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| Thread: Alci's Heroes 6 wishful wonderland |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 14, 2011 11:58 AM |
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Alci's Heroes 6 wishful wonderland
Alci's Heroes 6 wishful wonderland
So, I don't quite know how far this will go. I had a huge Heroes 6 project going back in the ancient days, and I have long thought I should try to take the time to update it to the frame of te recent game. Since I had some time this week, I thought I would at least give it a start. If I will be able to follow it through, time will show.
Hero properties
Hero Classes
Each faction will have two Core Classes: A Might class and a Magic class, with an associated Class Skill, unique to this class. For each of these classes, there will be two Advanced Classes, a good and an evil class. Hero can achieve these advanced classes by gaining enough reputation (good/evil). Various deeds like deciding to fight neutrals or let them flee, taking money from chests or giving it away will affect your reputation.
Hero Attributes
Each hero will have 6 attributes, namely Attack, Defence, Endurance, Power, Protection and Knowledge. Four of these are known from previous Heroes games, whereas two are new. There are three attributes that deal with Might effects (Attack, Defence, Endurance) and three that deal with Magic effects (Power, Protection and Knowledge). The attributes work in the following way:
- Attack: Increases attack of units and Hero
- Defence: Increases defence of units and Hero
- Endurance: Powers hero Stamina and determines if he can do direct attacks (similar to Mana for spells)
- Power: Increases effect and range of Hero spells
- Protection: Decreases effects of enemy spells
- Knowledge: Powers hero Mana and determines if he can cast spells
Leveling Up and Attributes
Each time a Hero levels up, he will receive 2 Attribute points. These will be distributed according to a statistical scheme as descriped below.
A Hero belongs to either Might or Magic group. A Might hero will primarily gain Might Attribute points (MIP), and a Magic Hero will primarily gain Magic Attribute points (MAP), but the exact distribution depends on which of the following subgroups he belongs to:
- Might exclusive [8/0]: Will only gain Might Attributes, banned from Magic.
- Might dominated [7/1]: This hero gains 7 MIP and 1 MAP over each cycle of 4 levels. Thus, on gaining 1st, 2nd and 3rd level, Hero gains 2 MIP, whereas on 4th level Hero gains 1 MIP and 1 MAP. Then cycle restarts.
- Might favored [6/2]: This hero gains 6 MIP and 2 MAP over each cycle of 4 levels. Thus, Hero gains one MAP on even levels, reast MIP.
- Might inclined [5/3]: Hero gains 5 MIP and 3 MAP over each cycle of 4 levels. Hero gets 2 MIP on 1st level, rest are one of each.
- Balanced [4/4] Hero gains 1 MIP and 1 MAP on each level.
- Magic inclined [3/5]: Heroe gains 3 MIP and 5 MAP for each 4 levels.
- Magic favored [2/6]: Hero gains 2 MIP and 6 MAP for each 4 levels.
- Magic dominated [1/7]: Hero gains 1 MIP and 7 MAP for each 4 levels.
- Magic exclusive [0/8]: This hero only gains Magic Attributes, banned from Might.
The distribution between the three attributes within each group will be determined from a statistical distribution of each class (for instance, Knight has a 50 % chance of each MIP going to his Defence).
About Hero classes and Might/Magic schools
There are 4 schools of magic (Light, Dark, Creative and Destructive) and 4 schools of might (Melee, Ranged, Mounted and Siege). Each Faction will have an association with some of these schools, which will determine how likely it is for Heroes to learn skills from the appropriate school, and what spells and techniques that can be learned from their Mage and Warrior's guilds. As an example, Haven is associated with Light Magic (primary) and Dark Magic (secondary) from the Magic schools, and is associated with Mounted Combat (primary) and Siege Combat (secondary) from the Might schools.
The faction core Might class will be associated with the primary school of might, meaning that the Hero starts with a free skill point in this school. Upon achieving an advanced class, the Hero can either further specialise in the same school (gains another skill point) or specialise in the secondary school (free skill point in that school), depending on what advanced class he achieves. Likewise, the core Magic hero will be associated with the primary Magic school.
Alci's factions
Faction Build
So, the factions I will present follows the framework of the official Heroes 6. That means that I will stick to the factions announced so far, and I will stick to the core/elite/champion scheme of the units. So far, I've gone with traditional upgrade scheme ... whether that will be upgraded later, I don't know.
First faction will hold few surprises. Click on names to see skills. Click on faction banner to read short unit description.
  
  
 * Courtesy of Zenofex
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What will happen now?
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted February 14, 2011 12:06 PM |
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Alci in wonderland
Looking forward to this 
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ICTC announced
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted February 14, 2011 01:08 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 13:12, 14 Feb 2011.
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Looks really cool and I like the design. 
Pikeman/Sentinel: Perfect, no additional comment.
Sniper: I don't really see the purpose of Precision, or wait I do but it seems like it just enhance the already existing mechanic of ranged penalty.
Healer/Priestess: Empathy . Divine Protection sounds really interesting, at first glance it seems a bit too powerful but on the other hand I imagine that good reputation will be hard to acquire. (but I don't think that the protection should ever reach 100%  )
Imperial Griffin: opportunist is awesome  (If I have interpreted it right, is it that all units that passes by the griffin gets attacked?)
Engineer: Cool, complicated and interesting is my thoughts on this unit. But I do approve it . It seem to force some new ways of playing Haven and it sounds cool, especially if Haven is going to play this "defend, wait and gather strength"-architecture.
Paladin/Sun Champion: Cool and fitting abilities, makes you want to be extra careful about placement when facing a "dark-magic heavy" faction. I also really like Trample.
I'm a little "skeptic" about Sun Strider however, but that depends on how other "weather effects" will affect the other factions.
Angel/Seraph: Nice combination between the Arch Angel and Seraph from H5. Blessed Sword is a cool passive on top of that.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 14, 2011 01:22 PM |
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Thanx for the feedback. Let me clarify a few comments:
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Sniper: I don't really see the purpose of Precision, or wait I do but it seems like it just enhance the already existing mechanic of ranged penalty.
Precision would be a less powerful version of No Range penalty - it gives a chance of not having range penalty, but it decreases with distance to target. Thus, if target is 10 tiles away (D = 10), chance is 10 * 5 % = 50 % for not having penalty, whereas if target is 15 tiles away, chance is less, namely 5 * 5 % = 25 %.
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Healer/Priestess: Empathy . Divine Protection sounds really interesting, at first glance it seems a bit too powerful but on the other hand I imagine that good reputation will be hard to acquire. (but I don't think that the protection should ever reach 100% )
Notice that with maximum reputation (R = 10; which will probably be hard to achieve, but not sure on how exactly that works yet), the damage reduction will still be picked as a random number between 0 and R [10], that is, protection will be a random number between 0 and 100 %, or 50 % on average (at maximum reputation). Obviously, this is a unit with little offensive powers on its own.
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Imperial Griffin: opportunist is awesome (If I have interpreted it right, is it that all units that passes by the griffin gets attacked?)
Yes, each creature has an area of control around it (the tiles next to it. So the idea is if a creature passes through the Griffin's AOC without attacking directly, the Griffin gets a free attack (credit goes to D&D for this idea).
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Engineer: Cool, complicated and interesting is my thoughts on this unit. But I do approve it . It seem to force some new ways of playing Haven and it sounds cool, especially if Haven is going to play this "defend, wait and gather strength"-architecture.
Yeah, Zenofex came up with the basic idea for this a while back, and I totally love it. I think it's very innovative, and a brilliant way to couple War Machines with regular units.
Quote:
Paladin/Sun Champion: Cool and fitting abilities, makes you want to be extra careful about placement when facing a "dark-magic heavy" faction. I also really like Trample.
I'm a little "skeptic" about Sun Strider however, but that depends on how other "weather effects" will affect the other factions.
Not too sure about the whole Sun thing myself. Probably it will work on certain terrains (like Grassland and Plains).
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What will happen now?
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted February 14, 2011 01:30 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 13:31, 14 Feb 2011.
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Quote:
Notice that with maximum reputation (R = 10; which will probably be hard to achieve, but not sure on how exactly that works yet), the damage reduction will still be picked as a random number between 0 and R [10], that is, protection will be a random number between 0 and 100 %, or 50 % on average (at maximum reputation). Obviously, this is a unit with little offensive powers on its own.
Ahh, I missed the "random"-part
Quote:
Not too sure about the whole Sun thing myself. Probably it will work on certain terrains (like Grassland and Plains).
It could be really cool if Weather/Terrain could be "manipulated" by spells, Summon Sunshine? 
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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soul_blighter
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 14, 2011 07:56 PM |
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looks great alci...the siege engineer sounds interesting...a question though: can the trebuchet attack normal creatures on the battlefield other than besieging a fort? that would be devastating weaponry for a core creature!! 
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seddy
Known Hero
Spinner of delicious cupcakes
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posted February 14, 2011 08:04 PM |
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Actually, the engineer unit is elite.
Btw, seems overall pretty nice. Though I wonder... What happens if the seraph is lead by an evil hero vs a good one?
And: Are the basic abilities "inherited" to the upgraded versions?
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 14, 2011 08:17 PM |
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Edited by Geny at 20:40, 14 Feb 2011.
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But, but... the army leaves me way too tired in the evening to properly criticize your work.
P.S. Ah, who am I kidding, I'm definitely in on this. But before we begin I want you to answer Seddy's question because I've been wondering about that as well.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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vitorsly
Known Hero
Joker!
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posted February 14, 2011 09:15 PM |
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Quote:
And: Are the basic abilities "inherited" to the upgraded versions?
Im preety sure Yes.
Why would the griffin have unlimited retaliation while the imperial griffin doesnt?
I really like it but do the palladin and the sun champion ride normal horses (H1-5) or spirit horses (H6)?
I would like more that the palladin a normal one and the champion a spirit one but the wonderland is yours.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 15, 2011 08:53 AM |
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Quote:
looks great alci...the siege engineer sounds interesting...a question though: can the trebuchet attack normal creatures on the battlefield other than besieging a fort? that would be devastating weaponry for a core creature!!
Yes, as pointed out, the Engineer is an elite unit, and the Trebuchet will be able to target normal units, probably for some sort of area effect with reduced damage for each target. Thus, it will work comparable to the Scatter Shot of achers in H5.
Quote:
Btw, seems overall pretty nice. Though I wonder... What happens if the seraph is lead by an evil hero vs a good one?
And: Are the basic abilities "inherited" to the upgraded versions?
Second question first: Yes, all abilities from basic unit caries on to upgrade.
About the Seraph, it will work like this:
- Led by good hero, fighting evil hero: Damage bonus.
- Led by good hero, fighting good hero: No damage bonus*.
- Led by evil hero: No damage bonus.
* Maybe a bonus will be given, if reputation of Seraph hero is better than that of enemy hero - i.e. bonus will scale with difference in reputations, as long as friendly hero has the better reputation.
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What will happen now?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 15, 2011 01:13 PM |
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Added a short creature description (click faction banner) and also added Hero Classes (click banners) and a section about the Hero mechanisms. For those of you who read the masterpost previously, the following sections were added:
Quote:
Hero properties
Hero Classes
Each faction will have two Core Classes: A Might class and a Magic class, with an associated Class Skill, unique to this class. For each of these classes, there will be two Advanced Classes, a good and an evil class. Hero can achieve these advanced classes by gaining enough reputation (good/evil). Various deeds like deciding to fight neutrals or let them flee, taking money from chests or giving it away will affect your reputation.
Hero Attributes
Each hero will have 6 attributes, namely Attack, Defence, Endurance, Power, Protection and Knowledge. Four of these are known from previous Heroes games, whereas two are new. There are three attributes that deal with Might effects (Attack, Defence, Endurance) and three that deal with Magic effects (Power, Protection and Knowledge). The attributes work in the following way:
- Attack: Increases attack of units and Hero
- Defence: Increases defence of units and Hero
- Endurance: Powers hero Stamina and determines if he can do direct attacks (similar to Mana for spells)
- Power: Increases effect and range of Hero spells
- Protection: Decreases effects of enemy spells
- Knowledge: Powers hero Mana and determines if he can cast spells
Leveling Up and Attributes
Each time a Hero levels up, he will receive 2 Attribute points. These will be distributed according to a statistical scheme as descriped below.
A Hero belongs to either Might or Magic group. A Might hero will primarily gain Might Attribute points (MIP), and a Magic Hero will primarily gain Magic Attribute points (MAP), but the exact distribution depends on which of the following subgroups he belongs to:
- Might exclusive [8/0]: Will only gain Might Attributes, banned from Magic.
- Might dominated [7/1]: This hero gains 7 MIP and 1 MAP over each cycle of 4 levels. Thus, on gaining 1st, 2nd and 3rd level, Hero gains 2 MIP, whereas on 4th level Hero gains 1 MIP and 1 MAP. Then cycle restarts.
- Might favored [6/2]: This hero gains 6 MIP and 2 MAP over each cycle of 4 levels. Thus, Hero gains one MAP on even levels, reast MIP.
- Might inclined [5/3]: Hero gains 5 MIP and 3 MAP over each cycle of 4 levels. Hero gets 2 MIP on 1st level, rest are one of each.
- Balanced [4/4] Hero gains 1 MIP and 1 MAP on each level.
- Magic inclined [3/5]: Heroe gains 3 MIP and 5 MAP for each 4 levels.
- Magic favored [2/6]: Hero gains 2 MIP and 6 MAP for each 4 levels.
- Magic dominated [1/7]: Hero gains 1 MIP and 7 MAP for each 4 levels.
- Magic exclusive [0/8]: This hero only gains Magic Attributes, banned from Might.
The distribution between the three attributes within each group will be determined from a statistical distribution of each class (for instance, Knight has a 50 % chance of each MIP going to his Defence).
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted February 15, 2011 02:41 PM |
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The might class has a missing C letter
Other than that, I do not think that having a simple increase in Dark/Light spellpower works. Honestly, I would try to think up something else or something more distinctive (cause that way we could end up having all magic heroes having a respective spell school boost).
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 15, 2011 02:51 PM |
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Quote:
Other than that, I do not think that having a simple increase in Dark/Light spellpower works. Honestly, I would try to think up something else or something more distinctive (cause that way we could end up having all magic heroes having a respective spell school boost).
Hmm, right. Good point. Actually, I originally had the Strong Faith ability with Good Magic. I think I will make it so that each Magic Advanced Class has an associated School of Magic, and each Might Advanced Class has an associated School of Might, which gets empowered, and then besides that, each class will have an ability relating to units.
EDIT > Updated Hero Class pictures.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 15, 2011 03:17 PM |
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Lovely I must say! I like this siege unit, even though in h4 I didn't like the ballista. This makes more sense, because they are engineers.. Well but I do not like the ability of another unit with heal/repair. Haven has already Priestess to mainly heal and Angel to heal. A third one, even though thematically right if Haven is the "healing faction", seems too much for me.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 15, 2011 08:29 PM |
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Right then:
Marksmen/Sniper: Still not sure whether giving a unit both Piercing Bolts and Precision is a good all-around balancing move or just conflicting abilities that will make the unit either too strong or too weak depending on stats.
Healer/Priestess: First, not sure how morale will work this time around. Second, the atb bar is essentially out in Heroes 6. Third, with all of the abilities of the Priestess she becomes a very fast moving healer who is incredibly hard to target. Might be too strong for a core unit.
Angel/Seraph: Both Blessed Sword and Divine Avenger are rather situational abilities and hardly can be considered a solid asset. This is, however, more of an observation than criticism, since I assume that their main power is in their resurrection and high fighting abilities.
Heroes:
I find it a little peculiar that the Core Might Hero has high Knowledge and mediocre Protection, while the Core Magic Hero low Knowledge and high Protection. Why be a Magic Hero if you can't cast spells?
Knight: I assume that the fortifications are destroyable and rather easily so, otherwise they can be very seriously misused, especially considering the sniper's abilities.
Vindicator: A rather situational ability that is hardly better than Crusader's all around useful bonus.
Inquisitor: Again, rather situational. Hypnosys and Frenzy, while incredibly powerful, are the only major mind spells I can think of. And considering that both are (were?) Dark spells, one must consider if War Priest's ability is not better overall.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 15, 2011 09:22 PM |
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I'll return to comments on units later, but let me address your comments on heroes:
Quote:
I find it a little peculiar that the Core Might Hero has high Knowledge and mediocre Protection, while the Core Magic Hero low Knowledge and high Protection. Why be a Magic Hero if you can't cast spells?
Notice that the Magic hero will gain many more points in the Magic Attributes than the Might hero will. Thus, even though Might heroes has a higher percentage in Knowledge, that doesn't mean that he will have a higher absolute value of Knowledge. Let's consider an example.
A level 10 Knight has receive 20 attribute points. Of these, 1/8 are Magic Attrbute Points (MAP), equaling 2.5 MAP. 50 % of these will be Knowledge - statistically, he has received +1.25 Knowledge.
A level 10 Cleric has also received 20 attribute points, but of these 6/8 will be MAp, for a total of 15 MAP. Of these, 30 % go to Knowledge, equaling a gain of 4.5 Knowledge.
That being said, I'm open for changing the values, and I do agree it makes to have Knight (who is all about defence) focusing on Magic Defence rather than casting spells himself. On the other hand, as I figured it, protection from spells was part of the Cleric's portefolio, since he primarily uses Light spells that don't require a lot of Power or Knowledge. But yeah, given the changes I have in Mind for Power, maybe I should up Cleric's stats a bit on that part.
Quote:
Knight: I assume that the fortifications are destroyable and rather easily so, otherwise they can be very seriously misused, especially considering the sniper's abilities.
Yeah, not sure about the details on this. First off, walls would not be full walls, but just partial palisades to hinder passage, like 2-3 tiles wide (similar to Blade Barrier spell).
Second, enemies would be able to target walls with normal units, and will also bring in catapult for this battle!
Engineer will be able to repair palisades during combat.
Quote:
Vindicator: A rather situational ability that is hardly better than Crusader's all around useful bonus.
Ironically, I would consider Crusader's ability the less usefull one of the two. Details on how other is applied could be tweaked (in fact, are not specified), but more damage is generally better as I see it - but yes, it's more situational!
Quote:
Inquisitor: Again, rather situational. Hypnosys and Frenzy, while incredibly powerful, are the only major mind spells I can think of. And considering that both are (were?) Dark spells, one must consider if War Priest's ability is not better overall.
Blind and Confusion also? Possibly Sorrow.
As I see it, these two abilities actually both have their pros and cons. Sure, one applies to fewer spells, but also makes you go completely clean of those spells. Other one applies broader, but would have lower chance to succeed, and also means you are under the spell at least for a while, which may or may not be an issue.
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Borton
Hired Hero
A lemming in my pocket
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posted February 22, 2011 11:38 AM |
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More stuff please, I really love the hero properties section.
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The HOMM4 vampire is Dave Gahan!!!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 23, 2011 10:29 AM |
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Ok, an update. I made a small addition to Angel abilities, still not sure about changing Marksman - I don't personally see any conflict in the two abilities, but I'm open for suggestions.
Adding here Inferno Creatures with descriptions and abilities. Hero classes will follow later.
  
  
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted February 23, 2011 10:39 AM |
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Nice work!
how do you image the grunt?
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ICTC announced
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 23, 2011 10:41 AM |
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I imagine something like the H5 Horned Demon.
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