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Heroes Community > Turban Tribunal > Thread: Maybe we should consider changing the maximum post limit outside VW?
Thread: Maybe we should consider changing the maximum post limit outside VW? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV
TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted February 24, 2010 05:36 PM

Quote:
Showing that raising the limit right now won't prove anything in the long run and when things change it might end up hurting us more than it ever helped us.
Personally I think there should be an amount of "posts" or "reputation" rather than QPs for removing this post limit. And people who spam to get there will not get a positive reputation, so the 20-post-limit will not get lifted. But having "quality posts" affect the posting of future number of posts is ridiculous.

Quote:
The system is fine how it is and it's always the same thing with members who don't have the the amount of QP's to bypass the limit. I was the exact same back in the day.
Yes you were back in the day, not still are.
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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's backside
posted February 24, 2010 08:26 PM

@TheDeath
First of all, QP stands for quality point not quality post as someone suggested. Which means (as has been mentioned before several times) that a member who has been contributing for a long time deserves the QP just as much as someone who made one awesome post. The mods know that and act accordingly. So QPs are exactly the "reputation" system you're talking about.
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geny is a meanie - fred79

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ohforfsake
ohforfsake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted February 24, 2010 08:37 PM

You know Geny, you might be right, but I would then claim it is not working properly enough as of yet, at least in the regard to how long time there should go. Look at Shares, he's been here for over 2 years and haven't got any yet. I'd say 2 years is quite an impressive and long time someone would use on a forum. He doesn't seem like the guy who would go on a spam frenzy or anything. Yet he has not got this limit removed. How long should there go before the limit gets removed? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years?

Though I'd prefer an automatic process to be honest. After all, qp's are still a subjective measure, eventhough the entire community can contribute, it is still subjective. Whereas the amount of posts you can make is not really related to such a subjective measure in my opinion. Setting a set time makes it objective, and in my opinion okay, if that time is reasonable.
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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's backside
posted February 24, 2010 09:29 PM

When human interaction is involved most things are subjective. The limit is here to encourage people to post in a "good" way and prevent them from posting in a "bad" way. Good and bad are subjective terms which are defined by the community. When a member posts in a "good" way the community recognizes it by giving him QPs and lifting the limit off of him regardless of whether he's been here three years or three days. Yes, the community, not the moderators. That's what we have the feedback threads for. So, yeah, it's all subjective, but it's all subjective for the same reason - the well being of the community, and from the same point of view - the point of view of the community.
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geny is a meanie - fred79

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ohforfsake
ohforfsake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted March 10, 2010 10:32 AM
Edited by ohforfsake at 10:35, 10 Mar 2010.

Okay, seems like I got it wrong.

Quote:
Quality Points are given to the posts, not to the people and I'm sure as hell that moderators do not give QP's based upon who makes the post. Maybe I should be given another QP since I've now been here for 4 years or so?


However, i this is correct, should we not then change the affects of quality points to not affect the posters of the community and the posts in stead?

After all, people like carcity and shares probably aren't going to spam this place completely up if they get their 20 posts pr. day outside vw limit removed. I think everyone would agree on that, having seen these people here for so long. The same goes probably with others as well.

I know the system as it is now does not limit that many, and not that often, but it is still unnecessary limit if you ask me. Would it not be much better to change the way the 20 limit post works, to in stead of being dependent of quality point, let it be dependent of time active and total posts.

That is, if you have both been here for a randomly choosen period of time and have got over a certain post mark, without showing sign of spamming (that is your post pr. day is not absurd high), then I think the 20 post pr. day limit should be removed.

Yes it won't change much, because only a few people have this problem, but that should be enough reason to change it in the first place.

About when HoMMVI gets released and the effects it has on the community, then I think it'd be pretty much the same effect.

That is, with the current rule, we'd reduce the risk of spammers. With what I suggest we'd have the same reduction of the risk of spammers.

Simply because anyone can in theory make a few super good dedicated posts and then start spamming. Likewise can anyone in theory use the time required to get outside the 20 posts outside vw limit as I suggest to then change into a spammer. However remember, the current method depends a lot on knowledge, whereas my method depends on patience. That is, for the current method, some people can easy spamming, with my method, everyone have to go through the same. It is just a matter of placing the line where no one will find it worth waiting for, and if they did it would be a minor concern. Whereas now, you could imagine someone posting a couple of very good posts, start spamming and continue that, just if they've enough knowledge to do so.

Edit: I think my point can be summed up to this: "The "punishment" should fit the crime".

That is, it does not make much sense to try to help an aspiring criminal back into society by putting him in with a lot of other criminals where he gets negative reinforcement.
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Mytical
Mytical


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Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted March 10, 2010 10:43 AM

I think you are looking at it wrong.  The 20 post limit, and qp bonuses were implimented as incentives.  Incentives for people to think before they post, and to post higher quality posts in general in order to get that limit removed.  While somebody whos been here awhile, and not shown troll like behavior (note there is decent and bad spam..trolls do the bad type spam) would probably NOT flood the place with horrible posts, that is beside the point.  Length of time on the forum does not matter..they could easily get frustrated/angry/bored and start trolling even if they have been here 20 years.

So instead of seeing the 20 post limit and qp as hinderences, look at them as incentives to think pefore you post, and make better posts that contribute to the positive side of HC.
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ohforfsake
ohforfsake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted March 10, 2010 11:05 AM

I understand your argument, but I think it is the wrong way to look at it.

To me, it is like the state, who wants to enforce certain behavior and therefore creates unequality in society, knowing people would search for most money, etc. An example of such could be the benefits of marriage.

I think it is the wrong approach, trying to force people to act another way then they want, probably only limits them, doesn't make them think that extra time before posting. I know I don't, and I am not going to change ways, because it seems unnecessary. As long as it seems unnecessary, to me, that system is the enemy, not something I am going to adjust to.

The correct way in my opinion, is to take a stance based on arguments and make that stance available to other people. Convincing arguments would make me change ways, not trying to do it by force. It is an important difference in my opinion.

About your 20 years example. I think we should look at it in the big perspective. 20 years of being a good poster, then something like a day of spam depending on how active the moderators are, really seem like a good trade off in my opinion. After all, after the spam attack, I am pretty certain said poster would get a new posting limit, which would take another X amount of time and posts without going over a certain post/time to get.

So yes, I understand it would never remove the risk of spam, to do that I think another type of thread structure and mentality (or should I say, definition of spam) is required.

Btw. it says I have posted 27 posts the last 24 hours, how come I can post here??
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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted March 10, 2010 11:14 AM

It doesn't count any posts in the VW now.  Though it use to.  You can post as many as you like in the VW, even after the 20 'normal' area posts.

If you choose to see the system as an enemy, that is fine.  I've never been one to be within the constraints of society myself.  Society is not going to change the rules just because you do not like them however.  See, regardless if you have a million posts or 20 is besides the point really.  It is what you do with those posts.

Right now, you have unlimted posts..20 in areas outside of VW, and as many as you want within VW.  The place where SPAM is supposed to be delegated to.  While even I had times (when I was bound by the 20 posts) that I would have liked to post more .. at the time the VW counted..and I often found that a lot of my posts were there..making me ask myself...is that post really needed?

Yeah, people are going to complain..and people are going to want to post more.  Some people are not going to like the system.  Change, don't change...it ends up the same.  Believe me I am one of the Anarchist.  I am not fond of all the rules.  I do sympathise, but in the end it does tend to make the forum a better place.
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MacMasterMC
MacMasterMC


Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
posted May 13, 2011 02:30 PM

[To Ohfor] I can really relate to what you said. However. I have to agree with Mytical. I know I am a relatively new member, all of about a week or so. I know I have been told several times by different members I should be able to post more, and that a number of people here are enjoying my posts. I was even nearly hitting the post limit a few days back, and so kinda stayed back a bit, which was kind of a shame, as I was having a good discussion in a thread about people changing. That is how the system is designed though. Not only does it help to limit spam on all of these forums aside from the wastelands, it is designed, like Mytical and others were saying, to keep posts aiming for quality, not quantity. Yeah, it makes it tough to keep up a conversation when several people post, and you have to use edits or end up unable to post. I know that personally. And it is rough when you are attempting to maintain a thread (like the choose your own adventure thread I am hosting) at the same time, much less wanting to participate in any given thread beyond a single comment, which more often than not could be considered spam. What I see, though, is that if people really want to hear more from me, and what I think, after reading any given post of mine, that posts they think are insightful, funny, or possessing any of the other good qualities that QPs are usually given to, that they would recommend that a post be given a QP. Beyond that, or a mod particularly liking a post I make, I get 20 posts a day. And that is ok. Even if kinda difficult to deal with. We all agreed to the way that these forums are setup when we accepted the terms and created our accounts. If I really like something someone posts, then I will recommend that they get a QP as well. And if I use a post of my 20 to do that, then whomever I nominated for one should really appreciate that, as I then have fewer posts left that day. It is quite a system, where other users can actually show their appreciation for other users by recommending them for QPs. It takes a great deal of weight off of the mod's shoulders, and from what I have seen, it is a good thing, as they have a lot of things to handle.

Kinda a long post, but just my two cents.
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