|
| Thread: Julian Assange, Wikileaks founder, arrested |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
|
posted December 08, 2010 07:20 AM |
|
|
Quote:
This whole Wikileaks thing is blown way out of proportion and isn't actually a big deal in either direction. Most of the information that was released is stuff we already knew or strongly suspected, so it's not like it's a huge revelation.
It is. We have evidence now. Otherwise it's world conspiracy.
____________
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 08:18 AM |
|
|
Aren't you people realizing that this "classified" nonsense of the military and secret service levels of a government is what is responsible for all the bad things that happen, terrorism included?
Of course that is true for ALL countries, not only for the United States.
However, "secrecy" creates a state within the state. True - classified information about agents working undercover on something is certainly counter-productive, but classified information that is about internal, inner-state stuff is the mark of dictatorship of minorities.
You cannot break the law, put the classified lid on it and then declare war on anyone who tries to uncover the crime.
In this case, I think the US are extremely pissed because they were "beaten".
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 09:24 AM |
|
|
I am not sure, if he gets delivered, somebody has to break their own constution and moral laws.
The other problem is that a goverment breaking its own laws and hiding it is despicable, publishing scandals is after all something that should be illegal no?
Anyhow, I am more concerned about Sweden stopping being the paragon that is at the least attempts to be.
____________
|
|
bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 10:06 AM |
|
|
as far as I can see it, the only things leaked currently are some politicians thoughts on various international figures, openly insulting president mevedev (I hope I have that right), comparing him to the dark knights boy wonder, and called Kim jong-il "A flabby old chap".
Oh yes, and there was something in there about the british forces in afghanistan getting in the way, and the war would be over quicker if we didn't send people over, basically saying that all the british soldiers who fought to help their allies were tards.
yeah, real classy, whoever wrote that.
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
|
|
Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 10:46 AM |
|
|
People try to make this guy out to be some kind of benevolent whistle blower. Or as Az put it, some kind of "white knights valiantly carrying the torch of enlightenment".
A whistle blower is someone who knows about serious illegal activities and exposes it. Assange claims to be an investigative reporter. What he has done is neither whistle blowing nor investigative reporting. All he's done is release hundreds of thousands of documents en masse. And tens of thousands of them were classified.
An investigative reporter investigates. He would sort through those documents for serious criminal activity. He'd sift through them and cross check and double check the sources. He'd answer the most basic reporter questions: who, what, when, where, how. He'd discover who was involved, who knew what, who gave the orders, who carried them out, where the money came from. He would investigate it fully and then accurately and concisely report on the pertinent and verifiable facts, putting them in context.
He did none of those things. He's too damn lazy to be a real investigative reporter and actually spend the time digging up a real story and investigating it. A real investigative reporter might spend years on a single story. All he did was take massive amounts of illegally obtained material and release it en masse.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 11:21 AM |
|
|
Ah, democracy.
We elect the oligarchs that after that hide everything they can from our sight and consider it "dangerous" for our eyes.
Lmfao.
I'm tired of this parliamentary oligarchy. Really.
I read nothing of "Top Secret" level was released anyway. I wonder what kind of "interesting" stuff is there. Seriously, take a wild guess, what CAN be there?
"Democracy". 99% people (wild guess) don't want war, government starts a war. So this is meant to represent the people? Lmfao.
It's not even an illusion. It's simply oligarchy. Elected, but still.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 12:49 PM |
|
|
I'd love reporting to be like this. You're given pieces of the puzzle, various proof and info - none omitted - and just need to glue them together yourself. No one feeds you his opinion, no government censors what's 'unhealthy' for you, no information is skipped or classified or 'lost', everything is said by people on the top to people they wouldn't want to lie to (unlike you). You're given everything and all you need to be is interested enough to piece it together.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 12:56 PM |
|
|
Binabik: Frankly, he did ask around and censor out some stuff, because it would harm people. And frankly, why sit trough it all yourself when you can get the free media to do it?
The free media are willing to throw around snow and harm the goverments, all not interisting and implied stuff will get ignored, because the people will not read it.
Frankly, I will assume quite a bit of the published will get ignored.
And frankly, I want wikileaks to survive and leak more, for a simple reason: There is too much bullsnow that should never have been classified in the first place. When a bunch of ragtag soliders violates their code of operation, and they do not receive punishment for doing that, frankly somebody needs to report it, even if it would turn into a smear campaign once the media gets to it.
And frankly, there is loads of interisting deals being made around, that was not in public approval, nor in internally legal approvemnt, and that frankly will be interisting to read about.
Another thing: They have promised to publish banking leaks soon, which will get interisting, if they get far enough, wikileaks will be this centuries media revolution despite the bad things they will bring along.
____________
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 12:56 PM |
|
|
Democracy means rule of the people.
Do you see ANY rule of the people when governments start wars?
Did the majority of Russian people condemn Georgia invasion, American people condemn Iraq invasion, and such?
How come that in "rule of people" the elected government deliberately opposes the majority's wishes?
When the percentage opposing governments' actions exceeds like 80%, and they STILL do it, it makes me wonder why do they even bother to call it democracy.
It's not even ironical, it's retarded 
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 12:59 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Do you see ANY rule of the people when governments start wars?
American public opinion supported every American war (at least in the beginning).
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 01:00 PM |
|
|
|
I agree completely with diablo.
|
|
Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 02:06 PM |
|
|
Quote:
An investigative reporter investigates. He would sort through those documents for serious criminal activity. He'd sift through them and cross check and double check the sources. He'd answer the most basic reporter questions: who, what, when, where, how. He'd discover who was involved, who knew what, who gave the orders, who carried them out, where the money came from. He would investigate it fully and then accurately and concisely report on the pertinent and verifiable facts, putting them in context.
He did none of those things...All he did was take massive amounts of illegally obtained material and release it en masse.
Exactly that's the whole point. But somehow people ignore that since it's so much cooler to be all underground and against the establishment, lol? This isn't a Rancid concert. Don't you see that information needs context? Without context information is near worthless and most importantly dangerous when people ignore the fact that it lacks context and take it at facevalue.
Quote:
No one feeds you his opinion, no government censors what's 'unhealthy' for you, no information is skipped or classified or 'lost', everything is said by people on the top to people they wouldn't want to lie to (unlike you).
...don't you think that's a bit too Dan Brown-ish? Then again I already wrote you an HCM about that... still I don't understand how people can't see that the unmoderated raw information isn't a source of endless wisdom but quite dangerous and relatively worthless.
Quote:
Frankly, he did ask around and censor out some stuff, because it would harm people. And frankly, why sit trough it all yourself when you can get the free media to do it?
You don't have a clue do you? It's grosely irresponsabil to simply but it all out there and then let it sort out itself. Even if the media censors stuff it's still on the wikileaks page for anyone to see. Jesus I didn't know that people had so little faith in real journalism these days. Apparently every government is some illuminati controlled organisation withholding vital information concerning global events from their cityzence. I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad....
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 02:14 PM |
|
|
You forget that there are other agencies for that kind of stuff: police and prosecution. It's not the task of the media to do that. Media hav to reveal information only.
Whether there have been crimes - both ways, mind you, from the disclosed and the disclosing -, that's up to police and prosecution.
|
|
Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 02:24 PM |
|
|
No the media has to reveal information concerning the public. Not secret documents that only concern the people involved.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 02:30 PM |
|
|
What's the big deal about this?
The guy's been accused of rape for god knows how long before the whole cable incident.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 02:32 PM |
|
|
Accused doesn't mean guilty
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 02:43 PM |
|
|
Really? You sure Doom ? I forgot since that thought has already been established on page one after Fauch let me throw a stone down his well of wisdom.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 03:28 PM |
|
|
Quote:
No the media has to reveal information concerning the public. Not secret documents that only concern the people involved.
The media can publish what they want. If someone doesn't like what they do they have to sue them, and a court has to establish whether it was ok or not.
If the court says it's not okay, it's up to the court to determine the further course of action.
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 04:52 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Frankly, he did ask around and censor out some stuff, because it would harm people. And frankly, why sit trough it all yourself when you can get the free media to do it?
You don't have a clue do you? It's grosely irresponsabil to simply but it all out there and then let it sort out itself. Even if the media censors stuff it's still on the wikileaks page for anyone to see. Jesus I didn't know that people had so little faith in real journalism these days. Apparently every government is some illuminati controlled organisation withholding vital information concerning global events from their cityzence. I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad....
Frankly, why do you think the media is getting boring these days? Mainly because making killer headlines and writting biased fun stuff sells, and since it sells, real interisting journalism is getting more and more and more rare.
Even worse: These days a big bunch of news will be remirroring and translating other papers news, so there is less and less actual journalism that gets done.
I think you will have trouble finding a paper that properly is neutral, and publishes proper article once a week. It is getting rarer and rarer these days.
But for all its worth, the papers will still do the digging job and report up the most interisting because they can.
And frankly, this source is more or less open, anybody can dig in it. The sheer media attention will cause more people to dive inn, and report their findings.
And frankly the real question is: Who is the men who controls the top layer of our global economy? If wikileaks get their job done, we will at some point have names, and I hope frankly it won't turn into a lynch mob.
____________
|
|
Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
|
|
posted December 08, 2010 05:39 PM |
|
|
Quote:
And frankly the real question is: Who is the men who controls the top layer of our global economy?
...what? Dude this is Earth not DanBrownistan.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
|
| |
|
|
