|
| Thread: Free electricity |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
|
Carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
|
posted March 28, 2010 12:35 PM |
|
|
Fine then, I was wrong.
____________
Why can't you save anybody?
|
|
Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
|
|
posted March 28, 2010 01:29 PM |
|
Edited by Celfious at 13:41, 28 Mar 2010.
|
To mark an energy creating enough force to run itself and then some...
We can say its impossible sure but I personally do not feel it is.
Example take magnets on one side which are systematically designed to pull upwards. The weight of the chain that is already passed the magnets pulls the rest of it down until it ends up driving a generator. The chains must not be a complete circle however for reasons I wont go into. I am seeing it more possible for this to work if each portion of the chain were rotated in such a way that upon a certain part of the rotations another part is introduced to the next part of the upwards pull, while the lower portion is taken away from the one below.
Sure it is still driven by magnetic technology but it is more reliable than wind and stuff like that. And technically some of the power created by the generator could enhance the magneticity.
really im not seeing how this design is impossible to work out but even if it is then im still not seeing it logical to deny the possibility of a 'free energy'
the basis of this is to create a free driver.. A free momentum. Or at least a momentum driven by less force than the output actually provided.
|
|
Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
|
|
posted March 28, 2010 01:56 PM |
|
Edited by Celfious at 14:01, 28 Mar 2010.
|
allow me to post a very rough draft schematic.
It is not tweaked out with specific equations and the only joke part is that the fragments of the chain are not pac men looking. Of course the whole idea would need some work but this is the core idea.
The thing on the left would in the long run spin frequently and it would not be the only one. Could produce same result with various human bikers going at various speeds except these are magnets pulling up a weighted chain then it drops down.
I call it the pac man machine can i have my 200$
the computer regulator ensuring that pac mens are coming at the selected speed distributes some amount of energy to enhance the various section of the plants magnets. Ultimately the goal would be to have the magnets running on little to no production at all.
____________
What are you up to
|
|
Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
|
|
posted March 30, 2010 04:07 AM |
|
Edited by Celfious at 04:07, 30 Mar 2010.
|
plz criticize..
I also realize the possibility of moving magnets and or the portions of the chain itself.
|
|
Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted March 30, 2010 08:35 AM |
|
|
Um, why doesn't the Pacman stop at the first magnet?
Oh yea, you said something about momentum. Is this kind of like a swing set where you lift the swing on one side and let go, then it goes higher on the other side due to momentum? Neat trick.
(no fair getting on the swing and pumping, that's cheating)
____________
|
|
Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
|
|
posted March 30, 2010 09:00 AM |
|
Edited by Celfious at 09:12, 30 Mar 2010.
|
like i said the plans tweaking are not worked out but for something to move up this magnetic field as far as I can tell would require a movement of the field and/or the object which would probably have a configuration similar to... pacmans lowerjaw is reactive to something that pacmans upper jaw is against. As the field and object have some rotation it moves up. Really to draw it out would be complicated for me since I dont have specifics but take for example one basic magnet on the left on some sort of shaft and a series of magnets on the right side. If the chain of magnets repell the single magnet in an upwards motion then a movment of thei field will push the singular magnet up, then it would catch thenext part of the chain which would pull, as there is more momentum of the field to singular magnet connection the singular magnet would reach the point where it is no longer pulled up, but repelled upwards... etc. etc..
The chains objects that are pulled up probably would not be most efficient as a pacman shape but this is just to explain the concept. I would be surprised if it is original but I dont see how it couldnt work either. The actual production of electricity is mechanically seperate from the result of a system that basically lifts objects by use of magnetic fields (rotating or stationary)
They developed technology of shock absorbing very similarly to a video I have seen where two magnetic discs which repelled eachother were able to result in a spinning momentum with little to no friction with heavy weight. This alone makes me wonder why they dont cut on power source to drive the rotation of generators with this magnetic technology, if they do not already. But I know they do not in most places. This device had a lot of weight on it and really spins for a long time by itself.
But I guess the mainstream just relies on fuel and stuff right now.
anyways area of the magnetic flux direction to the position of the objects we want to raise up on this magnetic system may or may not require an actual rotation of the field and objects positions. I think it is easier to imagine and explain with the described movement though.
|
|
Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
|
|
posted March 30, 2010 01:17 PM |
|
Edited by Celfious at 13:19, 30 Mar 2010.
|
okay im not used to this internet stuff I guess since I do not understand why a live active discussion ceases for example when the moment something technically imaginable is mentioned.
is it to confusing?
is it doomed to failure?
is it logical?
bah, nvm
I am used to the results, just never understood how it was actually produced with all the mystery of silence. .
____________
What are you up to
|
|
Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
|
|
posted March 30, 2010 03:07 PM |
|
|
I'll come back later and make a real reply, with actual numbers and stuff, and not just post one of the universal laws of physics.
____________
|
|
Carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
|
|
posted March 30, 2010 03:25 PM |
|
|
Celf, for me this is too confusing, but from what I understand of it it seems like it can actually work.
When have you planned to do an experiment about it?
____________
Why can't you save anybody?
|
|
Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
|
|
posted March 31, 2010 05:51 AM |
|
|
no i have no plan to experiment with it.
im not born or in any situation where it would not take my lifes effort to do anything with any idea so i pretty much just hope someone else will.
____________
What are you up to
|
|
ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted March 31, 2010 06:12 AM |
|
|
To my understanding, energy is just a term defined for practical purpose and not something "real".
The point of conversation of energy, at least in mechanical systems, are a derived measure from newtons second law of motion.
One can measure that the product of mass and acceleration is what we would call a force. From this, one can derive that the total energy of a closed system is constant. However energy in itself is nothing one measures to my knowledge, if something travels past you, you don't measure its kinetic energy, but its speed and its mass and from that you can get its kinetic energy.
The point is, if any closed mechanical system would create or destroy energy, then it'd be a measure that goes against newtons laws of motion.
Also, after reading a bit of the tread, remember if no outside forces are in effect, one can sustain a given velocity infinite. It requires energy to get to a given velocity (acceleration, as it's a combinent of the change of energy), but unless there's some kind of friction or in general outside forces that "tries" to accelerate you and thereby change your velocity, whereby you'd have to produce an equal and opposite accelertaion (and thereby a force), you'd not have to use energy to substain a given velocity.
I often meet the confusion that velocity is connected with force, whereas it is actually the change of velocity, acceleration.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
|
|
posted March 31, 2010 07:47 AM |
|
|
i see what you mean but im not really thinking the more limited understanding or more precise definition of what is specified by the use of this term Energy is required or related to the production of a sepereat form of energy, 'electricity'
im not entirely sure where you are going with your concept and stuff oforf
im not really sure exactly what you mean when you say something close to energy is non existant and measured by speed and stuff..
The electrical theory is explained to be a theory in at least most electrical schools because the formulas only work for various purposes and match the results. We have our theories on what actually happens, with electrons and everything but really thats all bla bla.. blablablaaa
the main thing is electricity is derived however it is derived but thread maker is talking about the possibility of in lamens terms running a machine with but a fragment of its production. Running a system to produce electricity fueled somehow someway where the end result is more than what was required to produce it. IE: produces 10000 units and requires 500 to operate.
sorry i didn't see what youre implying by saying energy is non existent.
|
|
ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted March 31, 2010 02:00 PM |
|
|
Quote:
im not entirely sure where you are going with your concept and stuff oforf
Topic 1
Just that to my understanding, the term energy, is more of a theoretical concept than an actual existing physical thingy. Energy is an awesome tool, because stuff like systems, to my understanding, generally creates a gradient towards minimum energy, etc.
So I try to make it clear that if you break one rule of physics, such as the conservation of energy, it logically follows others rules are broken as well, as these are logically equivalent.
Topic 2
Also, to my understanding, due to quantum effects, energy can be created and destroyed over very short moments of time, which should be the reason of the evaporasion of black holes over time. That is, if two particles, that'll cancel out eachother, appears close to a black whole, it might happen that the black whole will grab one of the particles before they can cancel eachother out, which means radiation (the other particle) is send out from the black hole, whereby the black whole slowly evaporates.
Which should also be why, if one goes near a black hole, one would never get beyond the event horizon, as light gets more and more drawn by the black hole, but as you, in your initial system, sees light with the usual speed, time will in stead move quickly past, and at the moment you reach the event horizon, either infinite time will have passed, or, given the black hole evaporates, you'll be transported to a future where the black hole is completely gone.
For an observer outside the black holes forces, it will look like you're very slowly going towards the black holes event horizon (we're talking of billion of years, probably).
At least that's how I understood it.
Topic 3
Also, the whole thing about "we should conserve energy", is actually a talk about the quality of energy, or entropy more or less, which can be said to be the measure of energy availability.
Entropy increases globally, the second law of thermodynamics (and through which, I believe an excellent way to define time), which basicly means, that everythings energyavailability as time goes, gets more and more evened out, which I also believe is what is known as the big chill.
Though notice it's globally, in principe, I see nothing wrong with, that one, via transporting energy to the system, can lower entropy locally, in term of rising it even more at other location, thereby creating a global rise. If the universe turns out to be infinite (both in size and mass and the entire thing, not just the observable, which depends on for how long time observations (light) have been possible), then there's really no limit of what can happen, as one always can find an area sufficient large of which to increase entropy to make the following decrease at any other smaller area not go against the second law of thermo dynamics (basicly it means eternal energy).
However, as of now, our ressources are limited, and using energy (ressoruces) increases entropy, which in turn means that energy will be less and less available in the future.
Topic 4
About the idea of a machines that via wind generatse more energy than it uses, given no friction is present, then remember that we first should look at a closed system, as the idea of energy conversion only makes sense for closed systems, at least to me.
So as the system is closed, the wind used to drive the machine again, remember that if some wind goes through, then this wind is stil moving, ergo it still have kinetic energy levels, which have not been used.
As the thingy the wind hits turns around, the entire machinery must turn around, to produce the new wind, which can never be stronger than the level the wind reciever thingy turned around with, assuming it turns around with some rounds pr. second, etc.
That means, as less and less wind is taken advatange off, the machine goes slower and slower, resulting in finally stopping completely.
And that is given there's no friction in the machine itself.
Because remember, air, to speed these up, they'll resist being speeded up, leeding to newtons laws of motion and convsersion of energy, had they not resisting to speed up (a type of non machinery friction if you want), then sure, things would just spontanously move without anything effecting them.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
|
|
posted March 31, 2010 02:15 PM |
|
Edited by Shares at 14:28, 31 Mar 2010.
|
@Celfs machine: If I understood correctly it's a chain that's merged in both ends, so there are no ends on it. Correct? Then the magnets lifts the right side of the chain and the drops it down on the left side to make the "generator" spin. Correct? So is that natural magnets or is it electromagnets? If it's electromagnets; what powers them?
____________
|
|
Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
|
|
posted March 31, 2010 02:20 PM |
|
|
okay maybe you were talking to someone else then
im sorry i was talking about electricity if I used the word energy
i still have no idea what your ultimate point or direction is but im just gonna assume it has no relation to my crazy rabid old man ramblings about a magnetic flux driven system of electrical production that uses less energy resources than it produces.
yes i said energy but im not thinking of whatever imaginary stuff that does not exist yet we call it energy anyways that you refer to.
its simple, output = higher number than is required to operate the production thereby having an excess to support its own operation. Free electricity. Like thread title
____________
What are you up to
|
|
ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted March 31, 2010 02:23 PM |
|
|
Ah you thought I was questioning your conception/machine in your post in the top? 
That's a misunderstanding, I'm basicly talking no the basic level, trying to show carcity that there's probably something he missed. I haven't really gone through that post of yours, as I saw pac man faces on it and thought it was a joke post.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
|
|
posted March 31, 2010 02:27 PM |
|
Edited by Celfious at 14:27, 31 Mar 2010.
|
Shares
well the chain could be a complete circle but it would be senseless because there would need to be slack enough for portions of it to operate individually.
im slightly tired at the moment but just imagine some series of magnets on a right pole and some other randomly shaped object that slides up the left pole being moved by at sometimes attraction upwards, or being repelled upwards depending on its place and relation to the various fields of flux on the series of magnets on the right.
not sure if an actual motion is required of the magnet series on the right pole but it is easier to imagine the system when I think about simply how a magnet would react if it was repelled by another magnet, or of course attracted by one. but in this case both depending on postion and yadda yadda zzZZZzzzZZZzzz
____________
What are you up to
|
|
Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
|
|
posted March 31, 2010 02:35 PM |
|
|
Anyway, it will use an equal force to lift it up as the one you will gain from dropping them down. However, as the magnets help with the lifting, you would lower the cost, but that cost is not removed, it is only moved. You will instead lose useful energy when you have to pull out the links from the magnetic field, both when passing a magnet on the right side and lifting the chain, but also when passing the uppermost magnets and moving the chain to the left. Even when dropping the chain on the left side you would use useful energy. This process would only by then have a low efficency since it will charge up the magnets and make the chain more magnetic. Then adding the wheel on the left side would use up more of the useful energy. All in all, it would not create any useful energy. Rather the opposite.
Tweaking movement of the magnets wouldn't help, as that would also use up useful energy. The magnets are equally attracted to the chain as the chain is to the magnets. Moving the magnets would then be harder with the chain there.
In the end, energy put in will be lost to magnetically charge both the chain and the magnets, a small ammount of the energy put in would be absorbed by the wheel and made into electricity, it would take more energy to move the chain that it would produce. Then we can also add friction in air and places where the chain is fastened.
I could also post some number crunching if you like?
____________
|
|
Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
|
|
posted April 01, 2010 12:15 AM |
|
|
if a magnet is placed over another with positive to positive one will raise upwards. When attached to something to aim its direction straight upwards and a second magnet is placed under the one being raised it will raise more. So on and so fourth. This isnt the system I am actually talking about: various phases of rotation inspired by magnetic attraction and repelling ultimately ending up with objects having been lifted primarily if not totally on magnetic flux itself.
im just gonna drop it. I see it as possible. It can be done with zero fuel or electrical input. that is all ty.
|
| |
|
|
