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Columbus
Hired Hero
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posted April 25, 2001 01:33 PM |
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Rules
Rules are a pain. Some tactics are dreadful as the hit and run thread discussed but having rules to cope with them seems to me to make it worse.
I played someone the other day. He presented me with a huge list of rules in the room all of which I agreed to. This took about 10 minutes. Then when we played he accused me of hit and run. He did this because he didn't know what hit and run meant. I lost interest in the game and added him to my "don't play again" list
I think what is needed is a set of house rules that people can optionally use. You won't have to play with rules. You can, if you wish still negotiate your own. But if you want to play a game with conditions that protect you from the randomness of, say, the grail or diplomacy then you can do so without having to spend 10 minutes discussing the rules and then get into an argument because whoever wanted rules forgot to mention Thant or diplomacy or something
Ideally Vesuvius might post them on the TOH site - but definitely as an option. (Personally I would rather play without rules but if I am going to play with rules I would like both sides to know what they are).
So, if you're in favour of the idea help draft something that will cover everything that needs to be included
Here's a stab at it - please add your comments and then we'll have something to ask Vesuvius to post. Or if you think it's a bad idea, let's hear why
Town: Players agree random or choice. If random any player getting Necropolis may request a restart during the first two days.
Bonus: Players are always free to select their bonus if they wish
Difficulty:100% unless agreed otherwise
Colour: The last person to join chooses colour. Next is the second last person to join and so on until the host who chooses last.
Heroes: No hero may be selected who has a third or fourth level spell specialisation or who has logistics specialisation or the diplomacy skill. Such heroes may be hired from the tavern but must not be used at any time in combat. (If attacked they must simply retreat, surrender or let their troops get killed by only selecting Defend)
Gameplay: If players encounter each other during the first week either player may request a restart provided that they do so before the end of the first week. On a random map a player may request a restart on the first day.
Restarts: Except as mentioned above there is no right to a restart.
Neither player may use Hit and Run tactics. The phrase Hit and Run includes the following:
Attacking a player, performing any action, then retreating or surrendering before the opponent has performed an action
The phrase Hit and Run does NOT include the following
Any actions taken in response to being attacked
Any actions taken where the hero stays until killed
Grail: Neither player may install the grail in a town. If a player does so they lose the game
Tournaments: Any rules of a tournament or league always take precedence over any rules stated here where there is a conflict
Hit and run is a problem to define. I've come up with a definition above that's relatively simple but which probably doesn't cover all the loopholes. So certain cheesy tactics like sending a succession of level 1 heroes with 7 wraiths in 7 stacks to magic arrow your opponent's army and drain his hero are allowed. I can't think of a way to stop this unless we say no split stacks. (But I think splitting your stacks is too much part of the game's tactical play). Maybe some of the people who posted on the hit and run thread could respond
Sorry for the book
Columbus
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RexBibendi
Adventuring Hero
Yak of the High Mountain
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posted April 25, 2001 01:46 PM |
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Cheesy tactics
When one thinks about it, splitting is natural... In real life one can split an army to make it harder for the enemy to attack all your troops at the same time.. (giving more time to bombard the enemy with firepower: in this case magic)..so why not in the game..
- Rex Bibendi
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
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RexBibendi
Adventuring Hero
Yak of the High Mountain
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posted April 25, 2001 02:07 PM |
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Latin phrase
Refering to the earlier message... The latin signature goes something like this in english:
The drop makes a hole in the rock - not by force - but by frequent falling...
- Rex Bibendi
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
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Zud
Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
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posted April 25, 2001 02:09 PM |
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guess I have to go with bad idea
i dont like to set rules on a game, also HC does not uphold any rules in a game (their job is enuf of a nightmare i am sure without tryin to interpret rules) I
f you and another cannot agree in 10 min on rules and what they actually mean, how can a 3ed party (HC) help in the case of a dispute....they can't
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Winner or Whiner?
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ironmlh
Known Hero
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posted April 25, 2001 09:04 PM |
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no rules plz
i think rules should be discussed with your opponent. TOH does not have a policy on rules ( as far as i know). For me personally i play with no rules, other than the occasional. - no grail - rule. But even then that is a stretch for me. There are many more powerful random artifacts that could be found, and the grail adds to game IMO.
If someone wants to play with a rule, i will certainly here what he/she has to say, then i determine if i will play them. If i dont like there rules i dont play, simple as that.
As far as a set listing of rules and their definition to be listed on TOH sites. i think that is a very bad idea. Simply play the people you want to play with. The rule that is easiest both players to understand is `no rules'. simple as that!
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Columbus
Hired Hero
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posted April 26, 2001 01:16 AM |
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I quite accept that no rules are the best rules
I just want something for people to be able to refer to if someone insists that there should be some without having to renegotiate each time
Columbus
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Maxym
Known Hero
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posted April 26, 2001 02:37 AM |
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even rule suggestions will be interpreted by some players as an endorsement of rules.
I say leave it to the players, the way it is now
TOH maps need no rules for most part and randoms can Use KoR rules which are very good for those maps and of course players should be able to modify them
BTW why can anyone restart with Necro?
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ironmlh
Known Hero
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posted April 26, 2001 03:58 AM |
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necro?
yes, what is the deal with the necro restart? i love necro and know of many players that do also.
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dEth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted April 26, 2001 04:53 AM |
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TOH policy = No Rules see the HC pages (nt)
Quote:
i think rules should be discussed with your opponent. TOH does not have a policy on rules ( as far as i know). For me personally i play with no rules, other than the occasional. - no grail - rule. But even then that is a stretch for me. There are many more powerful random artifacts that could be found, and the grail adds to game IMO.
If someone wants to play with a rule, i will certainly here what he/she has to say, then i determine if i will play them. If i dont like there rules i dont play, simple as that.
As far as a set listing of rules and their definition to be listed on TOH sites. i think that is a very bad idea. Simply play the people you want to play with. The rule that is easiest both players to understand is `no rules'. simple as that!
(nt) = (no text) as in nothing new added....oops I just did
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Columbus
Hired Hero
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posted April 26, 2001 01:54 PM |
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OK, thanks very much for your replies everyone
I'm quite new to online gaming and I've been getting quite bogged down in these trivial discussions
I think that what I'll do then is just not to play people who want a long list of rules or to tell them I'm not willing to play under such conditions
I was upset when someone accused me of "Hit and run" it felt like being called a cheat and I don't want to find myself in a similar situation again
Cheers 
Columbus
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 26, 2001 02:19 PM |
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Aloha Columbus
Well I kinda liked ur post, im myself kinda tired of people who have alot of rules, they dont even know themselves.
But as alot of the post has been about, its not TOH`s job to make these extra rules, But u can ask Greystole to post them on his Weeflea site, that way players will have a common reference frame, to which they can turn to, in case there is doubt.
Btw splitting ur wraiths out in seven stacks on ur scouts and hitting opponents main, is in my mind absolutely not H&R, and I certainly not agree to everybody having the right to restart as necro on random settings. It should really be the otherway around  I mean necro is one of the most powerfull towns in the game 
Just my 2 cents.
Defreni
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Destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted April 26, 2001 07:53 PM |
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I would agree the necro rules!!! They are great.... as to this 3rd and 4th level specialty stuff I do not really think it makes sense at all... I mean granted a tenth level Deemer can do some serious harm.... but so can a tenth level sinca with 20 scorpicors... I think these heroes are pretty even.. However I do agree that during a random drawing of heros if one was to receive deemer and the other received someone with a fortune specialty... sure this could be a problem.... but even saying this who is going to tell me that bless is a worse specialty than say inferno or slayer????
I have played with some people who talk of house TOH rules as they do exist... I could never find a list on the site however..... Rules such as "No city hall in week 1" and stuff like that.... then I tried to always place these rules on myself to be a good upstnding member and was getting totally annilated every time I turned around...
Oh well I think that rules are a good optional idea.... but some people just take them way too far...
I also beleive that a sorcery specialty is far better than a meteor shower specialty.... These hero choice rules are retarded in my opinion
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The Dead Walk!!!
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Amazon_King
Hired Hero
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posted April 26, 2001 11:56 PM |
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Level 4 heroes suck???
Quote:
I also beleive that a sorcery specialty is far better than a meteor shower specialty.... These hero choice rules are retarded in my opinion
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The Dead Walk!!!
I guess that in this game everything is context-sensitive, i.e. the best hero in one map/setting could not be in another situation. But I'd take Deemer over Malekith any day, and I guess most people would agree, because the benefits of having an early heavy-damage spellcaster should not be underestimated. Moreover, you are not forced to spend around 20 of each resources to build up a lvl4 guild (and worse yet just to get sorrow plus waterwalk in a no-water map).
Then again I am one for random castles/heroes at start, I need all the luck I can get or else it seems I can never win :-)
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted April 27, 2001 11:12 AM |
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The Motley Fool guilde to rulemaking and rulebreaking
Columbus when you are new it can get crazy.
Most of the time you can only find games with other new players and then you get bogged down with rules, drops and as you mentioned, funniest of all, players with rules who don't even know their own rules.
Rulemaking is not a big problem in ToH. I am so proud of the league for never giving into the whiners who pressured them about it all this time.
Maxym's Asimov quote sums it up every time he post here.
Rulemaking is mainly reserved for newbies and for the very few who are trying to (or already have) acheive some kind of false high rank despite lack of skill.
90% of players do not use rules and once you get around 1200 and can find better games these problems will fade away.
Then you will get a whole NEW set of problems =)
-Mocara
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