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Heroes Community > Tournament of Honor > Thread: who needs to learn?
Thread: who needs to learn? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 23, 2001 07:32 AM

who needs to learn?

Had anyone noticed learning skill is a joke? At expert gives you 15% exp, that means each 1000 points you get 150. In the series Might and magic, learning is great, because there experience goes over 2000000. To get to expert level, only early game, you need 4500 exp . Later is even worse. Will it give you back what you spent for it? No. At least, after you reached something as 25 levels, heh. what about 3DO to change the amount of experience received in battles? then learning could be something great.Any ideas?

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3lionshield
3lionshield


Hired Hero
posted April 23, 2001 05:55 PM

yup.  Either increase the % value or make higher #'s of experience gained per level-it is a useless skill the way it works right now.
Along the same lines I would like to see resistance also increased maybe to 10% 20% 30% at expert instead of 20% at expert.  
Also Just a thought I had is that eagle eye and scouting should be 1 skill...still it would be a sucky skill for a main hero but it would improve both these skills for scouts.

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Mocara
Mocara


Famous Hero
what?
posted April 24, 2001 02:37 PM

I always laugh when people say eagle eye and scouting are useless because on scouts they can be very useful sometimes but I have to agree here.

I hate to say something is useless becuause once you do you will stop looking for ways to use it but truly the math has never lied. This skill is a joke.

Anyone who takes learning needs to go back and take remedial math. It is the only skill that is ALWAYS useless.

Let's take this thread another direction Salamandre.

I have a firm belief that all the towns have great strengths and in the right situation any of them can have advantage on any other.

Take stronghold for example. I love this underrated town that many hate and Rampart, another hated I also love but I cannot seem to figure out how the fortress matches up.

I tend to think of towns in 2 ways. They either have might. They have magic. Or they have both.

If I were going to rate the towns by guild I'd rate them this way. (of course it's all situational but I'll abandon that for a minute)

1) Tower
2) Dungeon, Rampart
3) Necro (spells for undead only give it a lower general rating), Conflux(tendency to get summon 5th level spell), Inferno(fire spells)
4) Castle
5) Stronghold, Fortress

So fortress tied for worst guild anyone would agree

Now on might;

1) Castle - Lev7 and Castle wk 1 is always possible
2) Inferno - same as above but lev7 is not quite as good
3) Stronghold - again the same but creature cannot fly
4) Rampart, Dungeon - Cannot build the castle and lev7 wk1 but the dragons are both formiddable
5) Necropolis, Conflux
6) Fortress - Slow non flying lev7,1 weak shooter. Cannot siege with this army very easily.

These are only my personal feelings but I would really like for someone to tell me what I am missing here.

Yes I love mighty gorgons too but without a necropolis nearby I personally find this town to be inept.

Someone please teach me how to use the fortress and tell me it is not as useless as learning =)
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Zud
Zud


Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
posted April 24, 2001 03:06 PM

Fortress

I am liking fortress more and more.  there are many good things about the strength of these underrated creatures of course the stare of the mighty moo (best azure, rust crystal and faerie dragon killer bar none) but the advantage of building flies day one and getting all scouts with a speed of 9 is sweet.  hydra and a chaos might not fly but you can take 1 or 2 of em into a crypt, treasury imp cache and the creatures just sit there while U kill em (they stay away from the multiple hit of the hydra)a few basils have a good chance of stoning opponent and it seems the monarchs poision about every time they strike (rocs need to take lessons from em) You prolly know most of this but with a good magic supplemental castle Fortress really rocks (you just need a forest of wood week 1)

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Jex
Jex


Known Hero
posted April 24, 2001 03:33 PM

Ssssshhhhhh

Zud be quiet, your tipping everyone off on how I have won so many clan games. It is interesting to see that someone else knows how to use a hydra to its full ability, on a certain ...... oops said too much already
If you want some tips Mo, play me a clan game, and go over the saves
Jex

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Defreni
Defreni


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 24, 2001 06:42 PM

Hehee )

Well ur secret is out Jex, though some of us have known it for some time now

But the big problem for fortress is still the low speed of Hydraes Mighty muus and basilisk, who are the truly damaging troops in the fortress arsenal. Its soooo frustrating to meat a few red dragons on sephinroth with ress and lightning, and after 1 hour of battle see that ur last Muu is killed by her last spellpoints
Well thats a completely different story, in a completely different thread

Defreni
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 24, 2001 07:19 PM

jex'secret

It's not big deal this secret. It's only that Mocara still doesn't understand that sometimes his fair questions find answer to a small minority from toh who play by their own rules, and by this, distort the game.

  Maybe they are right. Jex, and others, playing without hit and run give a big chance to fortress or stronghold to survive and even win if handled by skilled player. But if game played as it came out, well,fortress will fail miserably,hydras never having the time to move.

But this goes in other discussions which had been already exhausted. And every one thinks he is right. We will see in HoMM4 the strategies that they will offer us.
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3lionshield
3lionshield


Hired Hero
posted April 24, 2001 07:45 PM

IMO Fortress is completely dependant on other towns for its success.

Take for instance 2 very opposite style maps.
Hourglass style maps(high in resources easy to capture towns & quick hero advancement[usually closed but not always])
or Battle for honor(comparitively low in resources, Only a few towns that are well gaurded & few hero advancing arts/map objects[usually open maps])

On hourglass I have found that fortress can usually find a suitable hero & many spells & possibly some speedy level 7 joiners it has no glaring weaknesses once these aspects are filled.  

On a bfh type map fortress is much harder to use succesfully.  My reasoning.  1st its simply harder to avoid casualties without having a spellbook and some useful level 1 spells.  If you do buy the mage guild you can't get hydras + castle
2nd the 6 & 7th level are just not up to par.  Wyvern monarchs have the great specialty but have only 70 health they are easily killed with usually only 1 or 2 damage spells.  Hydras are too slow and can be picked off by shooters/spells.  The rest of the units I think are actually above average but not capable of winning by themselves.

I am sincerly hoping some of you disagree with me strongly enough to hunt me down and force me to play you so that we can settle this matter
I'll take fortress on HG style maps and I'll take anything else on bfh style maps.
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Phantom1500
Phantom1500


Adventuring Hero
posted April 25, 2001 03:35 AM

Fortress is a town that is highly underappreciated these days, because most people just play most with tons of money and resources on 100 level game with a trading post almost always there.
You put them on a map with scare resource and money and difficulty 160 or 200 and you truly start to appreciate the power of these swamp dwellers. This town is by far the cheapest, doesn't require many resources other than wood, and has the ability to build wyverns either day 1 or 2 with a fairly solid archery back. As compared to the other towns this start advantage is huge and makes them much more dominant than any other race at the opening of the game.
They do kinda suck at sacking castles, but i find it essential to get water magic with your heroes when using fortress and being a water based town, they almost always get teleport in their guild. Teleporting your moo cows for the big blow or your hydras proves to be extremely effective.
I was never a big fan of that race when i played all toh maps, but now that i play mostly random maps at high difficulty levels, this castle has become one of my favorites and getting them is a happy day, instead of most people who get dissapointed and just wanna conceed right then.
Plus having all scouts speed 9 rules.

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3lionshield
3lionshield


Hired Hero
posted April 25, 2001 05:47 PM

I must admit that everything I said is limited to set maps that are TOH.  I am sure that a some part of heroes has been limited from me by playing soo much TOH and soo little heroes apart from it.  But overall TOH has greatly enhanced my heroes experience (from the days where finishing the campaign games within 4 months was a challenge)
btw I have only played 3 games on random maps and I must say that all of them have been extremly lopsided.

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Nernug
Nernug


Adventuring Hero
posted April 25, 2001 09:43 PM

Fortress

No matter what kind of game it is, be it a videogame. I always pick the race/town/guy which the fewest people are playing.
No castle, no tower, no dungeon or whatever.
And why you say? First you get underestimated, and at best laughed at, and than you kick their asses!

(And you can always blame the town if you lose!)

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Mocara
Mocara


Famous Hero
what?
posted April 26, 2001 01:02 PM

Jex wouldn't you want me to send you the saves so you can see up close and personal how I beat you? :-)

Yes that's a line in the sand.

See you in the zone.

Bring your rules.

-Mocara
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Jex
Jex


Known Hero
posted April 26, 2001 01:58 PM

not interested

Mo, you obiviously dont enjoy the style(hell same game) of gameplay that I do. Besides when I have a disagreement with someone it is better to settle it the old fashion way. If I wanted to fight I would be at a bar. I play for fun, not out of angry.
I hate setting rulez too, thats why I play people who play the same way as me like the blastards.
Not to mention your not in a clan

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Mocara
Mocara


Famous Hero
what?
posted April 27, 2001 12:09 AM

I play for fun to.

No points then.

I am saying I'll play by YOUR rules so we don't need to dispute that.

I am sure you are a very good player but when you say something like "play me and save so you can learn" I take that as a friendly challenge.

I accept.

Let's play for fun =)

-Mocara
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Maxym
Maxym


Known Hero
posted April 27, 2001 06:55 PM

yeah and lets us all know how it turned out

and yeah i think Fortress requires a lv4+ guild town on a map to be succesful. If you can get a Offence hero and a resurect spell then i think Fortress is the hardest town to put down.

ANd it is a very good town, except for wyverns wich suck as lv6 but then are available very early.


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Mad_Unicorn
Mad_Unicorn


Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
posted April 27, 2001 07:18 PM

blah

why would you wanna make fortress unbeatable?? its already strong enough much more power would make the town pointless like the flux (which is fun to have if u both got it but "normally" a slaughter if u do and ur opponent dont)

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Maxym
Maxym


Known Hero
posted April 27, 2001 08:35 PM

LOL i don't propose to make it unbeatable, i like it the way it is.  I said It requres a lv4+ TOWN. I know it doesn't need it but if there is one on the map i always take it and build the magic guild up and if i get REZZ then i know i am sitting pretty. Try killing those Cows or Hydras over and over again

And yeah the whole flux town was a mistake, i used to play on MPlayer where everyone had AB and i was sick of EVERYONE playing flux. I have tried to stick to other towns with some succes and it was an uphill battle.

So i learned to play flux and played, thank gods not too long coz then I joined TOH and havnt played AB for ages

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EliteDewd
EliteDewd

Tavern Dweller
Eve Online Miner
posted April 28, 2001 01:37 AM

Fortress rules

Fortress is especially useful on maps where you can find level 8 and 10 creatures, like the Showdown 1 (AB) and 3(SoD version). The Mighty Moos take them out instantly. Not to mention that without decent spells you can't lay siege on a fortress town with all those blood obelisks and glyps of fear and the double hexes moat. Also with 4 Chaos Hydras and some dragon flies you can take out a 5 blacks utopia in no time.
All in all, fortress is not so bad as it seems at the first glance.
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Mocara
Mocara


Famous Hero
what?
posted May 01, 2001 12:10 PM

Fluxed over

I think conflux is not overpowering.

It is a town that is very interesting because of the immunities.

It is not only the best town to hit and run with but also by far the best at stopping it.

But in a brawl it is weak I feel.

In a toe to toe brawl I do not think it holds up w/the low HP creatures. Even though they strike first.

-Mocara
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Maxym
Maxym


Known Hero
posted May 01, 2001 04:18 PM

Finally I get to disagree with you Moc

I think conflux is very, very powerful and that is related to their weaknesses wich you are correct are their mid-level units.

Those fire and earth elementals just plain suck, especially earths wich suck and blow at the same time, if that is possible

But you don't have to use them, if you build fast you get to have a nice army composed of your best units only. And since you can always attack when u are at your peak then your opponent will not have time to employ all his units.

This ability to field an army composed of ur best units fast is the conflux advantage. Sure if you let it drag out into 2 month affair then you lose that advantage and flux is not such a great town anymore.

Also starting with a magic school is pretty cool. You also get the best scouts(3 power, 3 knowledge) with a very fast unit, speed 7 sprite. And if you plan on a longer battle, then you can safely go with a offence/armorer specialist and be assured of all magic schools you need thanks to the university.

Also ur lv7s are not only fastest they have highest weekly HPs (800 compared to 2nd highest 600) and they deal most damage. This makes for a powerful combination. I have had phoenixes cloned on me 1st move and when you get hit by 2 most powerful stacks on the battlefield its really hard to get off the ground then

And yeah I think those slow troopers were using an Ogre's Club of Havoc LOL

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