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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime
Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime This thread is 55 pages long: 1 10 20 30 ... 38 39 40 41 42 ... 50 55 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted February 07, 2013 11:24 AM
Edited by Elodin at 11:27, 07 Feb 2013.

Hmmm, it seems like the situation you quoted is not as clear as it appeared to be. The man in the car quite possibly accelerated the car towards the homeowner. In that case he had every right to shoot the driver. I guess all the details won't be known until the investigation is finished.

In any event, I doubt they'll be able to convict the man on murder. The most they'll be able to get would be manslaughter is my guess, and only if the car was in fact already leaving the driveway and the man had not threatened the homeowner.

Clicky

Quote:

According to Puglise, Sailors grabbed his gun as he headed outside, firing a warning shot into the air. He said he fired at Diaz only after Diaz accelerated his car toward him.

“He thought he was going to get run down,” the lawyer said.




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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted February 07, 2013 01:14 PM

In the situation YOU quoted, clearly a man died unnecessarily.

I think, if you are not realizing what you are actually saying, you are beyond any help, because the gist of your post is, every and any "threatening move" made against someone justifies a response with deadly force.

Now to me this sounds like good advice for dealing with suspicious individuals in a war zone, but not like the behaviour called for in a civilized state of law and order in peace time.

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Elodin
Elodin


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posted February 07, 2013 01:48 PM

Quote:
In the situation YOU quoted, clearly a man died unnecessarily.

I think, if you are not realizing what you are actually saying, you are beyond any help, because the gist of your post is, every and any "threatening move" made against someone justifies a response with deadly force.

Now to me this sounds like good advice for dealing with suspicious individuals in a war zone, but not like the behaviour called for in a civilized state of law and order in peace time.


Really?  Three armed intruders forced their way in his home and entered his bedroom he was wrong for opening fire?  What kind of thinking is that?!?!?!?! He was supposed to wait until they fired the first shot? He was supposed to watch as they raped his wife?  

I'd say three armed intruders forcing their way into your house is a threatening move.  If you chose not to defend yourself and your family that is your right. I love my family and will certainly defend them. Self defense is NOT uncivilized.

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GunFred
GunFred


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posted February 07, 2013 02:08 PM

Quote:
civilized state of law and order in peace time.

JJ, I think you misunderstood. Elodin is talking about the USA. (just joking)
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted February 07, 2013 02:23 PM

Elodin, you should read that article again you linked us to. NONE of those actually entered the house - it just looked like they might want to, and lest that happened the guy fired shots, probably killing one of them.

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Elodin
Elodin


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posted February 07, 2013 03:19 PM

Quote:
Elodin, you should read that article again you linked us to. NONE of those actually entered the house - it just looked like they might want to, and lest that happened the guy fired shots, probably killing one of them.


Watch the video on the page, it gives additional details. The men forced their way in his house and entered his bedroom and the elderly homeowner opened fire.
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GunFred
GunFred


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posted February 07, 2013 03:32 PM

I think you guys are talking about different cases right now...
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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


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Duke of the Glade
posted February 07, 2013 03:38 PM
Edited by gnomes2169 at 15:51, 07 Feb 2013.

Then the video is linked to the wrong report, because nowhere in the written report does it have a statement from any of the witnesses that they "Broke in," and they had clearly been in his driveway and pulling out when he shot. Seriously Elodin, just read the story without paying attention to the crap that they use to get an emotional appeal for either side. The sensationalism distorts the clarity and obvious conclusion, as usual, and the media doesn't want to say which side it right or wrong because that doesn't sell, but oddly enough they actually gave enough factual evidence this time that if you look past the emotional plays you can actually figure out what happened.

Er... Elodin? I just watched the video... you are thinking of the wrong case there buddy. In other words... you're sort of wrong... The most recent article you linked doesn't mention anything in the video of a break in.

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Elodin
Elodin


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posted February 07, 2013 04:36 PM

Quote:
Then the video is linked to the wrong report, because nowhere in the written report does it have a statement from any of the witnesses that they "Broke in," and they had clearly been in his driveway and pulling out when he shot. Seriously Elodin, just read the story without paying attention to the crap that they use to get an emotional appeal for either side. The sensationalism distorts the clarity and obvious conclusion, as usual, and the media doesn't want to say which side it right or wrong because that doesn't sell, but oddly enough they actually gave enough factual evidence this time that if you look past the emotional plays you can actually figure out what happened.

Er... Elodin? I just watched the video... you are thinking of the wrong case there buddy. In other words... you're sort of wrong... The most recent article you linked doesn't mention anything in the video of a break in.


No, the last few posts are talking about the story I linked to, the one about multiple intruders and the homeowner killing one of them.  Not about JJ's story about a homeowner killing a man in who pulled up into his driveway.
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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


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Duke of the Glade
posted February 07, 2013 04:47 PM

Quote:
Hmmm, it seems like the situation you quoted is not as clear as it appeared to be. The man in the car quite possibly accelerated the car towards the homeowner. In that case he had every right to shoot the driver. I guess all the details won't be known until the investigation is finished.

In any event, I doubt they'll be able to convict the man on murder. The most they'll be able to get would be manslaughter is my guess, and only if the car was in fact already leaving the driveway and the man had not threatened the homeowner.

Clicky

Quote:

According to Puglise, Sailors grabbed his gun as he headed outside, firing a warning shot into the air. He said he fired at Diaz only after Diaz accelerated his car toward him.

“He thought he was going to get run down,” the lawyer said.



Elodin, this is the last story you linked. This is the one we've been talking about. >.>

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted February 07, 2013 06:16 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 18:17, 07 Feb 2013.

Quote:
He was supposed to watch as they raped his wife?


What is it with you and rape? Do you believe all the world just waits to rape you and your family, or something? Honestly, who would actually besiege your home to rape someone? Sounds like a paranoia to me.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted February 07, 2013 06:22 PM

No, Elodin linked to one story, I linked to another.

The story HE linked to isn't mentioning anything about intruders. In fact, if you read the story, it's clear that the home owner wanted to avoid a supposed home invasion which is why he went out and fired some shots.

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GunFred
GunFred


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posted February 09, 2013 01:11 AM

From what I have heard, the shooter was a cop who was thrown under a bus when doing the right thing and exposing a bad cop. If what I have heard about him is true, I can sympathize for him a bit and hope that he is taken alive so that his voice can reach the people and hopefully society will learn something and police corruption decrease.
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted February 09, 2013 09:26 AM

Quote:
No, Elodin linked to one story, I linked to another.

The story HE linked to isn't mentioning anything about intruders. In fact, if you read the story, it's clear that the home owner wanted to avoid a supposed home invasion which is why he went out and fired some shots.


Like I said, if you watch the video on that page I linked to it gives more details about the case.  The three intruders forced their way in the man's home and entered his bedroom and he killed one, the others fled. One was caught by the cops and one is still at large.

I've already told you about the video once, you apparently want to refuse to watch it. Regardless, you are wrong.  The elderly man defended himself and his wife and one scumbag died and the rest fled. I know that is enough to make the blood of many liberals boil but oh well.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 09, 2013 10:13 AM

I don't think, I can accept media links that tell a story and link to videos that tell a completely different story. That is simply bad journalism.

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angelito
angelito


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posted February 09, 2013 10:20 AM

Quote:
...and one scumbag died...
I wonder what you think how  God's position is towards liberlism.
They way you talk about other human's life, I get more and more the feeling you have close to NOTHING in common with religion and belief at all. You may just be a big troll.

I know many many religious people of different kind if beliefs. There is not ONE single person who talks similar snootily about others like you do. It seems, for you, EVERYONE who commits a crime, not matter which, is allowed to shoot.

One day, you may meet the wrong person....
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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


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Duke of the Glade
posted February 09, 2013 05:46 PM

Elodin, all I have to say to you is click your link and then watch the video there. Nowhere did it state that anyone left the car at all. Nowhere did it state that there was any suspicious activity going on. Nowhere did it state that anything other than an over-reaction to someone coming onto the driveway happen. *Sigh* I'm starting to wonder if your memory is working well, buddy.

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Elodin
Elodin


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posted February 09, 2013 05:55 PM
Edited by Elodin at 17:57, 09 Feb 2013.

Quote:
Elodin, all I have to say to you is click your link and then watch the video there. Nowhere did it state that anyone left the car at all. Nowhere did it state that there was any suspicious activity going on. Nowhere did it state that anything other than an over-reaction to someone coming onto the driveway happen. *Sigh* I'm starting to wonder if your memory is working well, buddy.


Quote:

Another example of a homeowner defending himself and his family against three intruders. One dead, one in custody, one on the run.

Clicky

Quote:

One of three men who allegedly broke into a Las Vegas home was reportedly killed by the homeowner, who opened fire on the group.





1) The newscasters clearly stated the armed intruders forced their way into his home.  I'm starting to wonder if you are deaf.

2) The reporter on the scene stated "armed intruders worked their way into the home." I'm starting to wonder if you are deaf.

3) The interviewed officer stated "multiple intruders entered his residence and entered his bedroom.  I'm starting to wonder if you are deaf.

So, are you deaf?  Or did you not watch the video in question?

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Elodin
Elodin


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posted February 09, 2013 06:10 PM

Quote:
Quote:
...and one scumbag died...
I wonder what you think how  God's position is towards liberlism.
They way you talk about other human's life, I get more and more the feeling you have close to NOTHING in common with religion and belief at all. You may just be a big troll.

I know many many religious people of different kind if beliefs. There is not ONE single person who talks similar snootily about others like you do. It seems, for you, EVERYONE who commits a crime, not matter which, is allowed to shoot.

One day, you may meet the wrong person....


Well, Mr Moderator, I think the topic of what God thinks about liberalism is a subject for a different thread as it seems to be unrelated to this thread.

Ehhhhhhh....perhaps you are unfamiliar with the Scripture I have quoted on at least several occasions that says if somebody breaks into your house and you kill them there you have not sinned and shall not be punished. However, you are not take revenge by tracking a thief down and killing him once he leaves your property.

And no, please stop smearing me. I did not ever say to shoot all criminals. I believe in a person's right to defend themselves, their loved ones, strangers, and their property. If you'd rather let your daughter be raped in front of your eyes I guess you can sit her down afterwards (if you are both still alive) and explain to her that the safety of the rapist was much more important than the fact that she was getting raped. I think she'll not agree with you though, and I the thought of someone not loving their family enough to defend them makes me want to puke.

Quote:

“If the thief is caught while breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account. But if the sun has risen on him, there will be bloodguiltiness on his account. He shall surely make restitution; if he owns nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.” (Exodus 22:2-3 NASB)



Also, the Bible does not tippytoe around calling evil-doers evil-doers. It makes no excuses for sin. The TV did not make someone sin, nor did his first grade teacher scolding him, his daddy spanking him for hitting little Becky, nor did a video game he played.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Retired Hero
posted February 09, 2013 08:37 PM

Quote:
If you'd rather let your daughter be raped in front of your eyes



Here we go again...

so what's with you and rape?
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