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| Thread: after life |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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TheDeath
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posted October 27, 2009 05:28 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 17:28, 27 Oct 2009.
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All I claim is that, if those premises are true, everyone must go to heaven.
But they are not, because they're based on a wrong principle. ANY criticism on your premises you tell me "contradicts the premises", so what type of discussion you want?
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Not if it's impossible to spit in the first place in any other way than to affect those who allow to be affected.
I'm done with this. You can't grasp the simple fact that it's about SOULS here, not ACTIONS. Time may NOT EVEN EXIST IN HEAVEN, for all we know!
How can you have "actions" as you have here on Earth if there's no time?
THOUGHTS AFFECT AND DEFINE A SOUL. THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.
End of story.
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I can of course only talk for myself, but I honestly don't care what other people thinks, or if they agree with me or not, if I'd the power, I'd still give them the opportunity to get what they want.
If you've no reason for limits, you should put one up.
Are you telling me a rich parent should spoil his kid? Because he "has the opportunity to not impose limits on him"? How do you think the kid will turn out? You'd make a terrible parent, that's for sure.
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Secondly, eventhough you invite someone into your private property, it does not give you the right over said person, they still have the exact same rights as always, only difference is that you decide over your place, but you cannot discriminate their rights, such as reading their mind, or limiting their freedom in any other way (i.e. command them).
No but you know Heaven only lets good people in (after the judgement) so if you don't want to get scanned, you are not allowed in. That's fairly reasonable, no one forces you to get in.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted October 27, 2009 05:41 PM |
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But they are not, because they're based on a wrong principle. ANY criticism on your premises you tell me "contradicts the premises", so what type of discussion you want?
No, any critique on the premises I ignore, because this is not a thread about wether God exists or not, or what religion claims about God.
However any critisism against my arguments, using my premises I read and respond to.
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THOUGHTS AFFECT AND DEFINE A SOUL.
Only your own soul, the other souls count as well and just as much.
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Are you telling me a rich parent should spoil his kid? Because he "has the opportunity to not impose limits on him"? How do you think the kid will turn out? You'd make a terrible parent, that's for sure.
Let's first of all not make it personal, and secondly, I believe I did answer this in a previous post, here's the answer:
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A parent who influences the outcome so the kid things the entire world is about the kid, is to some extend a bad parent, but a parent who allows for the kid to find out what he/she wants, via experimentation and is there to provide safety against consequences that goes out of control of the kid, are in my opinion a good parents.
The line, however, is very thin, and probably also depends on who're judging.
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No but you know Heaven only lets good people in (after the judgement) so if you don't want to get scanned, you are not allowed in. That's fairly reasonable, no one forces you to get in.
According to you, but then I believe either premises 1 or 2 would have to be false, either God would then not be "good", or would not be allpowerfull, if both are true, a judgement can never be necessary.
Please note, I'm not saying we should ban things that are unecessary, I'm saying that we should ban things that influence others unecessarily, and are unecessary.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted October 27, 2009 06:47 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 18:48, 27 Oct 2009.
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No, any critique on the premises I ignore, because this is not a thread about wether God exists or not, or what religion claims about God.
However any critisism against my arguments, using my premises I read and respond to.
I can't argue with that. If your premise is that Heaven is full of bad people (this is not what you're saying, but this is an example only to show you my point), and then use arguments accordingly, how am I supposed to argue with it?
This is only for premise 1, premise 2 is a paradox (invalid), and 3 follows. 
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Only your own soul, the other souls count as well and just as much.
Exactly, which is why individuals get kicked out, not everyone at once. If you are bad (which means you=person, not you=actions you do), then you don't get in.
I don't see what's so hard 
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Let's first of all not make it personal, and secondly, I believe I did answer this in a previous post, here's the answer:
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A parent who influences the outcome so the kid things the entire world is about the kid, is to some extend a bad parent, but a parent who allows for the kid to find out what he/she wants, via experimentation and is there to provide safety against consequences that goes out of control of the kid, are in my opinion a good parents.
The line, however, is very thin, and probably also depends on who're judging.
I was only trying to compact it with the terrible parent thing. Yes a parent should give his child freedoms to do what he wants, but also not overprotect him. Kid will never learn and grow up that way.
So a parent should give a kid freedom to not do his homework, but if he doesn't, the parent should make his homework? I think it's better if the kid has to deal with the consequences of a bad grade, otherwise... well you get the idea.
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According to you, but then I believe either premises 1 or 2 would have to be false, either God would then not be "good", or would not be allpowerfull, if both are true, a judgement can never be necessary.
You are equating Good with Fool.
not a good idea (no pun intended).
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ohforfsake
Promising
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posted October 27, 2009 07:20 PM |
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So a parent should give a kid freedom to not do his homework, but if he doesn't, the parent should make his homework? I think it's better if the kid has to deal with the consequences of a bad grade, otherwise... well you get the idea.
Certainly, but I did also write that the parent should only intervene if the consequences goes out of control for the kid.
Not getting homework done is not a situation where the consequences goes out of control for the kid, but more an example of the kid either lacks self control (free will) to get their will beyond their lusts, or that the kid is actually not interested in the homework in the first place, which is a failure of the parents and the education system together, to not make certain the kid know what he/she wants, and gets to do it.
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Eden
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 27, 2009 11:29 PM |
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I may come off rude, but I don't see why we're arguing about opinions... of course you guys are going to clash with each other on your opinions, we all have different opinions.
Nevertheless, maybe I'm in the wrong with this idea, but I thought we were to simply state our opinions on the afterlife, mainly what nitch in the common beliefs out there we feel we fit in to. I did not think we were to argue our point. I personally just find it futile as my beliefs will never become yours, so why argue with you over it?
To restate my belief of the after life, to try to make it more clear (most likely not):
I, as a Christian, believe that when we die we are resurrected because of a Savoir, and then we are judged by a perfect God as to where we belong in our next life, whatever it may be. This God is able to make perfect judgment as to what we had knowledge to do and what we did do, and I believe we can't comprehend that kind of judgment because none of us are like that.
God is 'Good' because he will put us in the place we will be most happy. I feel the world is filled with a lot of "Hell" is bad, "Heaven" is good. I don't think it's quite so black and white.
I feel that we are placed into the place we will be the happiest in, which is the place we worked in this life to attain. I plan to live as well as I can to obtain a higher standard place, because that’s the place I think I would be most happy in. I.e. I don't like cursing and I don't enjoy being around those who do curse, thus I want to be placed in a 'heaven or hell' where there is no cursing, and to be worthy of this place I feel that I should not use curse words myself. If I choose to use curses in my life, then I apparently would not enjoy living in a curse free world.
If I am proven wrong in all these beliefs of mine, you know what...I DON'T CARE! If there is nothing after this life, I've made the choice now not to fear it but to embrace it for what it is. Whatever my fate be, I'll make it my bride, and live with it. And yes you could ask, what if there is no 'living' after this life...Well my point is I don't fear my fate, whatever it is, and I feel I'm emotionally prepared for it.
These are my beliefs, you can't change them, I can't and in a way don't want you to adopt them. I see no point in arguing over something that realistically can't be argued over. If you do not understand my statement of beliefs of the after life, ask and I'll try to rephrase it to make more sense (I don't always communicate right, please forgive me), but I will refuse to argue over yours, mine, or anyone's beliefs.
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If I must die, I will encounter darkness as a bride, And hug it in mine arms." —William Shakespeare, Measure for Measure
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TheDeath
Responsible
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with serious business
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posted October 27, 2009 11:46 PM |
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Certainly, but I did also write that the parent should only intervene if the consequences goes out of control for the kid.
Was it the kid's willing fault? That's the question...
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or that the kid is actually not interested in the homework in the first place
no problem if he isn't. My point is, thus, he should not expect a good grade. I do not stop him from NOT doing his homework, it's his choice. But he must bear the consequences. THAT's the important part.
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