|
| Thread: Free Cities faction RELOAD | |
|
watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
|
posted February 16, 2010 05:41 PM |
|
|
Free Cities faction RELOAD
Once upon a time I had a thread - "a complex and improved version of an older idea" which can still be checked out for anyone interested.
But with the passing of some time (years) I started to have a different approach toward this might be faction, so among the things I'd like to change are:
- enemies: following the storyline of Dark Messiah when Stonehelm is almost completely destroyed by the undead, it seems logical that they should be the faction which is most hated; something like revenge for the ones who have been slain kind of relation. On the other side from Heresh' point of view Stonehelm and his inhabitants were nothing more than a way to achieve the greater good - killing the DM,stopping him from releasing Kha-Beleth etc. The holy griffin/unicorn empire should also be on the black list for reasons that are known from the history of Ashan and therefore is no need to repeat them here. Also reading Vittorio's biography we learn that there were in recent times numerous skirmishes with the free cities from where we can conclude on 2 things:
1) the relations with the Empire are still bad
2) The free cities have great fortifications since Vittorio's siege capabilities were polished by those conflicts.
- troops: a major redone is needed
From DM we see in stone helm - statues of giant falcons as a symbol of its first king/emperor (this is a nice reason to put rocs in as a tier 4 or 5 unit); statues of a silver dragon which certainly is Sylath/Ylath (which ever is the final choice UBI makes), his children most likely will be the tier 7 unit; human swordmen, priests and mages( which raises a couple of problem since these are similar to some haven units; scratch out the hobbits, they just don't seem to fit in;
-campaign : this should be about the cities strugling to have a sense of unity, and their place in the Ashan world, with main contagonists in the Empire and Heresh; also maybe a look upon the demon cultist population. If Sareth unleashes Kha-Beleth than also them participating in the "save the world" scenario and how they manage to settle their difference with other factions. The main protagonist may be from the falcon bloodline.
General concept - it should be a defensive type faction with a mixture of slow tanky units and swift fragile ones.
More will continue as I figure it out...
____________
|
|
War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
|
|
posted February 17, 2010 11:19 AM |
|
|
I'm quite looking forward to your ideas, as they seem pretty wel funded. However I have a few things to say as well. Some are weaker points in your ideas, whereas others are tips. Either way do not feel discouraged to do what it is you whish to do.
Quote:
enemies: following the storyline of Dark Messiah when Stonehelm is almost completely destroyed by the undead, it seems logical that they should be the faction which is most hated; something like revenge for the ones who have been slain kind of relation. On the other side from Heresh' point of view Stonehelm and his inhabitants were nothing more than a way to achieve the greater good - killing the DM,stopping him from releasing Kha-Beleth etc. The holy griffin/unicorn empire should also be on the black list for reasons that are known from the history of Ashan and therefore is no need to repeat them here. Also reading Vittorio's biography we learn that there were in recent times numerous skirmishes with the free cities from where we can conclude on 2 things:
With this, keep in mind that there is a gap between HoMMV(+ expansions) and DMoMM. Approximately 20-something years pass between the ending of HoMMV and DMoMM, since Sareth is in his early twenties in the game. So in that space of time relations may or may not have improved. However you are right that relations between the Free Cities and the Empire have never been that good. As for the Free Cities not liking the Necromancers, that depends on how the relations between the Cities were. If the other Cities weren't fond of Stonehelm and/or it's rulers, they may not have cared much for its destruction or even cheered it, because it rid them of an enemy/competitor.
Quote:
The free cities have great fortifications since Vittorio's siege capabilities were polished by those conflicts.
While this is true, it bears to mind that as independant cities they are targets for raiders. It does not bring the wrath of entire faction on the raiders if one raides an independant. So as a result of this the Cities must have had ways to fortify and defend themselves.
Quote:
this should be about the cities strugling to have a sense of unity, and their place in the Ashan world
This is a nice idea. I've always played with the idea of giving the Free Cities a Roman/Greek theme. As small states that are independantly governed by their people, but who are eventually forced to unite under a strong leader to ensure their survival.
Quote:
The main protagonist may be from the falcon bloodline
I have to point out here that this is impossible as the Demons have destoyed the enitre Falcon Dynasty 834 YSD, in a war that was dubbed Falcon's Last Flight
Quote:
From DM we see in stone helm - statues of giant falcons as a symbol of its first king/emperor (this is a nice reason to put rocs in as a tier 4 or 5 unit); statues of a silver dragon which certainly is Sylath/Ylath (which ever is the final choice UBI makes), his children most likely will be the tier 7 unit; human swordmen, priests and mages( which raises a couple of problem since these are similar to some haven units; scratch out the hobbits, they just don't seem to fit in;
I agree with many things here. The inclusion of Rocs is certainly a nice idea. Perhaps as a form of flying cavalry: Heavily Armoured men riding Rocs into battle.
It is also very plausible that Silver/Air Dragons are it's final tier. (Personally I think it is Sylath and not Ylath, that was probably a slip of the tongue or a mistranslation)
I also agree that the Stonehelm Guards are a nice foundation for a unit. And if I may give a tip, it may be a good idea to base them more on Roman Legionairs ot distinguish them from Haven's Footmen/Squires. As in making them soldiers with somewhat lighter armoured but more mobile swordsmen armed with a lagre shield and a Gladius.
Lastly I agree that you should not include Hobbits/Halflings. As you said they do not realy fit in and secondly there is no reason to assume their existance in Ashan.
Quote:
General concept - it should be a defensive type faction with a mixture of slow tanky units and swift fragile ones.
I do not think that this may be a good idea, mainly because this is already sort of the thing Haven has going for it.
If you do decide to go with Silver Dragons and Rocs, you have to hardhitting flyers. I think a mix of numerous but fragile shooters and solid but dispensalble melee units would work well with them.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
|
|
watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
|
|
posted February 17, 2010 01:32 PM |
|
|
thanks for your ideas, I also have some points to say
Quote:
With this, keep in mind that there is a gap between HoMMV(+ expansions) and DMoMM. Approximately 20-something years pass between the ending of HoMMV and DMoMM, since Sareth is in his early twenties in the game. So in that space of time relations may or may not have improved. However you are right that relations between the Free Cities and the Empire have never been that good. As for the Free Cities not liking the Necromancers, that depends on how the relations between the Cities were. If the other Cities weren't fond of Stonehelm and/or it's rulers, they may not have cared much for its destruction or even cheered it, because it rid them of an enemy/competitor.
It says somewhere in Ashan lore that at the point in time where HOMMV takes place the Free Cities ar not yet unitied enough to form a faction.
So, I used the destruction of stonehelm as a deciding factor and a catalyst to form these faction seeing the external threat. If HOMMVI takes place during the 20 or so years before DM than I don't see how this faction can make it into the game.
Quote:
I've always played with the idea of giving the Free Cities a Roman/Greek theme. As small states that are independantly governed by their people, but who are eventually forced to unite under a strong leader to ensure their survival.
I would've liked a greek based town too, but since in DM it doesn't look at all like one, I try to avoid this hypothesis since I'm trying to make a faction which can be similar to what it will end up being.
Quote:
I have to point out here that this is impossible as the Demons have destoyed the enitre Falcon Dynasty 834 YSD, in a war that was dubbed Falcon's Last Flight
Actually there are descendants in the Greyhound dutchy - Isabel is one of theme e.g. - the last daughter of a forlorn( don't know the word how it spells) line
Quote:
I do not think that this may be a good idea, mainly because this is already sort of the thing Haven has going for it.
If you do decide to go with Silver Dragons and Rocs, you have to hardhitting flyers. I think a mix of numerous but fragile shooters and solid but dispensalble melee units would work well with them.
With this I completely agree.
I'm thinking as particuliar thing for this nation as:
- greater income than other factions ( being renowned for their trade)
- strong fortifications ( something like the dwarves have)
- I really like the fact that they chose to remain loyal to their dragon, not like the Haven faction so I'd like to make this as a faction bonus somehow
- fragile, swift flyers with good damage mixed with costly but strong first tier units;
- I'm thinking guildmaster with their hero class which would be based on greater income, increased unit production, and maybe something like bribe(you can bribe according to level enemy units to flee or join your side); as a first attribute maybe defense and the second spellpower;
- also as mid tier unit I'm thinking as putting a beastman of some sort (slave trade)maybe an ogre or a troll.
These are my thoughts for now.
____________
|
|
Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
|
|
posted February 17, 2010 02:21 PM |
|
|
Quote:
With this, keep in mind that there is a gap between HoMMV(+ expansions) and DMoMM. Approximately 20-something years pass between the ending of HoMMV and DMoMM, since Sareth is in his early twenties in the game.
H5 - 969 YSD
DM - 989 YSD
Quote:
(Personally I think it is Sylath and not Ylath, that was probably a slip of the tongue or a mistranslation)
A slip of the tongue enduring through an entire game? A mistranslation from the native-English speaker who wrote the Heroes V and DM scripts? 
____________
"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
|
|
War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
|
|
posted February 17, 2010 03:20 PM |
|
|
Quote:
It says somewhere in Ashan lore that at the point in time where HOMMV takes place the Free Cities ar not yet unitied enough to form a faction.
So, I used the destruction of stonehelm as a deciding factor and a catalyst to form these faction seeing the external threat. If HOMMVI takes place during the 20 or so years before DM than I don't see how this faction can make it into the game.
That sounds reasonable. Which still did not mean that they have had to like the Stonehelmers.
Quote:
I would've liked a greek based town too, but since in DM it doesn't look at all like one, I try to avoid this hypothesis since I'm trying to make a faction which can be similar to what it will end up being.
That's true, the city looks more a cross between Frankish and Norse architecture. But still the city-states operate more or less like the ones of Ancient Greece, with each state being governed serperately and being defended by it's own militia. So in the end there should be no reason not to use several elements of that concept.
Quote:
Actually there are descendants in the Greyhound dutchy - Isabel is one of theme e.g. - the last daughter of a forlorn( don't know the word how it spells) line
I'd like to know where you've found this info. As far as I can tell, the only one that is remotely related to the Lost Falcon Dynasty, is Duncan of the Stag Duchy, whose bio implies that the Stag Dukes are of a branchfamily of the Falcons, but who have no claim to the throne.
Quote:
I'm thinking as particuliar thing for this nation as:
- greater income than other factions ( being renowned for their trade)
- strong fortifications ( something like the dwarves have)
- I really like the fact that they chose to remain loyal to their dragon, not like the Haven faction so I'd like to make this as a faction bonus somehow
- fragile, swift flyers with good damage mixed with costly but strong first tier units;
- I'm thinking guildmaster with their hero class which would be based on greater income, increased unit production, and maybe something like bribe(you can bribe according to level enemy units to flee or join your side); as a first attribute maybe defense and the second spellpower;
- also as mid tier unit I'm thinking as putting a beastman of some sort (slave trade)maybe an ogre or a troll.
These are my thoughts for now.
Greater income and Stronger defences would work.
I'm not so sure about their loyalty to their dragon though, most of Ashan's factions are rather zealous in their religions, so that's not so special.
As for fragile and swift flyers, I imagined the Dragons and Rocs as rather sturdy flyers.
Beastmen could work, if you could give a good explaination of their existance. Slavetrade is something the Orcs already do, so that may not be the best of ideas.
Lastly, I'm not sure if a Guildmaster is such a great hero. It strikes me as odd that they put a Merchant as the commander of their armies. Perhaps a Mercenary or a Magic Hero would suit them better.
Quote:
H5 - 969 YSD
DM - 989 YSD
At the least. Seeing as Sareth's excact age and date of birth are never specificall mentioned.
Quote:
A slip of the tongue enduring through an entire game? A mistranslation from the native-English speaker who wrote the Heroes V and DM scripts?
(S)ylath is only mentioned a couple of times and this game is the only one that does it in this manner. That beggs the question why, I still think it is an error.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
|
|
Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
|
|
posted February 17, 2010 03:37 PM |
|
Edited by Cepheus at 15:38, 17 Feb 2010.
|
Quote:
At the least.
No, it's "fact":
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=28702
Quote:
(S)ylath is only mentioned a couple of times and this game is the only one that does it in this manner. That beggs the question why, I still think it is an error.
Nope. Point me to a single official source (games inclusive, interviews inclusive, Heroes V prerelease non-inclusive) where the name "Sylath" crops up. Believe me. I've searched.
____________
"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
|
|
archwarl0ck
Adventuring Hero
Dank memesiah
|
|
posted February 17, 2010 03:50 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I have to point out here that this is impossible as the Demons have destoyed the enitre Falcon Dynasty 834 YSD, in a war that was dubbed Falcon's Last Flight
If we trust a single mission in the original H5, the queen had a son named Brendan (or at least it's how I've got it written) survived the demon attack.
The text for the scene is in the original texts.pak, I haven't that found in in the ToE files.
DialogScenes\Single\SS2\R3A2\DialogSceneIsabell-1-0.txt
Also, I really don't know about having a second human faction. Yes, we have Academy, but thier army has only one human and lots of magical\conjured beings. But I would like having the Free Cities as a less religiously fanatical faction since Haven has become one, which would be a counter\opposition and a theme in their relations with Haven. What do you think?
____________
I have a knack for perceiving things - I can see how it sounds, I can feel how it sings
|
|
War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
|
|
posted February 17, 2010 05:31 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Nope. Point me to a single official source (games inclusive, interviews inclusive, Heroes V prerelease non-inclusive) where the name "Sylath" crops up. Believe me. I've searched.
Try the Official timeline.
48 YSD. The Falcon Empire Becomes the 'Holy Falcon Empire' Founding of the Free Cities of the East Emperor Brian Falcon gives absolute power to the Church of the Dragon of Light. The Human kingdom is renamed "Holy Falcon Empire". Dissent grows among many citizens who resent being forced to abandon their faith in Sylath. Many will leave the Empire's territory to found the Free Cities of the East.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
|
|
Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
|
|
posted February 17, 2010 08:57 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Try the Official timeline.
Quote:
Heroes V prerelease non-inclusive
____________
"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
|
|
watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
|
|
posted February 18, 2010 11:24 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I'd like to know where you've found this info. As far as I can tell, the only one that is remotely related to the Lost Falcon Dynasty, is Duncan of the Stag Duchy, whose bio implies that the Stag Dukes are of a branchfamily of the Falcons, but who have no claim to the throne.
one source would be the opening of the DM with the prophecy and a second one I've found a mention of this somwhere in Ashan lore I'm not sure where exactly
concerning units (just on the rough):
1) Guards (sturdy and expensive,25% chance to evade ranged attack)
2) Harpies ( flyer, fast, 20% chance to evade ranged attack) - I decided to drop the strike and return since bloodfuries have it
3) Haleberdier (good hp, first strike)
4) Rocs (fast, high hp, medium damage, 20% chance to stun)
5) Sorcerer (ice bolt, magic immunity,confuse, ranged, low hp)
6) Fanatic ( two attack, no retalition, good hp) aka crusader from HoMM4
7) Silver Dragons (ultra fast, very high initiative,low hp, good damage, no retaliation, first strike)
____________
|
|
MattII
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted February 18, 2010 07:57 PM |
|
|
|
Seems like a weird lineup to be given the natural alignments of some of those units would appear to be in direct opposition to others.
|
|
watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
|
|
posted February 19, 2010 07:17 AM |
|
|
alignments are in heroes 4, not in the other games where creatures have constanly shifted from one town to another
e.g. centaur - homm1,2 in dungeon; homm3 in sylvan/rampart; homm4,5 - stronghold
griffin - homm1,2 dungeon, homm3,5 - haven; homm4 - sylvan
etc
this faction if UBI decides to create it in homm6 is different from the other 8 in hommv or the naga faction because it's made of bits and pieces (remnants of all sort) not like the others who have a deep sense of unity.
Maybe Ubi decides to play a bit with the factions in homm6, borrowing units one from another or merging or splitting them.
____________
|
|
Berny-mac
Promising
Legendary Hero
Lord Vader
|
|
posted February 23, 2010 09:19 PM |
|
|
Maybe instead of having the Free Cities be definitely Norse style or definitely Greek style or something, why not just incorporate them both?
____________
Skyrim RP? YES!
Here it is!
|
| |
|
|
