumours. Afraid and horryfied by Lord Bates, Mutare Drake decline the offer. Lord Bates however see´s and understands the true problem that has risen. He dissapears, and his Armor, the mightiest arfefact there is - The Power of the Dragon Father - is scattered and blown into pieces. Given her nature, Mutare Drake is given the task to reclaim the lost pieces and restore the artefact. She is sent out on a journey of secrecy only carrying a few dragons with her.

But something has gone wrong. Someone have tricked her. Mutare Drake finds herself in the middle of enemy territory with no army and no possibilities to get back to her own lands. She gets news that her own lands have been invaded and conquered by enemies. Who have tricked her and why? Will she return to her homelands and will she restore the artefact? Is Lord Bates really dead?

the player will find out

The map is made by me, Jontahontas. Enjoy it!

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ChaosHydra
ChaosHydra


Famous Hero
posted July 01, 2009 07:43 PM

Downloaded.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 01, 2009 10:06 PM

There is still a problem left. You placed a quest guard in front of the castle which is enabled for pink player. If Mutare take that town (pink will open the gate first week) then the emperor will die after 7 days.

I guess the best solution is to change the quest gate to "belong to blue (player 2)", so no one can open that.
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jontahontas
jontahontas


Adventuring Hero
posted July 01, 2009 10:17 PM
Edited by jontahontas at 22:17, 01 Jul 2009.

Fixed! Use the same link as before!

edit: Didnt you add a script btw, disabling the 7day rule?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 02, 2009 12:21 AM

Yes, but when I tested, the emperor still died. So I guess that the script "live for ever" does not work with a dat.file (or with AI already having a town), but only with !#UN instructions. Strange, as Mutare can live for ever.
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Ayreon
Ayreon


Famous Hero
posted July 02, 2009 11:10 AM

A few minor grammar mistakes, but I guess we can all live with that
I'll play it once I finished Salamandre's 300 scenario
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jontahontas
jontahontas


Adventuring Hero
posted July 02, 2009 11:29 AM

I you are refering to the screenshot above, you wont see that misstake in the map! (resultet for ex.)

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 02, 2009 12:23 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 12:24, 02 Jul 2009.

It is a very good map, not easy for finding your way when playing the first time. But once you play it a second time, every thing goes smoothly. And those dragons...they are beautiful. If only they could be as good units as they look nice

Anyway, you will make your way through the challenges fighting with titans and collecting dragons...for their awesome graphics.

And you will get Solmyr on second week, so be prepared to rule the world!


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jontahontas
jontahontas


Adventuring Hero
posted July 07, 2009 11:08 AM

Catastrophy! No one plays!?

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted July 07, 2009 12:45 PM
Edited by angelito at 12:45, 07 Jul 2009.

Quote:
Catastrophy! No one plays!?
I started. But when I freed Solmyr from prison, gave most of his army to Mutare, and wanted to go into the direction of that northern town (which has to be conquered before day 21) with Solmyr (Mutare was out of movement points) and ran into an ambush on that road just 3 steps north of where his prison was located, I shut down the game and didn't touch it again since then.

These are things which are annoying as hell. Mutare didn't activate that event because he ran around it on the left. But all stuff and fights he did on that turn were for nothing due to this ambush Solmyr faced (and died of course).

When will map makers realize that ambushes (especially when there are more heroes around, so you can scout and chain) ruin the fun of playing a map? At least when you did many fights before on that turn.

I don't think it is a good solution to save after EVERY fight.
And also looking at the map editor all the time to check such things are not the way it is meant to be.

Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but I played tons of custom maps already, and pretty often maps didn't reach much popularity just because of those things.
Try to see the map from the view of the player (without any infos about the map). If there are too many things which forces the player to (unnecessary!) reloads, he will lose interest pretty soon.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 07, 2009 02:27 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 15:07, 07 Jul 2009.

I did not have problems with ambushes. Maybe because I have the habit to save after each combat, you never know what is going to happen. I think a 2 seconds "saving" is worth the work the mapmaker put in. But in general an ambush is a bad idea, unless the story is properly created (you get a message before and explanation). Switching constantly from game to editor is also a bad idea, thats why I suggested to the author to change the labyrinth, which pissed me because of 60+ switchings.

But after those minor details, the map provided a good challenge and interesting plots. Better than 90% of maps out here. The only weird thing I found is that you will rely on titans the whole game, while the story says how great are the dragons. Well...force field rules.

@jontahontas

It is not necessary to keep my name, I did not script this map. I only added useful script to get it work properly with your settings ( as the dat, no town rules, barrels). Not really scripts, but help/hints.

PS: It seems we got really satiated. Shutting a map for ever because one annoying event is as weird as blaming someone's comments here because of his first sentence, without reading further. And it happens every day. Well...hard to keep enthusiasm.
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jontahontas
jontahontas


Adventuring Hero
posted July 07, 2009 03:13 PM

Seriously? An ambush makes you turn down the entire map? And about that ambush. Three steps before, right on the road the player gets this event:

"Its not always good to travel on roads. Especially when traveling in unkonwn and unfriendly woods..."

From 100/100 cases when I testplayed the map and put the mouse on the Prison too go there, the game has chosen a path which leads over this first event. Then after reading it, and following the advice, I take another road to the prison. And since I know there is a trap there (the event said it), Im not gonna go in there with my weakest hero. Did you just click away the events because reading was boring? In that case suit yourself. =/

But it´s sad you feel that way Angelito, because there are not that many traps in the game, only these few in the beginning and also a few weaker one´s in the Inferno land. I also think I made a rather good map, excellent to be honest (yes I think one can say that about their own stuff ) so its sad to see players turning it down based on an ambush.

Ah well, nothing to do.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 07, 2009 03:20 PM

Send it to:

http://www.maps4heroes.com/index.php

You will surely get better comments there.
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted July 07, 2009 03:49 PM

Quote:
Seriously? An ambush makes you turn down the entire map?
It's of course not the ambush itself, it is the lost of the whole turn which made me angry. If I would have done nothing that turn, I would just reload and go on. But fighting 3 or 4 fights where you have to prevent many losses (because you just do not know what you have to expect the next days...), and than realizing all was for nothing....doesn't change your mood in a positive way...

Quote:
From 100/100 cases when I testplayed the map and put the mouse on the Prison too go there, the game has chosen a path which leads over this first event. Then after reading it, and following the advice, I take another road to the prison. And since I know there is a trap there (the event said it), Im not gonna go in there with my weakest hero.
This is again the difference between palyer and someone who knows the map. Of course I went a different way with Mutare, but after the fight, when I freed Solmyr, changed army, you just forget about that message, coz you focus on the next things to do...and then BAAM.

Quote:
Did you just click away the events because reading was boring? In that case suit yourself. =/
As I stated in Salamandre's threads already, I am not the reading guy. I want to play a turn based game, not read a fantasy book That's why I clicked away the whole text passages at the very beginning. I know, tastes differ. Some like good and deep stories, others do not. It doesn't turn a map into a bad thing only becasue it has much text at the beginning. this would be the case if there would be hidden essential informations which FORCE the player to read all the stuff.

Quote:
But it´s sad you feel that way Angelito, because there are not that many traps in the game, only these few in the beginning and also a few weaker one´s in the Inferno land. I also think I made a rather good map, excellent to be honest (yes I think one can say that about their own stuff ) so its sad to see players turning it down based on an ambush.
As already mentioned, it is not about the ambush. If you just have 1 hero running around (in a special region), ambush can only happen to this guy, and therefor all is good because you always have full army on. No problem. But as soon as you have the possibility to chain and scout, ambushes are annoying.

And btw., I didn't say I won't continue the map. I just said I didn't touch it since then. And this was 3 days ago.


@ Salamandre
It is really sad to see you fail to accept criticism. Since the day I told you my opinion about your map "300", you always have a sidekick on your post refering to my honest opinion I gave that time. Is this your real character?
How many people have finished this "300" map as of yet?
How many gave a honest opinion?
....

Your problem seem to be you feel personal attacked if someone critisizes your work. That's the wrong way you look at it. It would be better you take the opinions of the players and use them for your next work.

Only to bring the problem refering to the amount of quests on your map "300" back again:
I played Diablo 2 a lot. Inlcuding the expansion set, this role playing game has about 30-40 quests. Spread over 5 huuuugh landscapes/areas.
"300" has more than 100 quests. Spread over 2 small areas.
Just to see the relation. The map and its idea is for sure not bad. But its overwhelming.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 07, 2009 04:49 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 17:38, 07 Jul 2009.

Angelito:


I don't see why my character comes into discussions. Defending its work is a bad trait?

I take criticism like a man. But where is the criticism then? All I see is a bunch of players who keep saying "how great it is" when I prepare it, then giving up on first events because either they don't know how to play Heroes or they are too lazy/satiated to check for solutions. I don't blame them, but was hoping for better approach.

For example, "300" is a pure WoG map. Saying "it is no more Heroes" is wrong. It is not Heroes. It is much more. Now, do I need beginners to play it? No, because it is done having in mind skilled players, unfortunatelly. As you, as Pacifist and a few others. Every single aspect from Heroes mechanics was used here.

So, I will be indifferent to "it is too hard" critics. But I can't be indifferent when someone I respect takes the bull and then stops playing the map while he barely scratch the content. Too many quests? How can you know it, you closed it while being the second week. It is not a map to be mass played, but quality played. "300" use thousand times more complex scripts than HoTA and it is done almost by a single person. Have you seen the difficulties they have to release such project? And they are 10 to work on.

It is not like having 100 quests at once. They were full tested, picked by quality and reward. Each one offer an unique experience, with various visual effects, plots, as we will not see again for a long time.

Learning from player comments? I still wait them, for a full map experience. Not for a 2 weeks "promenade" which is not worth the time and fine tests I involved in. And you remember I changed asap the visibility on the first day when you pointed out your difficulties. Just to see you give up because you can't kill a champion with a fixed pattern (and an second easy option too). Conclusion: I pay attention to players comments. But I can't nothing if they don't thrust the mapmaker and give up so soon. I know the map requires reloads, but not exaggeratedly. I can even say that a concentrated approach will eliminate all reloads, but one or two, for better split.

Well, it is not a drama. I will keep my work for the game sake, not for having a fan club. Doing mass popular maps is easy for me, because I know the game. Cloning them is not interesting.

It seems you can't or don't want to feel how certain comments affect. Do you think Jontahontas reaction was close to mine for what reasons?

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Draker
Draker


Known Hero
Building the Dragon City
posted July 07, 2009 07:41 PM

I stucked with Sylvia. First time I send her to familiars. She killed them and took Amulet. But I can't take her back because of cursed ground and quest guard which demands defeated Galthran . Then I reloaded to earlier save and send her to Galthran but he is stronger even then when she has whole Mutare's army. Is there any trick or secrete passage or I have to defeat Galthran with Sylvia?

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jontahontas
jontahontas


Adventuring Hero
posted July 08, 2009 03:14 PM

Well I guess I understand. Even though there aren´t THAT many ambushes as a player you can surely get the feeling that you have no control and cannot really form a strategy since you cannot know exactly whats gonna happen.

And also there is the reloadproblem if you dont save often combined with the lack of reading interest. Abou the reading I agree. I wrote the stuff and I like to read. I still read like 1/10 of the events of other peoples maps which forces me into reloads / restarts.

I hear you, and I´ll upload version 1.02 (or whatever I should call it).

I´ll update that link btw.

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jontahontas
jontahontas


Adventuring Hero
posted July 08, 2009 03:30 PM
Edited by jontahontas at 15:32, 08 Jul 2009.

And now I sort of fixed it. I did not delete the ambush as the player need the creature experience, but I did add an event saying

"Never let Solmyr walk first in these unfriendly woods - NEVER. (he´ll die and you will have to reload).

Later in the game there will be less problems for scouters. The player will however be noticed when he should watch out and not send scouts out"


And also later on in the game in the Inferno land where there also are a couple of ambushes (the only area with ambushes) I added this:

"It is NOT a good idea to let a scout walk first here in hell. Do NOT do that, unless you want them to die."

Hopefully thats cool?

And about that Sylvia stuff. I added a portal so that she can escape back. I had another stack of creatures beside the Familiars before which where used to flee for (and there was a tavern in 1 town) but when I changed that and gave her town portal I forgot about the cursed ground and during testplay with Salamandre and myself the player could take another path. I am SO sorry about that! I realize you´ve been playing all along now dude and now you´re stuck because of this flaw. You can wait though until you get tavern at day 260 if you do not wanna download the version 1.02 and restart.

Btw Draker, how do you find the map so far? (just say it great, ok? )

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted July 08, 2009 03:32 PM

Very cool

Will try the map again this weekend and post my opinion afterwards...
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Draker
Draker


Known Hero
Building the Dragon City
posted July 08, 2009 07:57 PM

I played it for 14 months on Impossible difficulty. Map is excellent ,but how do you mean 260 days . In which town tavern will appear?

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