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| Thread: Heroes 6 Fortress? - Love it, hate it or discuss it! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Pahomije
Hired Hero
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posted January 25, 2011 09:36 PM |
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I think Ubi kinda cornered themselves with associating Dwarfs with fire, instead of ice. It is logical, but restrictive. Ashan Dwarfs live underground, near forges and fire, so having fliers isn't plausible. I also wouldn't want to see Valkyries in Fortress because I still cling to hope that Pegasi could go to Ylath faction.
Now, what are we left with? Spiritual side of Arkath's realm is deserved for runepriests nad probably some "fire glories" (which hopefully won't make it into the lineup). I honestly can't think of anything non-dwarven, underground and fire inhabiting and interesting 
Oh, lava toads - no thanks.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 25, 2011 10:19 PM |
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I still think Gorgons (Or Catoblepi, as some prefer to call them even though that name's kinda meh) could work as a middle-tier dwarven unit.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 25, 2011 10:21 PM |
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Quote:
I think Ubi kinda cornered themselves with associating Dwarfs with fire, instead of ice. It is logical, but restrictive. Ashan Dwarfs live underground, near forges and fire, so having fliers isn't plausible. I also wouldn't want to see Valkyries in Fortress because I still cling to hope that Pegasi could go to Ylath faction.
Now, what are we left with? Spiritual side of Arkath's realm is deserved for runepriests nad probably some "fire glories" (which hopefully won't make it into the lineup). I honestly can't think of anything non-dwarven, underground and fire inhabiting and interesting
Oh, lava toads - no thanks.
Well, you could probably come up with something underground-related if you wanted, but personally, I don't see a problem with an out-door dwelling creature associated with the town, even if the town itself is dug into the mountain.
After all, Heroes "overground" and "underground" is not always to be taken that literally - I think it's possible to have H5 Academy towns underground, even though that obviously doesn't make sense from a strictly logical point of view.
My point is the Dwarves can live in caves or whatever and the Thunderbirds would live outside. After all, the Gold Dragons of H3 live on cliffs outside the Rampart and not in the town with the other creatures.
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What will happen now?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 25, 2011 10:30 PM |
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I will comment the "keyphrases" of the dwarves.
1. Dwarven Dominant Race
- Depends on what you mean here. I think by far most people hated the racial H5 Fortress so I think 3 Dwarves would be the maximun number of racial units since they would not want to disappoint the fans again. And in H6 Stronghold, there are also three orcs.
2. Seclusive culture
- This is in the past so this does not have to be the case lorewise. Perhaps something happened around that time which causes them to become so isolated? Their culture could go in any way really, but no they should not ignore how their culture is in H5.
4. Patriarchical society
- Same as above.
5. Scottish inspiration / possibly Norse too
- I do not agree with Scottish. What was scottish about the H5 dwarves except the Spearwielders and perhaps the accent? An accent which has become iconic for dwarves in pretty much all games.
I would love a Norse theme myself but I do not see that as a "MUST". Dwarves can go in lots of directions.
6. Defense oriented faction
- Normally, I would agree here but for H6 Haven has already been established as the Defense faction. I don't think a H6 Fortress would have the same role as Haven.
7. Affiliated with fire
- I agree. Their god is Arkath. But they do not need to be a 100% fire. They can mix in other themes aswell, to not make them to similar to Demons.
8. Living underground
- I do not agree. They did not even live a 100% underground in H6. I could see Dwarves living in Northern forests, aswell as mountains and underground.
9. Using runemagic
- I too think that was a great racial and would love to see it again, but if somebody would come up with something better than I would replace it.
10. Snow as native terrain
- I do not agree. They could easily be a bit creative and go for a new terrain. If Fortress returns, I do not want it to be the exact same as in H5. Just as Necro, Stronghold and to a lesser extent Haven have quite different themes from H5. Especially Necro.
11. Mostly good alignment
- I kind of agree here. Dwarves fit best as an overall good race, but I could see there being hostile groups aswell.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 25, 2011 10:38 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 22:38, 25 Jan 2011.
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Best friends 4ever
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 25, 2011 11:03 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 23:04, 25 Jan 2011.
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Why? It is a green dragon. fallowing your logic the Black dragon in H5 would not by the same Black dragon as in H3, because it doesn't have a red dragon as an un-upgraded model
Actually it is, but the Green switched sides between 2 and 3, so it can't possibly be the same, like the Griffin isn't the same, and nor is the Gargoyle.
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Dragons are children of the gods, Faceless are creations.
Fair enough I suppose.
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The opposite of Darkleves are Sylvan, opposite of Wizards are necromancers.
The opposite of Elrath is Still Malassa though.
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I think the Game lore has more power than game mechanics.
Hm, logically that would mean that all Dark Elves hate all normal Elves...Nope, I don't see it myself, an unplayable game with brilliant lore ain't gonna sell, a good game with no lore will.
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I don't want to argue that the Black dragon and Titan are the Ultimate duo, They are. But please think twice before you write something like "Mages are the opposite of Warlocks and that is that" when it isn't true. The mages are power counterpart of warlocks in most games, but lore vise it is the sorcerer/elf who hates the Warlock and The necromancer who hates the Mage. Just because the Crusader i H2 has the "slay undead" ability, doesn't make the Knights the opoit of the necromancers.
Actually I never mentioned mages, merely Titans, and I never mentioned DElves, merely BDragons. Don't try sticking words into my mouth thanks.
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Hero races in towns (H3-H4): it was quite funny that nearly in every town regardless from its creature line-up humans were there as heroes. I understand the reason "coz humans are so differrent they could fit in nearly every nation/culture etc" but for compare dwarves/elves could only wear one coat ? And what about humans who are sticked with the "non-human" factions and not heroes ? Never ever mentioned maybe in some campaign scenarios as a pop-up that "Xy encounters a group of villagers ....". You could figured out that i better like the H5 race based town style.
That's a good point, a very good one.
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Fortress (h3) : bunch of lizard like creatures with a mammal-humanoid (H5 term ->beastman) again some humans as heroes without real description (tammers of the beast yeah)
True, but it was pretty much the only faction that hasn't been around for over 50m years, so it still counts as 'new'.
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Inferno (H3) : demons called Kreegans --> a space race witch battled for centuries with the Ancients (high-tech space alliance) both sides crippled and the last stronghold of them is defeated by medieval man and magic ... again facepalm
Apparently the 'space-aliens' bit is to do with the M&M RPG, I certainly never saw any indications of it in H3.
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Stronghold (H3) : bunch of goblins, orc, ogres as "bad nation" again with humans as heroes wihtout any description.
Actually they counted as neutral, but overall still too Tolkien-esqe for my tastes.
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Dungeon (H3) : different beasts putted together and as someone mentioned its imaginable that they kill each other rather then living in a town/nation. Humans as heroes again.
Agreed on both parts, but again they're under 50 years old in concept, so they count as 'new'.
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One more thing about the units in H3 : every third creature was the king/queen/monarhc/chieftain/high lord/etc of their race. Nahh you are just kidding right ?
Well that was mostly just a lack of imagination.
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Core :
-Defender,
-Wolf**
-animated armor/golem type creature even could be a weak shooter
Elite :
-Dwarf caster, (could be female)
-Troll*/OR Some "giant" (scale : horse/bull) owl/raven/hawk**
-The Role of Thanes a giant or a statue carved with runes chained to the souls of dead dwarf heroes/warlords
Champion :
-fire dragon (remain as the elemental creature like in H5)
- Mechanical/steampunk dragon without controller/rider
** : not the normal animal instead some "magical" type of them
Is there supposed to be some overriding theme here, or are you just sticking a bunch of creatures and constructs together?
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Someone ask for a Lava Kraken?
Cool, although IMO it'd make a better boss than a dwarven unit.
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I don't recall the fortress dragons having wings, but my memory is a tad bit rusty so I could be (and probably is) wrong.
They don't, but up until now I'd never really thought of lavaas a viable material with which to build a living creature anyway, so maybe different rules apply in this case. Maybe they should have called it a salamander or something instead.
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And you see how many people hate the all dwarven town from homm5, that will never happen again, you seem to be the only one that loved it.
Well it was a good concept IMO, but they could have made the dwarves a bit more stereotypically dwarfish.
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Thanes are basically Giants with lightning properties.
No, that's Titans, or at least it was in H3, and really how can you call something that stands less than 10' tall a 'giant'?
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I think Ubi kinda cornered themselves with associating Dwarfs with fire, instead of ice. It is logical, but restrictive. Ashan Dwarfs live underground, near forges and fire, so having fliers isn't plausible. I also wouldn't want to see Valkyries in Fortress because I still cling to hope that Pegasi could go to Ylath faction.
Now, what are we left with? Spiritual side of Arkath's realm is deserved for runepriests nad probably some "fire glories" (which hopefully won't make it into the lineup). I honestly can't think of anything non-dwarven, underground and fire inhabiting and interesting
Oh, lava toads - no thanks.
'Cornered' is a matter of opinion, there's nothing saying they can't make up all of their own creatures instead of borrowing off someone else.
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Making up different dwarves with different weapons isn't that creative at ALL.
It's as creative as slapping together a bunch of snow-dwelling creatures and calling it a faction.
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I still think Gorgons (Or Catoblepi, as some prefer to call them even though that name's kinda meh)...
Catoblepas is the Greek name, calling it a gorgon is something D&D did because they couldn't think of a better name for what they ended up calling the Catoblepas.
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- Depends on what you mean here. I think by far most people hated the racial H5 Fortress so I think 3 Dwarves would be the maximun number of racial units since they would not want to disappoint the fans again. And in H6 Stronghold, there are also three orcs.
And I wonder how much of that hatred is because they dislike Haven, but feel it'd be un-fan-ish to criticise such a long-standing faction.
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- Normally, I would agree here but for H6 Haven has already been established as the Defense faction. I don't think a H6 Fortress would have the same role as Haven.
Yeah, but how do you categorise 'defensive', tough but slow, or normal, but throws a lot of attack and speed curses at the enemy?
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- I do not agree. They could easily be a bit creative and go for a new terrain. If Fortress returns, I do not want it to be the exact same as in H5. Just as Necro, Stronghold and to a lesser extent Haven have quite different themes from H5. Especially Necro.
Necro still has the same native terrain though, for all that it's concept is different.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 25, 2011 11:09 PM |
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On a sidenote, the Magma Kraken is awesome. 
I gots loads more where that came from. The internet is your friend. Yours and that of people with drawing skills that want to express themselves.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 25, 2011 11:23 PM |
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No, that's Titans, or at least it was in H3, and really how can you call something that stands less than 10' tall a 'giant'?
What about Goliath? He was only 9' tall. Besides, Collosi and Titans are both constructs created by wizards, while thanes are more like giants of Norse and English mythology.
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garnju
Hired Hero
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posted January 25, 2011 11:43 PM |
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to MattII
I mainly descriped the H3 lore/town background to share my point(s) why i like better the Ashan universe/lore.
For the Kreegan/inferno : you are right the only thing i could remember is (maybe its in the Restoration inf camp) that the main leader of the demons lives in hive and maybe a sentence about that they seek the glory of the past.
Stronghold : again you are right but the non-human heroes were mainly the bad guys. (i mean if stronghold was your opponent they were goblin+orc bad guys but when you played with them you were the pure, noble in a savage way human)
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Is there supposed to be some overriding theme here, or are you just sticking a bunch of creatures and constructs together?
I mainly tried to stick together the ideas i liked from others posts but cleared it in my next quote as a line-up.
about the H5 fortress dragon : it was mentioned several times in the game that Arkath never ever chained his children (red or ruby or whatever dragons - again no info about Arkhats real dragons-) and the fire/magma dragon was a creation by his followers (dwarfs) to get back his ... 'guarding eye'.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 25, 2011 11:45 PM |
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What about Goliath? He was only 9' tall.
Actually the early sources put him at only 6'/4 cubits tall, later scripts raise it to 9'/6 cubits.
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Besides, Collosi and Titans are both constructs created by wizards, while thanes are more like giants of Norse and English mythology.
Maybe, although their sizes vary greatly, from not much larger than humans to pretty enormous, which suggests, at least to me, that 'Giants' in Norse myth, are no more mono-racial than 'Demons' are in Christian philosophy.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 26, 2011 07:09 AM |
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Quote:
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Why? It is a green dragon. fallowing your logic the Black dragon in H5 would not by the same Black dragon as in H3, because it doesn't have a red dragon as an un-upgraded model
Actually it is, but the Green switched sides between 2 and 3, so it can't possibly be the same, like the Griffin isn't the same, and nor is the Gargoyle.
Sorry, but this statement doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't the Griffin and Gargoyle be the same creature, even if it changed alignment? Same goes for Green Dragon.
(Of course, the fact that 3DO made an epic fail by not changing it into a Silver Dragon when they moved it to Rampart is another discussion.)
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What will happen now?
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted January 26, 2011 08:56 AM |
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about the H5 fortress dragon : it was mentioned several times in the game that Arkath never ever chained his children (red or ruby or whatever dragons - again no info about Arkhats real dragons-) and the fire/magma dragon was a creation by his followers (dwarfs) to get back his ... 'guarding eye'.
I would Actuely like to see the reference for that statemant, Kind of mist it in the game.
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Hm, logically that would mean that all Dark Elves hate all normal Elves...Nope, I don't see it myself, an unplayable game with brilliant lore ain't gonna sell, a good game with no lore will.
I mde a long statemant one page back about why do I think Lore is importatn for a game to be realy good. read it.
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Best friends 4ever
Made my day, Now say I it doesn't look nice:-D
Last thing Is topic based.
And this is a good discusion topic. And that is the Animated Dragon Golem. My personal opinion is rather negativ. I can't see how something like a mechanic unit could work in the faction as it is. Dwarves are skilled smiths and rune mages but, as I see it, not on such a level to create something so complicted.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted January 26, 2011 09:35 AM |
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They need to be a creature, like in H3. Alonge with the Dark elves. Anyway they are MUCH better race idea if we compare them to the dark elfs... they are just lame idea.
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 26, 2011 10:13 AM |
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Hi there, trying my luck on making a combination of Norse based myth and Dwarven forging culture here is my version. Well I made up myself about Asgardian to explain the Valkyrie and the Champion. Some of them are weapon-name-transformed-into-unit but I think it still appropriate. However due to a very different elemental theme, I twisted the story a bit. So take your time to read the Race story.
Name: Valhalla
Race:
Iron Fist Dwarven: Outcast of Dwarven race. Leaving the way of runes and Arkath towards free thinking just like Wizards of Human. Found an ally in High Mountain peak of the northern freezing continent.
Construct: As many of the Iron Fist Dwarven is a skilled Engineer, many of their work are Zeppelin for transport purpose or Flying Platform to support their castle, but some of them are actually weapon of war. A combination of "Soul" of Asgardian's Lightning and Dwarven's Machinery.
Asgardian: Mysterious race consider to be legend and myth by many. Some argue that they are born of the Void just like faceless. Some admit they might be born out of Ylath's fury against Human when they left their way toward Elrath. Asgardian has similar proportion of those of human only twice the size, extremely pale skin and their eyes emits lightning spark.
Line Up:
Core:
Mountain Guardian --> Mjolnir
Many Dwarven warriors were part of the outcast. While Engineer discovered the lightning and Orichalon and applied them for Machinery, Mountain Guardian used them to enhance their weapon. Each swing of their Hammer may cause a bounce of lightning bolt to enemy nearby. The dual Hammer wielder, Mountain guardian is important core army of the Valhalla army.
Trait:
- Melee
- Living Creature
- Lightning Bounce
Gun Slinger --> Musketeer
High mountain weather disable any use of normal Bow and Crossbow. The strong wind, sometimes even Blizzard. Many of the normal method failed to work in the harsh environment. Combination of Orichalon and Gunpowder answered the calling. A perfect combination of Dwarven Mechanism and mystical force of lightning stone Orichalon gave birth to Musketeer. They became the backbone of Dwarven range attacker.
Trait:
- Range
- Living Creature
- ????
Living Armor --> Einherjar
While Living Armors were later invention compare to
Trait:
- Construct
- Melee
Elite:
Thunder Bird --> Lightning Bird
Ylath lost his follower twice. When The Wizard left to find their own way and when the human chose Elrath. Thunder Birds were said to be born of Ylath Fury when Wizard left him.
Trait:
- Flyer
- Melee
- Living Creature
Steam Tank --> Siege Tank
"Electricity!" Scream A Dwarven researcher when a Yellow bright stone spark him with lightning bolt. Since then, the technology evolved. The Steam Tank is said to be the edge of the Dwarven Technology. Combining Steam Tech and "Electricity" that later named Orichalon (named after the Dwarven researcher that found it).
Trait:
- Melee with Ram Head like Mechanism
- Ram Head attack good at Siege damage
- Siege Tank can launch limited range with long cooling down)
- Construct
Battle Maiden --> Valkyrie
Human's females are known to be weak and spoiled but not the case of Asgardian's female, Valkyrie is natural warrior by birth. They can survive the extreme temperature of below 0 in the high mountain with minimum clothes. Like many Asgardian, Valkyrie adept at Lightning elemental spell.
Trait:
- Melee
- Spell Caster
- Fast attacker
- Living Creature
Champion:
Gungnir --> Storm Rider
A battle master warrior with Sleipnir (8 Legged Horse) as his steed. Undoubtedly the most powerful warrior in Valhalla's arsenal. Moving around the battlefield as they wish and Striking with deadly spear as hard as Cyclop's Club Swing, Gungnir and Storm Rider are a force to reckon.
Trait:
- Heavy Cavalry
- Teleport (Active ability)
- ???? (Should be something interesting here)
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted January 26, 2011 10:15 AM |
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@Xerox
The Dominant Race doesn't mean they will populate the ranks of the line-up. It could still not be a race based faction. It means that the Heroes of the factions, in their majority will be dwarves.
As far as Seclusive Culture and Patriarchical Society are concerned, I preffer to stick with them. The Dwarves always had that in them. In mythology they are represented as spirits that lived in deep caverns inside mountains, that brings seclusion into mind. And after that, Tolkien, D&D and almost every other source of their modern interpretations had them appearing more or less, as seclusive. Same goes for the Patriarchical society, this keyphrase used by every other media for the dwarves as well, is based on their actual legened once again. Female dwarves are very rare to come by, wether they're in fantasy books and games or folklore and traditions.
You're wrong about the Scottish theme being only on the Spearwielders. Defenders, Berserkers and Thanes appearance had also been inspired by the Scottish culture. Bear Riders and Rune Priests too, to a much lesser extent. Some of the alternative upgrades reminded of the Viking culture, but that wasn't as evident as the Scottish one.
As far as I can tell, Haven is not focusing on Defense as much as healing and buffing. Still though Defense is one of their strong points, and this is probably why Fortress will not make it in. Dwarves will always be the heavily Defense oriented faction and nothing will ever change that. Certainly not the fans' will.
They did live undergroun in H5, there was even a whole brand new underground tileset for their sake only. They would just venture out to the snow too. That is another fact that cannot be changed.
So having them remaining in snow, makes it not creative? Why's that? Where would you rather see them then?
@Nightterror
No, Tolkien didn't change the elves. It's the elves that changed themselves from mythology to mythology and folklore to folklore. Tolkien did not make up anything. He chose a few aspects and legends of them, to present them as his own elves. And you still go on with the race based faction when I repeatedly said that I'm not going for one now, I just like it better.
@VokialBG
What makes Dark Elves lame? Is it that they are lame whatsoever or that their appearance in H5 was lame? In the former part, I disagree; in the latte, I agree.
Dark Elves are here to stay wether you like them or not. But I'm all up for a heavy modification of their faction. They were a great idea that has not been executed well, mainly because they were ripped off from Warhammer. However their war against the Dwarves, is something I applaud. Since Dwarves fought Dark Elves since the ancient legends and tales.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 26, 2011 10:16 AM |
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Anyway they are MUCH better race idea if we compare them to the dark elfs... they are just lame idea.
More like Warhammer's idea
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 26, 2011 10:36 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 11:10, 26 Jan 2011.
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I mde a long statemant one page back about why do I think Lore is importatn for a game to be realy good. read it.
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The most important thing is that a good fantasy world should have an interesting lore. Heroes o its own could give a damn about lore but Ashan is a world, just like Warcraft or Warhammer or any other. and the way you create it will make it interesting for the players. When you create your faction you create the lore. that is why sou should think how is your world so special. What is so unique about it. So why not a fire Kraken? Why not an arctic eagle? Why do you think Ashan orcs are the way they are? To make them different from other games, to make them unique and attractive.
Psh, Lore comes a distant second to gameplay, and unique gameplay is just as interesting as a unique lore, if not more so, because it's something everyone pays attention to, whereas half your audience probably won't even give the Lore stuff a second glance.
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You make your living with this world, and by copying thing from this world, you will have hard times making someone notice your work. Be creative and stun people by the fantastic world you created. If you try to make a living with it, you can't just say "well then go and play D&D if you like it better" you have to make people excited about your work. This is why why should let go of the Earth limits and make such factions more creative.
Again, unique and interesting game-play is a much bigger puller than some half-ignored back story.
Besides, our back story is hardly spectacular, dragon gods, lesser, elemental dragon gods, Angels, Demons, Elves and Dwarves and Orcs and Wizards. You want something unique, you gotta get rid of the old clichés, and that starts with ditching most of the factions.
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garnju
Hired Hero
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posted January 26, 2011 11:03 AM |
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Edited by garnju at 11:12, 26 Jan 2011.
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to Dave
As far as i remember hints about the relligion of dwarfes and their conneciton to Arkath was mainly heard when Wulfsan or Hangvul quoted something. And at the ending video of the dwarven map at Tote Zehir, Wulfstan and Hangvul talking about that for a long time (decades or centuries? Who knows) Arkath haven't manifested before his priests for some reason and when the Dragon god appears he calles "Faithless", witch refers back for some quoute by Wulfstan (back in HoF) that the priesthood does not care so much about their god they becamed a powerhungry bunch covered in the protection of relligion.
However if i counter this statement with the lore of the fire dragons it fails since their description says that they are the children of Arkath.
Damn it .......
Sorry Dave you are absolutly right. I mixed the originall Ubi/nival lore with a fan-created scenario....
and for about engineered units for the dwarves :
Hangvul
Hangvul views himself as the sole thing that keeps the empire on an even keel; as a result he views it as his dragon-given duty to ensure that King Tolghar follows his recommendations. Hangvul lost an eye and an arm in wars against the Dark Elves, and he fashioned himself new ones out of magic and steel. The results of this on his personality are enormous -- from a fanatic and racist hatred of other factions to an unshakeable belief in his own convictions and talents.
Fierce warriors, industrious blacksmiths, skilled sailors and masters of Rune (War) Magic (tattooed bodies, runic weapons & armors…).
further more if wizards could create golems and such why others can't ? For example since Necromancers are wizards too, they still remember how to create golems they just don't use them in warfare.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted January 26, 2011 11:29 AM |
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@ Matt
Man sorry but you suck at Marketing. Don't you understand that this wasn't limited to on game only, but to the entire Brand? If you want to make a good game, mechanics are important, but your not making just a Game its a complex image that created over the years in the heads of the players.You are expanding this image. Why do you think Ubisoft bought the brand for such money? Or because there Heroes Fans? NO! Because it was a Brand, and it has potential. You dont need graphic at the highest level. You don't need a stoneching new gamplay. You need a game that will hold up to the tradition of the game and so it can stand up tu its name. Especially in Fantasy games Lore is a really big part of the impretion the game makes. Look at these discussions: Nobody says DE or Dwarves were bad at gamplay but that the way they were depicted and described made them offensive. Nobody give a dam about story in race/sport/fight there is little story in FPS, but generally a strategy needs a more complex world, and in an RPG game Lore is Vital. Look at DA, It was a good game, very good for this time, but the lore made it a great game. Also look at Blood bowl, the game would have no sens if it was just a random set of something cool put together, but because it fallows the Warhammer lore it makes a good sens and a fun atmosphere. Or look at Heroes 4, it wasn't the game mechanics, or graphic that made it populare for some poeple, but the story, the lore and the world There are two kinds of people, people who love to win and people who love to play.I know technical players dont give a F*** about Lore but it is Vital for the Brand. And it is the brand that makes a nother game, not the mechanics.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 26, 2011 09:03 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 21:11, 26 Jan 2011.
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Quote:
@ Matt
Man sorry but you suck at Marketing. Don't you understand that this wasn't limited to on game only, but to the entire Brand? If you want to make a good game, mechanics are important, but your not making just a Game its a complex image that created over the years in the heads of the players.You are expanding this image. Why do you think Ubisoft bought the brand for such money? Or because there Heroes Fans? NO! Because it was a Brand, and it has potential. You dont need graphic at the highest level. You don't need a stoneching new gamplay. You need a game that will hold up to the tradition of the game and so it can stand up tu its name. Especially in Fantasy games Lore is a really big part of the impretion the game makes. Look at these discussions: Nobody says DE or Dwarves were bad at gamplay but that the way they were depicted and described made them offensive. Nobody give a dam about story in race/sport/fight there is little story in FPS, but generally a strategy needs a more complex world, and in an RPG game Lore is Vital. Look at DA, It was a good game, very good for this time, but the lore made it a great game. Also look at Blood bowl, the game would have no sens if it was just a random set of something cool put together, but because it fallows the Warhammer lore it makes a good sens and a fun atmosphere. Or look at Heroes 4, it wasn't the game mechanics, or graphic that made it populare for some poeple, but the story, the lore and the world There are two kinds of people, people who love to win and people who love to play.I know technical players dont give a F*** about Lore but it is Vital for the Brand. And it is the brand that makes a nother game, not the mechanics.
Well what about the Age series, Simcity series, Total War series, they didn't have any really big bits of lore, yet they're still popular. Oh, and remember that a lot of people still say that H3 was the most popular game in the series, and it is, not because of the lore, but because it's the last game where all of the gameplay mechanics worked well, unlike 4 and 5, which are buggy as hell to go by the reports. Good gameplay can make up for a lack of lore, good lore can in no way make up for poor gameplay.
Edit: No, wait, some of that argument is actually about playability, which is even bigger.
Playability > Gameplay > Lore, where '>' means 'more important than'.
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