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| Thread: Some thoughts in favor Of God |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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JoonasTo
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posted November 18, 2010 06:36 PM |
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What if god did create this universe?
What if this universe was created as an accident?
What if this universe is a failure?
What if this is the 57th billionth universe he created?
What if god's just waiting for this universe to die out so it can try again?
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markkur
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posted November 18, 2010 07:05 PM |
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Quote:
What if god did create this universe?
What if this universe was created as an accident?
What if this universe is a failure?
What if this is the 57th billionth universe he created?
What if god's just waiting for this universe to die out so it can try again?
 I acutally like to do "What if" about almost anything in life. But I know many do not.
What if the New H6 was exactly the way I want it? Others would post endlessly on what is wrong with it. And vice-versa
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xerox
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posted November 18, 2010 07:25 PM |
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My opinion is that religion was long, long ago used to strenghten the society but now, it is no longer needed and in most modern countries it is no longer "obvious" that you would go to church, something I personally never have done (and I am glad for that, I do not think parents should force their own beliefs on their children).
Today religion is used to control and influence people. The worlds biggest problems today are partly centered around religion and there has been so much war et cetera because of religion.
I have a hard time understanding why someone would devote themselves to a religion such as christainity when it is just one out of thousands of religions. Why should it be the "right one"?
How can people take stuff written in a book that has probably been modified and changed a lot as facts?
It also makes me confused when some christains make their own interpretation of the Bible etc and then explain away outdated stuff in the Bible that no longer suits the modern society. I think that if you are christains, you should believe a 100% on what the bible says and not make up your own mini-religion.
If there is some kind of god or supernatural force we do not understand that somehow controls us and specifically cares about Earth out of millions of planets, then I do not think it is the christian or any other god we magically know about.
I think everything can be explained in the end.
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Over himself, over his own
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- John Stuart Mill
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted November 18, 2010 07:36 PM |
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@Markkur
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I believe we are creators and I think that fact "testifies' in going against, our world being "random-chance".
Please explain - what aspects of "our world" [I assume you mean "our universe"] do you think people believe are "random chance", and how does the fact that human beings create things have any bearing on the nature of the world's state of being?
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markkur
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posted November 18, 2010 08:10 PM |
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It also makes me confused when some christains make their own interpretation of the Bible etc and then explain away outdated stuff in the Bible that no longer suits the modern society. I think that if you are christains, you should believe a 100% on what the bible says and not make up your own mini-religion.
I think everything can be explained in the end.
@xerox
You would have to present that truth.
I cannot speak for all of the various sides of that issue. What follows here is going to be "very unacceptable to both those in and out of the Church".
For me, the whole book is a series of letters from "a higher Spirit than my own" and they are many different structures and purposes. History, Poetry, Music, Teaching or soul-bareing confessions that can give me an insight full of applicability to use myself...and I have over and over. Have I had problems as I have went along for the last 3 decades? Too many times. But I do not see that as a flaw of the Book nor a flaw of my own per se. Jesus said "narrow-path" not a highway/broadway. So I have come to see my stumbles as part of staying on the path. Like sticker bushes or steep hills, rocky footing. That sort of thing. I used to set aside the O.T. because I found I HAD to focus on Christ alone for quite a while. Once upon a time...I did not even know what Easter was, I thought it was only hard-boiled eggs
You could be "exactly correct" in rest of your thoughts/beliefs. But I do not hold them. I cannot.
@Corribus
The Bible says "Man was made in God's image" "A little creator" and what do we do? We create. No matter how little I may know about all of this. I get that and can see it everyday day of my life.
I believe if the "Spark" were truly gone: than there would be no internet...no Tech, no nothing, only instincts. Instead of having this discussion I would have my teeth in the neck of a slow and tasty animal with "no other thoughts" only feeling hunger and doing something about it. Although the truth is; I would now be the one eaten.
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Elodin
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posted November 18, 2010 10:31 PM |
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Today religion is used to control and influence people. The worlds biggest problems today are partly centered around religion and there has been so much war et cetera because of religion.
You make harsh claims about religion. Yet we see the utter destruction that atheist tyrants have wrought in the past 100 years. Murdering far more people than all other religions combined for all of recorded history. And certainly those atheist societies they ruled were under absolute control and children were brainwashed in the public schools into thinking atheism is the truth and taught to dispise and make fun of all other religions.
I think it is quite obvious that if everyone in the world "loved his neighbor as himself" the world would be a far better palce. Contrast that to the implication of atheism that moral and immoral is only a matter of opinion and the furthur implication that "might makes right." If man is only a random bag of chemicals there is no such thing as moral and immoral and nothing iw wrong with murder, rape, robbery, or anything else.
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I have a hard time understanding why someone would devote themselves to a religion such as christainity when it is just one out of thousands of religions. Why should it be the "right one"?
When the gospel of Christ was preached my heart was open and in rushed faith. I have received the Spirit of Christ and have no doubt the Bible is the Word of God. I have studied the Bible for 36 years and have yet to find an error. The "errors" often quoted on anti-theit websites are taking verses out of context and easily proven wrong. Yet the anti-theist refuse to take such lies off of their website because they have no interest in truth.
During my walk with Christ I have undergone many changes and grown to a deeper knowledge of who Christ is. I have seen and experienced miracles in the lives and hearts of people including medical miracles.
And of course the Bible's unique description of God matches precisely what is necessary for the First Cause that brought everything into existence.
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How can people take stuff written in a book that has probably been modified and changed a lot as facts?
We know for a fact through textual criticism and the many thousands of historical documents that we have the words of the Bible to within 99.9% accuracy. The discrepencies are mainly mispellings and differing word orders.
http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Integ/B-0701.htm
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On the average, Old Testament documents yield about one variation per page of text; New Testament manuscripts yield only a tenth of one percent variance. In other words, 99.9% of those manuscripts are in perfect agreement.
Though an occasional scribe altered a text to be copied, the resulting deviant copy constitutes only an infrequent departure from the plethora of copies available for corroborating comparison. Even as later copyists unknowingly passed on certain aberrations, appeals to still earlier or more reliable documents still preserve the original message.
Thanks to textual criticism and on-going archaeological discoveries, even as time passes far beyond the date of the original writings, we may be confident that the Bible of today is a fully trustworthy duplication of the original autographs.
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It also makes me confused when some christains make their own interpretation of the Bible etc and then explain away outdated stuff in the Bible that no longer suits the modern society. I think that if you are christains, you should believe a 100% on what the bible says and not make up your own mini-religion.
I believe 100% of what the Bible says. The thing is that you seem to be unaware that there is an Old Covenant and a New Covenant. The Old Covenant dealth with Israel as a physical nation and was only in effect until the glorification of Christ. The New Covenant is not with a physical nation. It is with peoples of all nations who chose to follow Christ. The New Covenant does not authorize the church to punish any sinner for his deeds other than disfellowshipping sinning members. The Old Covenant was enforced within the boundaries of the nation of Israel and provided for the community to punish those who broke the Old Covenant laws.
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1910
Known Hero
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posted November 18, 2010 10:53 PM |
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Lol, Elodin, stop trying to make it so that Christianity is innocent because it's not. Hundreds of Thousands of people have died and all under the name of Religion. Whether more people have died through Religion or not is up for debate, in which I'm not willing to get into but stop trying to make it seem that the Atheists are the bad ones around here. Religion has done it's fair share of screw ups and a lot of people dying for it.
Also, stop trying to make it out as if everybody who doesn't believe in Religion or God or whatnot is wrong. They have their own viewpoints as you have your own. Did you learn nothing from what people were complaining about in the OSM? Just because you disagree with the people doesn't make them wrong at all.
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Mytical
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posted November 18, 2010 11:16 PM |
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Ok, no more talk about athiest tyrants or christianity doing things like the Crusades..we've been down that road a billion times to no avail.
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Adrius
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posted November 18, 2010 11:17 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 23:25, 18 Nov 2010.
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The observations of the Hubble telescope and the COBE sattelite along with the laws of thermodynamics prove that not only did the universe have a beginning but that can't be eternal.
Why can't it be eternal?
Nature seems to like recycling so maybe when all the black holes have united and devoured every last piece of the universe it will all start over? Like a recycling Big Bang?
Hell maybe it'll all be the exact same thing again forever. Maybe we're stuck in a loop that has been going on for eternity?
Can't really know for sure.
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Restricting myself to just saying "God did it" and delving deeper into that truth would make me stop evolving intellectually I think (just like saying "God did not do it", same thing)
It is fanaticism, the belief in a perfect and universal truth that killed all the men, women and children when people here say "religion killed this" or "atheism killed that", not the religion itself.
If someone defies your only truth, it is quite natural that you'd be angered.
Therefore I advocate an open mind, believe in what you want but explore the other possible explanations.
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Salamandre
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posted November 18, 2010 11:19 PM |
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1910, you miss the point. When a christian is killing someone, he is no longer a christian because Elodin says so. So christians NEVER harmed anyone, they are all love, tolerance and respect, we have the best proof in HC forums 
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markkur
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posted November 18, 2010 11:36 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 23:50, 18 Nov 2010.
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stop trying to make it so that Christianity is innocent because it's not.
1910 But it is. If someone gives me a hammer and just tells me "you can build a house with it" but provides nothing else; no nails lumber etc. and I find it can bash in my neighbors skull better than my fist? <IMO> I am mis-using the hammer and it is not to blame.
I responded to share something related and it is not your problem but mine...sorta.
The Church has many problems Its made up of people like all else. Just want to make one point but it's huge.
I do not know Elodin any more than I know you but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts he will agree with this: "Too many Say they are Christian but have little to no regard for the teachings of Christ. They may show up to Church but with no Bible. Therefore they can and are swayed by lies. There are indeed many horrible examples of this Truth.
@Elodin
Did you see a while back the "dig" in the U.K I think; where they found a village that suggested the "timeline" concerning Hunter-Gatherers was in error since this was a settlement? Anyway, the thing that was striking to me was not that but something else they found.
There they found "things" placed in the graves. An act very much in common with many to follow in distant centuries. i.e. The after-life of Egypt This settlement dated way back 8,000 years? I can't recall exactly. Sorry if I am dragging. This action happened before everything in history...so nothing else can be blamed for it.
Wars, hmmmm SOME recent history
English Civil Wars. Part religion, Part King, part Power.
American Civil War. States rights. Trade issues, Slavery
1stWW. Lots of reasons but religion is not on the list.
2nd WW- Not needed
Korea- Not needed
Vietnam- Not needed
Edit= Took out a reference after seeing Mytical's comments.
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veco
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who am I?
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posted November 18, 2010 11:52 PM |
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1910, you miss the point. When a christian is killing someone, he is no longer a christian because Elodin says so. So christians NEVER harmed anyone, they are all love, tolerance and respect, we have the best proof in HC forums
If it wasn't for those pesky atheists we'd be living in a utopia already!
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markkur
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posted November 18, 2010 11:59 PM |
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[If it wasn't for those pesky atheists we'd be living in a utopia already!
<imo> One of the worst Forums can be a Christian one if it is diverse with all of the denominations present. Not a place for the faint of heart.
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Salamandre
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posted November 19, 2010 12:00 AM |
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No, we would live in dark ages, totalitarian and bloodless social system, where the poor, the handicapped and the not lucky will have no other option than die slowly in pain.
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veco
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posted November 19, 2010 12:01 AM |
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No, we would banish all those things with our faith.
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Adrius
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posted November 19, 2010 12:07 AM |
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But unfortunately the members who feel the need to proselytize have without exception turned them into contentious pissing contests. I wager that your thread will be no different.
And it begins...
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shyranis
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posted November 19, 2010 04:10 PM |
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Personally I hope that's not the case.
If I get the time maybe I'll talk about my faith.
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markkur
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posted November 19, 2010 04:13 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 16:36, 19 Nov 2010.
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Therefore I advocate an open mind, believe in what you want but explore the other possible explanations.
That has been one of the finest statements made here and it is vital for any sensible conversation about "anything."
Btw, a post of your's had me laughing last night. Your play by play game experience...that ends with the nukes. Loved it.
@Shyranis
I don't think it will be. Corribus made the orignal statement but I don't think he intended it to be "kindling". He has not agreed with me but <IMO> has been a class-act so far. You know what I mean...not doing a drive-by and toss. Judging from the quality of your other posts, I imagine you would have good stuff to add.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 19, 2010 05:00 PM |
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I don't understand the fuss with Christians doing right, and if not they are not Christians.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, they say, and actions are not always clear-cut. If someone came to death, the reason may be a murder, self-defence or an accident, and not always is obvious what is what, not even for the person responsible.
This is even more obvious in war. I doubt, if someone is supposed to kill other people in a war, whether that someone is able to say whether that killing is justified or not.
Should Christians never ever kill, under no circumstances? If so, lucky are those who've never been tried and tested.
Sinning is only human - if it was expected that humans wouldn't sin at all, the concept of repenting wasn't necessary.
Christians, true, SHOULD not sin - but, alas, humans are imperfect and don't know the absolute truth behind every situation, so they CAN err, and they CAN be wrong, and they CAN do the wrong thing, believing it was right, and they don't stop being Christians because of that.
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markkur
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posted November 19, 2010 05:24 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 21:56, 19 Nov 2010.
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I don't understand the fuss with Christians doing right, and if not they are not Christians.
I would never say that. I could never clear that bar myself. I would have to BE perfect and I am far from it.
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The road to hell is paved with good intentions, they say, and actions are not always clear-cut. If someone came to death, the reason may be a murder, self-defence or an accident, and not always is obvious what is what, not even for the person responsible.
Agreed. We ALL share this difficulty no matter our beliefs. I am not sure how to type what I am thinking about this; but her goes; I think the thing that matters "TO ME" is the "intent" or "truth of the heart" and not the actual result or <IMO> Forgiveness would be out-of- bounds.
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This is even more obvious in war. I doubt, if someone is supposed to kill other people in a war, whether that someone is able to say whether that killing is justified or not.
Should Christians never ever kill, under no circumstances? If so, lucky are those who've never been tried and tested.
Well, this one is NOT easy Again who am I? I would hope that I will avoid having to take a life for any purpose. But I will not propose I am superhuman and ignore the fact that if someone harms my child? they might meet someting quite different than what I would truly desire.
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Sinning is only human - if it was expected that humans wouldn't sin at all, the concept of repenting wasn't necessary.
Agreed. The most striking thing to me about "sin" or any other word you may choose, it seems to always focus on me harming another person in most cases. I think that is why the Bible does have some pretty seriously flawed Bios that are retold. Look at David..."after God's own heart"? i stumbled over that "collision" for a long time.
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Christians, true, SHOULD not sin - but, alas, humans are imperfect and don't know the absolute truth behind every situation, so they CAN err, and they CAN be wrong, and they CAN do the wrong thing, believing it was right, and they don't stop being Christians because of that.
You're preaching to the Choir here as the saying goes. I know, but you know what I have found to be my biggest stumbling block? Forgiving myself. Regrets... For a time I could not get Grace and bring it home.
Anyway, Very good post.
Edit = Corrected what I meant in para. 4
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