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Heroes Community > Tournament of Honor > Thread: Newbie's Corner
Thread: Newbie's Corner This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rejuvenation process
posted July 07, 2009 12:38 AM
Edited by Elvin at 00:46, 07 Jul 2009.

Newbie's Corner

There already is a guide of getting started with multiplayer but as every heroes veteran knows there is a lot more than meets the eye technicalities aside. Heroes always was easy to play but harder to master and this is especially true for H5. The complexity level has gone up a few notches and there are a few inconsistencies between the older games of the series, there are new tricks, some things work differently.
But never fear Elvin's here! And the rest of the tohers for that matter

The purpose of this thread is to clear up common misconceptions and cover basic stuff as not all the players are familiar with the previous titles or have only brushed the surface. Superficial knowledge won't help much here, it takes experience and an understanding of both your faction's capabilities as well as your opponent's.

So what you should have in mind when joining ToH?

1) Ubi maps are not recommended, they are poorly designed and badly balanced for the most part. That is not to say that every single toh map is the culmination of mapmaking but they are made by people who have been playing like crazy and know the game a lot better that ubi or Nival's staff. Not only that but they have spent a lot of time and energy to deliver you a good map so supporting them is the least you could do while in this tournament.

2) But when playing a map you should also consider that knowing the map is half the game. If you play someone that has played the map over 2-3 times then unless you are a lot better than him you stand virtually no chance. Check your opponent statistics.

3) However expect your first games to be an initiation to H5 multiplayer, even if you were a master in single player you will find you stand little chance in multi - at least for the time being. I strongly suggest that you start with hard opponents, you will become a better player within short notice.

4) Don't expect to find players for previous heroes games, nowadays it is mostly H5. Tribes of the east to be more specific, nobody plays the original H5 or Hammers of Fate.

5) Some veterans may not play you at first. It is not an act of snobbing, unfortunately the system gives you more victory points when playing higher ranked players. Also losing to a low ranked player hurts a lot more than losing to someone with same score. Play who you can at first and you will soon expand your players list.

6) While an all around knowledge of the game is good do not stretch yourself too thin. Never start learning more than 2-3 factions at a time, you are better off learning few and fast to get competitive. Good players often play random but better that you bide your time until then. Besides not all factions are well balanced for all maps.

7) Always set rules in the beginning of a game if you want to avoid arguments. Typical agreements involve no hit&run, no Wyngaal/Haggash or mentoring secondary kamikazes. Some people may have a different view of what is honourable to use so better to set some things straight from the start than causing them frustration later.

8) In the case of disconnection always repeat turn, battles and moves in exactly the same manner as before. If you do not it is considered cheating.

9) Do not be quick to judge others. Sometimes msn or hamachi may show online even if the game was disconnected. Likewise a save may be corrupted, does not necessarily mean anything.

10) Never and I mean never ever leave other custom maps in your maps folder when starting a game, same goes for mods. They will most likely cause checksum error or desync. Also if you have many saves remove them, it is possible that they will also cause an error those it is rarer.

11) Reloads may or not be granted, that is up to your opponent. Do not assume anything.

12) Do not forget to have the old hamachi version as mentioned in the other thread.

13) If someone does not report his games give it a couple of days. If the game is still not reported then contact ves and he will take care of it, his email is in the toh site.

14) Don't hesitate to ask a veteran's opinion, I'm sure most will be glad to help. As long as you don't pester them too much

15) Play with honour, play for fun It is a fun game, don't spoil it with petty disagreements.



Now some things about the game itself:

* Creeping and knowing the map can decide a game before it begins. If you clear your area first and move to the center before your opponent does you can gain an edge in level, spells and artifacts.

* Logistics is always good to have. You may lose on might skills but it allows for a faster leveling rate, getting treasures faster or retreating to prevent a loss if caught unprepared. Likewise enlightenment is amongst the best skills, not for xp bonus but for the extra stats it provides.

* Never pick more than 2-3 skills at max during creeping. You may be tempted to get more skills but you will more likely mess up your build. You don't need many skills to creep with, instead focus on learning creeping techniques.

* Some factions, magic factions specifically are better off rushing their opponents than let time pass. In contrast factions like sylvan, fortress and haven have in their best interest to delay the game, the longer it takes the stronger they become.

* Warmachines and destructive are mostly short term skills. Beyond week 4 their usefulness decreases. A flaming ballista can still be good late but it is easy to destroy in one attack.

* Maps that can be rushed week 2-3 are by definition not balanced.

* No matter what you read and what people tell you THERE IS NO PERFECT BUILD. Even if it existed you can never plan ahead each skill/ability, stick with 2-3 that generally fit your strategy and see how it goes from there. Do not ask me about skills recommendations.

* Certain factions are better countered with specific skills/abilities but always keep in mind that the opponent will be unpredictable. It is possible that you always defeated the AI with a certain build but if your opponents figure out a certain pattern they will use it against you.

* Learn how to command each faction's army in combat, search for combos, strengths and weaknesses. Luck plays an important role but the better tacticians will win a lot more often. Still keep in mind that if you have been outplayed in the adventure map or the opponent is lucky no amount of tactical aptitude may be able to save you.

* ALWAYS PICK GOLD! Possible exceptions in the first few levels or if you want to rush someone week 2-3.

* Try to have capitol, castle AND tier 7 by the end of week 2 if possible. You will need all the army you can get. You may have to skip some buildings for a few weeks, for instance while I build colossi week 2 I tend to leave rakshasas and golems for week 3-4. That is up to the map's available resources and gold.



Feel free to use this thread for questions, I hope it will help you
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fiur
fiur


Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
posted July 07, 2009 02:12 AM

Nice tread elvin... maybe U can help me a little... I'm stuggling alot these days (always lose and always unlucky with perks)...
what shall I do to get on the victory streak again?
____________
Hack and Slash....

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rejuvenation process
posted July 07, 2009 02:21 AM

Maybe if we play one it will recharge your luck
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Vangelis21
Vangelis21


Supreme Hero
Manchild
posted July 08, 2009 08:38 PM

nice job Elvin. Just a couple of sugestions as you know i can't handle it

1) * ALWAYS PICK GOLD!  Possible exceptions in the first few levels or if you want to rush someone week 2-3.

this is not an ALWAYS situation. for example if you have certain heroes (Havez, Vitorio, Telsek and many more) you NEED to get all the War machine perks within the first couple of days. so i would suggest Experience from chests until you get them!

2) There is always a problem with

-- Disconnect (dc)
-- lost in a fight and exited the game

Does anyone know ANY way to be sure that someone is not cheating? i doubt it. in any case i suggest not attacking the opponet with "i know you lost m******f******" because even if it was a real disconnect i doubt he will play you again.


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Heroes VI is here and Necropolis is serious trouble!

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rejuvenation process
posted July 09, 2009 07:56 AM

I covered the first, guess I was subtle. And it seems people occasionally learn from their mistakes
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Kispagat
Kispagat


Famous Hero
posted July 09, 2009 01:18 PM

Some people think that knowledge about a map is not part of the skills in h5, just a boring thing, and they play rmg instead.

I appriciate that but disagree. Since this is a strategy game, revealing the secrets of a good map requires strategical thinking and some kind of calculation.

There are different maps, in some maps 4-5 games is enough, but like in hg or TW at least 8 - 10 games needed to have a general view.

Multiplayer maps usually have two important areas:

1st home area, where you fight with neutrals only

2nd conflict area (center), where you will most probably meet your opponent. (usually taking the center means advantage in money, arties, stat boosters)

But why is it so important?

Because you need to plan the route of your main hero very carefully, and most probably you wont have sufficient time to visit the same place twice otherwise your opponent will get to the center first

If you know the map, you have some kind of estimation that on your way how strong neutrals you need to kill (creeping)and what army you need to kill them (Usually you know that at that gold mine is defended by pack of lvl 5 creatures, etc)

Now we have arrived the most difficult question of creeping. There is a neutral stack, which I cant win without heavy losses, but it guards a strategically important item. I cant retun, cuz I loose 3 days. What should be done?

Its impossible to give a general advice. Lets forget the possibility that you will make a suicide, since then an answer is obvious, skip it. In fact you need to decide how much the acceptable losses are. If you think that these losses does not cripple you, attack. How do you know that? You think over and over the map. How much help this specific item can give for the rest of the creeping and in the final battle? How difficult will be the creeping with that loss?

Why I wrote this down to support the theory of choosing xp under lvl 12-15. Most of the cases xp and higher level helps creeping lot more then gold.  Only when I really need money for some specific reasons I choose gold. (Above lvl 15, xp from a chest does not count, dont even waste movement point on that with the main hero)

Because the size of the army depends on two things at the final battle:

1. How much troops you gathered
2. How much you have lost on your way

Decreasing the second number is more important, since 1st number is limited.






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Fank0
Fank0


Known Hero
There are no limits
posted July 18, 2009 01:35 PM

Quote:
4) Don't expect to find players for previous heroes games, nowadays it is mostly H5. Tribes of the east to be more specific, nobody plays the original H5 or Hammers of Fate.
Quote:


Simply not true. There is a large and vital Heroes 3 community out there.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rejuvenation process
posted July 20, 2009 10:08 AM

Indeed and it won't be found here. What is your point?
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fank0
fank0


Known Hero
There are no limits
posted July 20, 2009 05:48 PM

As you can see you have found a heroes 3 player here, reading about heroes 5. Much to my surprise i have read "don't expect to find players for previous heroes games..." which besides from being not true is also deliberately misleading.

And why not find H3 players here, this is the TOH section of the HC. AFAIK Heroes3 and TOH share quite a glorious past. Yes, nowadays it is mostly about h5 on TOH. So what ? TOH is about Heroes in general, right ?
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And you believed that?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rejuvenation process
posted July 20, 2009 07:06 PM
Edited by Elvin at 19:06, 20 Jul 2009.

And you believed that?

Haha awesome
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forfunforgame
forfunforgame


Hired Hero
posted July 21, 2009 07:09 PM

I see many vietnamese people still playing heroes3. if u want, just make a room and i ask them to join

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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted August 26, 2009 09:35 AM
Edited by infinitus at 11:40, 26 Aug 2009.

Quote:
There are different maps, in some maps 4-5 games is enough, but like in hg or TW at least 8 - 10 games needed to have a general view.

HourGlass and TW are good maps for hardcore players, and not suitable at all for newbies players. Most newbies come here on TOH to get some easy fun in not too long game session. They don't want play 8-10 games just to have general view of HG map

Quote:
Ubi maps are not recommended, they are poorly designed and badly balanced for the most part.

My newbies story (maybe will help someone to survive here ) - Then i come to TOH i was complete noob, no single player experience in Heroes 5 at all, only some games in Heroes 4. I installed MSN and here i am on TOH, a couple of hour pass no one respond to my messages, i start to think TOH is dead place ... Then i was lucky, Elvin respond and say he don't have time for game but here is MSN of a newbie like me. This was MSN of Igigov. We played with Igigov a lot of fun noob games on nice looking UBI maps, i lost almost 10 games in row vs him After that i start my win strike vs him and he gone forever from TOH At this time i like to play only small maps that demand small time for finish games. And UBI maps was very good for this purpose ... Do i care at this time if UBI maps are perfect balanced ? No, i don't knew the game at all, all i care is fun ... So stop saying UBI maps are not suitable for newbies ... Here is the same situation like with toys for kids 1-2 years old... This toys may look stupid for 60 years old man, but for little kids this is just what they need ...
Also imagine other situation, player come from UBI server were he played only UBI maps and here he is rejected - eat our super maps or go look at the stars outside ... TOH people stop been so snob and radical ! For example - Willgefors played on UBI server 500-1000 games on UBI maps and he become one of the best Heroes 5 players. Conclusion - UBI maps are good for newbies ...

Other example/conversation i seen in UBI server lobby. Discussion between two not so noob players:
- do you tried to play on TOH ?
- yes but they use to play 1 hour per turn !
- lol, no comment ...
Conclusion - people are different, if they like to be this way, let them be ...

My today half noob preferences - random maps. Welcome to all newbies on TOH, i hope we will meet one day on random realm battlefield

P.S. And remember you are not the fresh meat, you are the veteran killer
   
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Nothing's impossible

http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rejuvenation process
posted August 26, 2009 09:37 AM

Indeed, that's why they play them for fun.
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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted August 26, 2009 10:35 AM

Well Elvin has sort of been my Mentor for Heroes 5, at which I am still very 'noobish' as I havn't many online games under my belt.  Heck even though I had a very good record at Heroes 3 since it has been forever and a day since I played online with it, I would probably be 'noobish' with it .

When I first started playing online in heroes 3, I learned fast that I had to lie.  Don't know what it was about the times, but nobody wanted to play against a female.  So, to everybody I was a male.  Only at first, however.  Once I had a decent enough record, it didn't matter.  In fact it seemed to help me get more matches when I finally let everybody know.  Seems everybody wanted to be the first to get 'revenge' against the lady who beat them senseless .

Of course my first few matches actually ended in horrible painful defeats.  I was one of those who thought "Hey I can beat the AI on the hardest settings, I will crush these guys." boy did my eyes get opened fast.  It wasn't even a contest, the experienced players stomped me into the ground so fast and so bad there wasn't enough to scrape up with a squeege.

Thing is I learned a LOT more from the defeats then I did the wins.  Don't get discouraged if you get your hat handed to you when you play online.  Learn from it.  We were all new players at one time.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rejuvenation process
posted August 26, 2009 12:14 PM

Hey now you don't need to lie anymore
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Restoring the light, facing the dark.

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Annul
Annul

Tavern Dweller
posted September 25, 2009 05:23 AM

I moved to H5 in the last year or so but prior to that I played H3 for ages.  It got to the point where I would beat 4v1 AIs on random maps on on 200% with consistency.  And yet I come online and it was extremely difficult for me to beat some other humans.

It's normal.
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janmar
janmar


Hired Hero
posted November 02, 2009 12:49 PM
Edited by janmar at 15:18, 02 Nov 2009.

hi, i sent a message to annul, but i dont wanted it )
can i call up the message to annul and copy into the forum or is it not possible?

vanJanmar

ps. thats newbie or? annul, please send the instand message here in the forum. thx

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rejuvenation process
posted November 02, 2009 01:04 PM

You can simply delete it from the HC messenger, if you want to post it in the forum go ahead.
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Restoring the light, facing the dark.

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janmar
janmar


Hired Hero
posted November 02, 2009 03:24 PM
Edited by janmar at 15:40, 02 Nov 2009.

hello,

i am new and i want to reach the middle of the skillwheel, is it possible to reach it to 100 %. how i have to skill? first the basicskills then the second ring and then the third ring. or i prefer a second ringskill instead of a basic skill and if i take logistic (for example i dont need logistic) is the skillwheelway destroyed?
i find it not good that sometimes only two choices for skills are appearing is that normal, that is mostly the reason of destroying my way to the middle (
i read in some threads that the middle is not so important, but is here anybody who is going to the middle of the skillwheel (the ultimative) succsessfully? who and mostly with which fractions? thx in advance your

vanJanmar

ps. i didnt find another thread, sorry and sorry for my english

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted November 02, 2009 03:37 PM
Edited by Azagal at 15:38, 02 Nov 2009.

In the right upper corner of the screen you should see a yellow box saying "outbox" and "Awaiting Delivery" in the "HC Messenger". You should find it there if he hasn't read it yet. If he has it's in "Read and stored" just below that. If it's not there either he deleted the message.
If you see the message just click on it and then you can copy paste it.
____________
"The superior man is modest in
his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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