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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Adventure Map: The Hidden Land of Heroes IV
Thread: Adventure Map: The Hidden Land of Heroes IV [ This thread is 2 pages long: (1) 2 ]
ThE_HyDrA
ThE_HyDrA


Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
posted January 21, 2002 12:22 AM
Edited By: ThE_HyDrA on 20 Jan 2002

Adventure Map: The Hidden Land of Heroes IV

Adventure Map: The Hidden Land of Heroes IV

Fellow heroes, we know much about battles, heroes, skills, and certainly creatures, but there are still ideas and concepts which have not been expanded; not been transformed. And this, my dear sirs, is one of them: The ever-changing adventure map of Heroes IV.
We here at HC have been so caught up in worrying about creatures, and wondering about skills and spells. Iím not saying its bad - because that is also very good and we need to know about these things, but instead of repeating threads over an over again, why not make ones about things we donít know, things we want to find out about Heroes IV. The adventure map, like many other aspects of HoMMIV, has undergone some changes, slight and large. Changes, which could change the course of scouting, hero and creature movement, and other events like creature recruitment dwellings. On top of this, there are also a multitudinous number of other events on the adventure map, much like the ones in the ĎGlory Daysí of HoMMII.
The purpose of this thread is too discuss these changes, as, like battles, it is the missing piece to the Heroes IV puzzle that needs to be fitted.
Iím sure that there is still more information about the adventure map to come, but Iím just going to outline the ones that you may know already.

There are 4 major parts of the adventure map in Heroes IV:
1) The Hero and his/her army.
Well, ultimately youíre the one who has to play the game, play the map, and gain the events, so you and your compatriots are. (Enemies)
Enemies make up the competition for resources and mines on the map. Without the existence of these annoying critters, there would be no game.
The hero also controls the flow of the game and the utilisation of the adventure map.
2) The events and map locations.
These are the aspects that actually make up the interactive part of the adventure map.
These items include Dwarven Treasuries, Faerie Rings, Mines, and School of Wars.
Without these, it wouldnít be called the adventure map. These are needed to keep the hero learning, and the creatures and resources coming.
3) The scenery and castles.
The things like trees and elevations, which make the obstacles for the hero.
The scenery also creates paths to certain areas, and is also used to guard places on the map. Of course, the new introduction to this is a wall, which can be built around a castle, but more on that later. Without these aspects, you would be able to move freely throughout the map, except of course for wandering monsters.
4) Terrain and the creatures on it.
As we know, these two aspects are very vital for Heroes games. The terrains of the map indicate how quickly the hero may travel. Since the Asylum has their home terrain as swamp, it has an advantage, since swamp is very slow, and other castles get that treatment, but Asylum moves quickly on it.
Of course, wandering monsters are also a very crucial part of any Heroes game. It just wouldnít be the same without them. They can now guard a wider variety of map events.

So, as you now know, there are 4 main aspects of the adventure map. But that is not all there is to it. Under these categories, come new, expanded, and some original adventure map options. An example is a resource. They are now much more useful, as you need them to create mines before you can actually start gaining that resource, instead of just collecting it, and be done with it.
Another example is the undulating terrain. Not only are there mountains, which prevent the hero and his/her army from crossing, there is also the possibility of heightening terrain. One thing I would like to see with this is that it should take the hero a longer duration of time for him to reach the top during the climb up. Since you wouldnít climb a hill at the speed you would move across a plain of flat land. This will make having a castle on top of a hill a great asset.

As you already know, there have been many changes from the Heroes III adventure map to the Heroes IV one. So the question here is; what do we know, and how can we put it to use, and what donít we know so we may figure out the meaning.
Iíll just put a few of the new changes down so we have something to work with at first, and you may add others as time goes on.

As well as the native town terrain aspect of the Adventure Map, there is also morale boosting and lowering lands, much like the ones in Heroes III, but expanded to have greater significance and effects.
What we might see, are battles with certain primary skills induced-without the hero Learning them. The terrain-even in water may have differences-say the whole army may move slower when battling in a swamp or on a ship. Possibly the usage of artifacts and potions may have been greatly advanced just because of what the hero and his/her army is battling on. Terrains may be even more important, still.
Another effect with the terrain, which we will see change is when viewing your castle; you also view what terrain is surrounding it. This brings more realism into the game, as in Heroes III, one might have been controlling a Fortress town in the Ice, while inside the castle, and it was covered in swampy terrain! It looked a bit abstract to me, and Iím glad that aspect has been changed.
Speaking of terrains, to expand it further, it has now become apparent to me, that in Heroes IV, we will see a new terrain emerge. This terrain is named forest, which could mean tropical or woodland. Obviously it will include a multitude of trees, and will be harder to navigate.

A new aspect of the Adventure Map in Heroes IV, which has been puzzling to the majority of people here, when first noticed, is Fog of War.
The definition of Fog of War is not as complicated as it sounds. It was used in all the HoMMs, just used a different name. Fog of War is actually the dark area on the adventure map, which is used to symbolise the areas of the land not yet explored by you, the operator. Although it is very similar, there is as usual, an enhancement in Heroes IV. There will now be two separate layers of Fog of War. The first layer has to do with the hidden land, and the second has to do with the opponents, which are visible by you. Because of this, it will become more strategic in terms of utilising the Navigation and Scouting skills. If you are able to see more, you are also able to make judgements sooner, and decisions quicker. The watch towers will now become a treasured object, since they are able to see through the Fog of War, and should be protected well.
People have stated problems with Fog of War, saying that if you chase a hero into an unexplored area, you may be led on a wild goose chase. So this means you must make a decision if you want to explore first, or explore later, so this doesnít happen. Itís the style of game you play and how you use the land and its resources.

On top of these new developments in map playing, it has been stated that there will be over 300 new structures on that map. This will prove to be very difficult for a small army without much mobility, since they may not have the speed to access these new events first. A few structures that have been confirmed are mammoth sized Ceolocanth jaws in the sea, and ornately detailed Dragon Statues on land.
Another familiar fact is the ability to build walls around castles and other towns as a form of added protection. Castles will now be more important because of the use of prisons and special buildings which have great capabilities over the adventure map, and hence the use of walls around them, and even small towns, which have not been developed.

Concerning the ever-important creature-hero link, it is now apparent that creatures will be able to scour the adventure map, without the control or guidance of Heroes.
This will make things much easier for transportation, as you will not need to recruit a hero every time you need to ferry or battle with creatures. On top of this, creatures will also be able to create mines on the adventure map, and also activate many other interactive events located on the adventure map. Enemy creatures may now wander the adventure map on specified turns, too. So you will definitely have your hands full while traveling with a relatively weak army. Without a hero present, and if you get challenged to a conflict by an opponent, a pre battle custom for your creatures will be to join the enemy hero, if diplomacy has incurred the decision, or just flee as they did in previous Heroesí Series. These events only occur if your creatures are comparatively weaker than the enemy, and they have a hero present. This effect also works both ways, thankfully. It also works on any solely creature stack, whether it be independent or controlled.

Another great development, which has been the spark of some discussions lately, is the usage of caravans. Caravans come as a surprise to many, and an inevitable fact to others. Caravans will now work similar to heroes in some ways, but will be rendered unable to fight, and also invisible to opponents. The main purpose of caravans is to ferry creatures to a destination without being noticed. Even though creatures may now move on their own, you now have the capability of traveling much faster in a caravan instead. Although the cost is dearer, the invisibility compensates for the gold loss. In my opinion, caravans are now a huge asset to the strategically influenced Heroes IV. Not only will they prove to be very difficult to interpret, they will also be extremely useful for those campaigns where stealth is needed. They can also be used to transport your creatures to your hero, for greater convenience in combat.

Along with many other changes to the adventure map terrain in Heroes IV, the native castle terrains have also undergone some changes, even though they are not very drastic, they can be very crucial in a Ďhero chaseí.
I agree with most of these native terrains, but Iíll let you judge that.
Academy, Order Magic: Snow (like Tower)
Haven, Life Magic: Grass (like Castle)
Preserve, Nature Magic: Forest Preserve get the brunt of the good and bad comments induced by the surprising new terrain.
Asylum, Chaos Magic: Swamp (like Fortress)
Necropolis, Death Magic: Volcanic (like Inferno)
Stronghold, No Magic: Rough (like Stronghold)

Well, as proven here, there have been many new changes to the Heroes III adventure map. But these are just the gameplay changes, the graphics have also changed greatly, but thatís nothing to be talked about compared to gameplay. Gameplay is much more diverse than the graphics, even more so in Heroes IV. I think the team at 3DO, have made the adventure map more challenging and more exciting than even I had thought. With the added functions of caravans, creature movement, and mine flagging, the time spent on the adventure map will be more treasured and strategic. As a result, you may have to take more risks and use your turn more wisely, with investing in logistics and scouting. The general gameplay of the Heroes that we know will be advanced for these reasons. But if we donít examine why the new additions are included in the game, we will not know what to think about them. The new features will no doubt be beneficial in most ways, knowing the reliability of 3DO and NWC. With the expanded explanations that the members here may give, we will get to know why and what these events and objects actually do, and why they are there.
So, post away!

____________
"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.Ē

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Tristan
Tristan


Promising
Known Hero
illegally insane
posted January 21, 2002 02:47 AM

Just a few notes to start things off...

According to the recent e-mail interviews done by h3trio, a few more things have come to light.  One of those means that I will probably need to buy some more memory before playing it!  

Prisons:  Every town will come with a prison prebuilt.  I was pretty sure the prison used to be something that needed to be built.

Caravans:  Almost sure that caravans will not cost anything, just the loss of your troops for the time they move.  Just my opinion, but I don't think they will "scout" the area they go through.  Also, caravans can only transport troops to another town.  I think so, but could be wrong.  My opinion, maybe some other structure they could be sent to?  The watchtowers maybe?

Other strange places:  I get the feeling that there will be some places that will be a great surprise to all.  Also, what happens at a place could be changed with the scripting tool in the editor.  Lots of possibilities here!

Well, getting a bit tired now, I will be back later with more I am sure
____________
If you learn so much by losing, why am I so dumb?

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Camelnor
Camelnor


Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
posted January 21, 2002 03:47 AM

i have just one thing to add...

close the thread and wait for Heroes IV to come out.

we dont know that much about the adventure map, and doubtfully will ever until h4 comes out, so just wait.
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My Site


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DarkTitan
DarkTitan


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 22, 2002 10:06 AM

Close it?

What are you, idiotic? The starting post is only, what, 2000 words? (sorry, i got tired and didn't read through all of it)  I reckon every thing here is correct. True, the adventure map hasn't been revealed much but so what, its as if hydras made stuff up (assuming he hasn't)  
____________

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Tristan
Tristan


Promising
Known Hero
illegally insane
posted January 22, 2002 03:30 PM

to those who don't like this thread...

A simple solution, don't read it, don't post in it, totally completely ignore it, act as if it didn't exist.  C'mon people, I have seen threads that didn't even belong here that haven't had this sort of stuff said about them.  Some of us actually LIKE talking about this stuff and don't want to wait until heroes 4 comes out, so why not just leave us to our fun, it isn't hurting you.

anyhow, a few more notes, one of which might not belong here

Caravans seem to be a building you buy in your town, but no cost to use once you bought it.  Might need one on both ends?

Stronghold is able to hire any MIGHT hero, so they are pretty weak in magic.

well, gotta go now
____________
If you learn so much by losing, why am I so dumb?

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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted January 22, 2002 03:49 PM

Once again, compliments to Hydra on a great job which must have taken quite an effort, and a smack on the head for Camelpoop (wasn't that his name?). Man, every time I see one of your posts, it's something destructive. Either it's this thread sucks (in varying forms), this thread is useless, this information is wrong (but never a correction or constructive criticism, just stale). And it is getting tiresome. Personally, I found this thread very interesting, directing my attention to aspects of the game I had not thought much of before. But still you argue that the thread should be closed???? In my opinion, the only reason to close a thread is if it is in any way abusive or offensive, or if it contributes absolutely nothing of value or if it's a duplicate of another thread. This one's neither, so shut your camel mouth and let us get on with it!
____________
There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.

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Darkspirit
Darkspirit


Famous Hero
aka Zutus
posted January 22, 2002 03:56 PM

Since everything is said in the starting post, I'll just keep it with this remark:

How on earth can you have the time to write such long posts? I really don't understand. Even if I had the time I wouldn't do it, since I'd get so damn bored. However I really admire the fact that you can write such long and interesting posts.
____________
Young moles appear to be in full dispersal which means there are more moles per acre than at any other time of the year

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Linkki
Linkki


Adventuring Hero
posted January 22, 2002 04:30 PM

Caravans

Here's the info about caravans, confirmed in the H3Trio interview:

"Players use caravan town structures to automatically send creatures from garrisoned armies or creature dwellings to other towns owned by the player.  It doesn't cost money to use a garrison, but it does take time for a caravan to reach its destination." -Jeff Blattner, Executive producer of NWC

So, caravans are used to send units from town to town, which is a good thing, as being able to send them anywhere would cause serious exploitation possibilities. It wouldn't really work that well, either. So the caravan only let's you to send the units to the town nearest the armyo you want them to join, not to the army itself. They most propably disappear from the game for the time they are moving.

Thanks,
Link

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ThE_HyDrA
ThE_HyDrA


Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
posted January 24, 2002 07:15 AM

Thanyous and caravan discussion...

Luckily, I saved my post in word, so Iíll just post it again.?? This baffles me too.
(BTW: Itís exactly the same)

My sincerest thankyous to everyone for your support. But please, let us put everything behind us, and continue the discussion on caravans, and any other topics you wish to bring up.

"I just thought that this information was painfully obvious to everyone,"

To some. But we must not forget, everyone here is apart of this community, not just a bunch of well informed ones. But I thought this information was pretty new, maybe the oldest was about 2 months, and as far as I know, there has not been a thread on this topic, and such an extensive one too. So I decided to make one.

Caravans:
This topic is quite interesting, as it still involves much speculation, as does the Fog of War, but seeing as the Fog of War is an advanced method onto what the 'uncharted territory' was in Heroes II and III at least, where as the caravans are a totally new concept, I would like to start with this.
"Caravans seem to be a building you buy in your town, but no cost to use once you bought it. Might need one on both ends?"

Hmmmm. I am pretty sure that something in the caravan regime will cost some of your own shiny pieces, and wood, to actually construct either the dwelling or the caravan itself. An asset as important and useful as this must surely come at a price, even if it is just a small one. Personally, I wouldn't like to see a caravan for use just instantly. It is not like a prison, since caravans are not a necessity, but an advantage.

"So, caravans are used to send units from town to town, which is a good thing, as being able to send them anywhere would cause serious exploitation possibilities."

Correct, Linkki, that was also my interpretation on this situation. The possibility of flagging mines unnoticed comes from this: I believe, if there is a mine extremely close to your own castle, but it is owned by another player, you may just let the creatures stop off at the castle, and then venture that extra 5 movement steps to the mine, and take it, while the enemy has lost you, and realises you've taken the mine only after you've exited the caravan. I agree on the fact that if caravans were to travel where ever, they would make travelling normally useless, as they could travel in a caravan and go unnoticed. It could also be a problem for an unguarded castle.

"What happens when a caravan is sent to a certain castle, and before it gets there, the castle is captured by the enemy???"

I am not entirely sure on that question, Camelnor. My GUESS is that the caravan will either be:
a) Diverted to the casltle in which it came from
b) Diverted to the nearest allied castle and taken there instead.
c) Stopped, and the creatures will be let out to roam free once more, without a set path.

"Ive heard rumors that in h4, the penalty for getting in or out of a boat is no longer a whole day, just some movement... Can anyone confirm this?"

Nope. Well not me personally anyway. But I would not like to see the current system change, as in RL, I think you would need at least a days preparation before you set off anywhere on sea. But if the destination was reachable in a single turn, then I would think it would be unecessary, as the land is in view, and the voyage time can be estimated.
How about if the movement spent in getting into a boat is measured by how far away the destination is?

"How on earth can you have the time to write such long posts? I really don't understand. Even if I had the time I wouldn't do it, since I'd get so damn bored. However I really admire the fact that you can write such long and interesting posts."

Thanks, Darkspirit, if this is a serious question that you would really like to know.... It took me about a week to write it, since it takes a while gathering information from assorted sites. It also took another week to check if the information was actually right, and made sense. (Which it still mightent )  I don't get bored, since it is about the game of Heroes IV, and anything about that is interesting to me.

Prisons:
Here, I agree with Tristan(AS ususal) that prisons must be built and are a necessity in the game. It would also be a great shame if you lost the chance of keeping the opponents best hero for a few weeks.

"Once again, compliments to Hydra on a great job which must have taken quite an effort, and a smack on the head for Camelpoop (wasn't that his name?)."

LOL. Excellent to see you back and posting in the Altar, DonGio. Its good to have you back.

Thanks once again to Tristan, DarkTitan, DonGio, Darkspirit, and Camelnor(For your good quesrions to actually make up for what you said earlier. )

____________
"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.Ē

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Linkki
Linkki


Adventuring Hero
posted January 24, 2002 08:27 AM

Ok I'll once more post a much shorter version of my post:

Mines cannot be exhausted, unlike some have thought they could. They still have unlimited supply. Exhausted mines exist in the game, but they are created by the mapmaker, they do NOT get created during a game. This info is confirmed.

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Tristan
Tristan


Promising
Known Hero
illegally insane
posted January 24, 2002 03:20 PM

I really wish I had the time to index where I got my information, but I barely have time to get it.

From an interview movie on some site:

Every town will come with a prison.  Victors will be able to choose between slaying an enemy hero or taking them prisoner.  (I think originally, the prison would need to be built.  Maybe they were afraid they wouldn't be?)

Caravans are built in the town screen where you build other dwellings.  The "cost" of using a caravan is that the armies involved are unavailable to you while going to the new town.  (On the screen shot I saw, cost for a caravan was, I am pretty sure, 4000 gold + 10 wood.  I also feel that you should need the building on BOTH ends to send troops)

OK, a few more things NOT known, just thought about

Fog of war:  We will still have the shroud, but areas that have been explored will be somewhat grayed out unless we have a presence there.  Grayed out areas will not show us any enemy movements.  Is this going to be like in heroes 3 the things that we can still see inside enemy's cover of darkness?  So we could still see who came to take our mines?

Mines:  I for one, am glad that mines will not run out of resources.  From what I have seen, it looks like you will need gold and wood to build a mine.  I was wondering if this applied only to "precious" resources as it would be sort of hard to get the wood to build a "wood mine".  My feeling is that wood and ore will be the old way, while the others (including gold) will be the new way.  Of course, you could also put prebuilt mines in with the map editor if you don't like this.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread, and I wish I had had the chance to read the "lost" posts here.
____________
If you learn so much by losing, why am I so dumb?

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Linkki
Linkki


Adventuring Hero
posted January 24, 2002 07:42 PM

The info I have also indicates, that most mines come up pre-build as before, but suitable mine spots that have to have mines built exist also. I too am happy that mines will not run out of resources.

The fog of war works pretty much like in RTS games. Watchtowers owned by yourself work like castles, removing the fog of war.

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Myste
Myste


Adventuring Hero
Reality Impaired
posted January 25, 2002 02:06 AM

I like it how you have to build a mine. I mean come on since when are you going to find a fully-functional mine in the desert?

I like the fog of war idea and i LOVE the caravan idea. It will make it easier to transport creatures. But do caravans have the ability to fight, cast spells and travel on the sea?

<Myste>
____________
'The Eyes He Posses Can Watch The World'

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Linkki
Linkki


Adventuring Hero
posted January 25, 2002 09:37 AM

I think that caravan's cannot engage in battle.

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ThE_HyDrA
ThE_HyDrA


Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
posted January 25, 2002 09:37 AM
Edited By: ThE_HyDrA on 26 Jan 2002

Caravans, Mines, and other Adventure Map Issues!

Great information, worthy of some discussion...

Mines and Exhaustion

"Mines cannot be exhausted, unlike some have thought they could. They still have unlimited supply. Exhausted mines exist in the game, but they are created by the mapmaker, they do NOT get created during a game. This info is confirmed."

Hmmmm... I think that it could work both ways, and 3DO may have had similar feelings, since they have put exhaustable and inexaustable mines in the game. It wouldn't make sense for a mine to run out in 1 week, what more feasible is 3 months or so, and if you're a good player, and you've chosen a small map, you won't get that far on in time.

"you will need gold and wood to build a mine"

This seems reasonable enough, as Myste said here, that there is a one in 1,000,000 chance you are going to find a mine that produces crystal in the desert, or the snow for that matter. Whats more feasible is to find an oil rig in the desert. Wood could still probably be used to build a wood mine, since it would be the same as using gold to build a gold mine, so there is no problem that I can see. A wise choice would be to construct mines with the resources you begin with and work from there.
I had heard 'somewhere' that when one finds a loose resource on the ground, for it to contribute to your inventory of resources, it needs to be developed, and a mine must be built. What happens if the resource is in the middle of the map? Its simple, one would probably get the choice on where he/she would want to place the mine, and it would probably have to be against a hillside or a forest.

Caravans:

"I am pretty sure, 4000 gold + 10 wood. I also feel that you should need the building on BOTH ends to send troops)"

I thought so... How can such a prize element not come at a price? A single caravan costs 4,000 gold + 10 wood sounds quite reasonable, as I'd expect you'd get many trips on it, as it can be sent back and forth. Yes, our feelings are  uninanimous, I think that in order to accept a caravan into the castle, you would need a caravan structure at the other.

"But do caravans have the ability to fight, cast spells and travel on the sea?"

No, caravans cannot be involved in any kind of physical contact, and are 'invisible' to the oppoent/s. Caravans are a mean of transport, not a hero, or a creature which has the capability of casting spells, but I wouldn't think that spellcasting creatures would be allowed to cast spells in a caravan. And for your last question, I highly doubt that caravans can travel over land. As I do believe that slot is filled quite comfortably by boats and ships. Bringing the topic of boats and ships up, I wonder if there will be better ships that can cover distance faster?? This would also contribute to the extra-importance of navigation.

Fog of War:

"s this going to be like in heroes 3 the things that we can still see inside enemy's cover of darkness? So we could still see who came to take our mines? "

I think a 'presence' is defined by a castle or a watchtower or a hero and army. If we will not be able to see anything without a presence there, it would induce onto us the greater usefulness of having more heroes, and constructing more watchtowers. Mayeb there could be a skill, 'mapping' where as the hero makes the land that has been explored visible, just like the previous Heroes games. Any how, more watchtowers and armies will be needed to make sure everything is in order, and nothing untoward is happening to ones property.

Undulations:

Another feature that I may or may not have mentioned is undulations, that are used to house the greatest of castles and watchtowers, so they are more out of reach. But the more one sees, the more another sees of you. I would think there would be a movement penalty for moving up and down hills, wouldn't you think?

New Event Buildings:

There is a huge possibility in this field. Palaces, chapels, Bastions, and Cathedrals could be some of the new ones that are associated with Haven. While the deadly Asylum would have buildings like: Dragon Caves, Fire City, Black Merchant, and many other obscure structures.... Not only this, but with the expanded possibilities of things to enhance on creatures and heroes, a wider range of buildings and special events will be possible. These may actually have much to say about the outcome of the game. One must adapt to the surroundings and use them as best possbible.

Great discussions, keep it up!

____________
"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.Ē

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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted January 26, 2002 07:35 AM

Excavating

Heroes could dig their way from surface to underground creating a new Subterranean Gate. Or vice versa. Excavating shouldn't be possible without large army. Larger the army the less time excavating takes (lets say that minimum is one week).  This could help greatly if your main hero gots trapped. Excavating shouldn't be available in some maps thought, if map maker decides it so.
____________

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Linkki
Linkki


Adventuring Hero
posted January 26, 2002 12:34 PM
Edited By: Linkki on 27 Jan 2002

Excavating, watchtowers:

I don't believe you can edit the map during the game as much as to create a subterranean gate. I'm not that sure if you can actually build watchtowers, either, unless you meant the watchtowers in towns.

New Event Buildings:

We can only guess about the new buildings, but surely there will be a lot of them. Apart from new event items, looking at the screenshots one can notice, that there are also a LOT of new types of obstacles etc. to make the adventure map look way more beautiful and detailed. For example, in the lava ground there's a lot of different burnt houses to place.

Movement, ships, sight:

I'm not that sure if moving up or down the hills will affect the number of movement points spent. It's pretty much 50-50 if they have implemented that. What I do think the hills could do, is affect how far the hero can see due to that direction, so that (s)he had to climb on top of the hill to see behind it. A certain thing is, that you can't see past mountains.
There may or may not be different kind of ships (pirate?), but the main factor in sea movement is propably the seamanship skill. I don't really like this skill, as I'd prefer logistics to cover both land and sea. But who am I to judge before I've tried the game.
I'm in the same line in the mines situation. I don't think they will uncover the fog of war. It might be possible though, that they would uncover the entrance to the mine, so that if someone conquered it, you'd notice.

Caravans:

I believe that after built, caravans can be used as many times as you wish, since it still is just a form of non-instant transportation from one town to another. I'm not certain that you need one in both ends, since caravans don't need a station to unload, they're just a group of people moving. Still, that is possible.

Mines:

Now read this carefully; they haven't put -exhaustable- mines into the game, only -exhausted-! So not a single mine can become exhausted during the game in Heroes IV, the same way it has been earlier. As far as I know, there are four types of mines in HoMM4:
- Pre-build mines (cannot be exhausted)
- Exhausted mines (event item?)
- Buildable mine locations (once built, cannot be exhausted)
- Mines proteced by monsters (once conquered, cannot be exhausted)

The pre-built mines found in different locations could be once prosperous mines that were attacked by monsters, after which left abandoned. It might also got too hot or cold for the miners to work if some are found in deserts or glaciers. Anyhow, it is confirmed that there are pre-built mines in the game.
By my knowledge, the loose resources work as they did in the earlier heroes series.

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AncientOne
AncientOne


Hired Hero
posted January 27, 2002 06:17 AM

Hmmm...

I have to say this much... this post started out describing things that actually exist in the game, based on the previews I've seen. Why Hydra didn't just link to previews, or the sources of his info, I don't know. But... since then, it seems that people are getting less and less concrete. Notice the use of the words "maybe" and "I think" in posts. In one respect, Camelnor was right. As far as I can tell, he was encouraging people not to get so worked up about rumors that they were confused when the game actually came out. There's nothing wrong with discussing your ideas... but I'd like to encourage people to cite sources for their thoughts about the topic of discussion. If you get your ideas from a screenshot, give a link to the shot, and explain your thought. That'll at least allow us to have some idea of what each person's input is worth.

That being said, here are a couple sites that I've checked out for info about HoMM4:
http://www.3do.com/mightandmagic/heroes4/intro.html
(DUH)

http://www.mmportals.com/heroes4.html
AND
http://www.mmportals.com/h4news.html

http://www.strategyplanet.com/homm/faq.shtml

http://www.bestsitez.com/aoh/heroes4/

http://www.heroes3.tmfweb.nl

http://www.astralwizard.com/heroes4/h4gusint.htm

I got most of these from just searching "HoMM4" on the net... so it's not THAT hard to cite your info. Once again... why am I being anal about this? Because it allows us to judge how valuable your info actually is. I personally can wait two months for the game, as Camelnor suggested--I'm not going to burst--but I'm here for curiosity. I'd rather have my curiosity filled with valifiable info rather than rumor.

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Myste
Myste


Adventuring Hero
Reality Impaired
posted January 27, 2002 09:43 AM

You got that right - gimme the good old true facts not rumors that people might want.

<Myste>
____________
'The Eyes He Posses Can Watch The World'

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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted January 27, 2002 10:32 AM bonus applied.

A few replies:

Map editing:
Editing during the game, no. You can change the map by scripted events, but these have to be in play when you start the game.

Hills/slopes/walls:
Hills and slopes may force non-flying creatures to take one longer circuit way, while allowing flying creatures to take a much faster way. Many map objects may be traversable by flyers but not by walkers.

Fog of War:
My thoughts are... If you can flag it, it dispels FoW around it. The radius of dispel and what you can see in that radius may vary depending on the flagged object. A town will give better benefits than a mine.

Caravans:
They should never be visible on the adventure map. They don't count as an army, therefore you cannot stop along the way and do things. Caravans always go directly to the target. This means you've lost the use of the creature for the time it takes to move them, on the other hand they cannot be attacked and they don't take up one of your eight slots for wandering armies.


The Altar of Wishes is not only a forum for discussing facts about heroes 4. It's main purpose is to propose wishes on how you think it should work, which is not necessarily the way it currently works according to interviews.

Lately, I've noticed that many things seems to have changed since the early interviews and indeed even from recent ones. The words 'maybe' and 'think' are overall permissible on this forum. It's certainly allowed to wish and speculate about heroes IV on this forum.

It's not a bad idea to cite information, especially if you specualte on actual information we have receieved. However, if the discussion is about something you wish for or want to change, then citing is not all that necessary.

____________
"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"

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