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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: Heroes 5.5 - Eternal Essence - Misc. Discussion
Thread: Heroes 5.5 - Eternal Essence - Misc. Discussion This thread is 8 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT»
Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 02, 2011 03:37 AM

I will see what I can do about adding new heroes. starting with oblivion, since I suppose it's the easiest. though, it's not my work and I'm a little bit lost

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Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted June 02, 2011 01:38 PM

We have now a larger, more fully realized sample for the Decision Hall to inspire you: Hall of Decision sample map rev. 2

Markkur also provided a sketch:



Kudos to Markkur. Check out the Fire and Water Chamber (see the steam collision & watch the swan), the Crystal Cavern and Necro-bog-area.

I will offer some constructive criticism in the next days. Maybe you beat me to it.  (I am fully occupied to get 3.1c out of the door)

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted June 02, 2011 05:11 PM
Edited by markkur at 18:01, 02 Jun 2011.

 Sheeesh. Now do I regret not spending more time on my little sketch Looks like a 6 yr. old did it. Oh well, serves the purpose.

A few notes, thoughts etc.

I made the map after many hours cut out of two days. Even though I've not made a "fixed-quest", not my intent, I felt it important to make some backdrop. Good environments where parts of the Quest could occur. In addition, for those new to map-making, <IMO> environmental-lighting is critical. However, we are all using different PC, vid-cards etc, so my pick/efforts may not display in your game like they do on my machine. So share your "view". But this is not about map-making it is about the "Quest".

If helpful you might "print-out" the next little bit for "inspiration-fodder". I recommend doing that with all considerations or points that are relevant to you in creating a design. Remember also that even though I've spent time making it this way...that does not matter to me.

Hero's trail (portals are numbered to show current routes. 1-ways E= entrance and X= Exit)
a. There are 4 places where 2 heroes start out side by side. Each hero can see 1 other player at that time. (all 8 could be together)
b. from there they split and go to two different parts of the "Dwarves Halls".(upper, lower) Now the hero can run into 3 other players.
c. The halls are connected, so fairly quickly, a hero can come into contact with the remaining 3 heroes, (he/she has already seen 1 at start) of the 4 heroes in the other part of the chamber.
d. From here, passageways lead to chambers where "Events" can occur and due to discoveries of "information" within the remainder of the map the necessary steps/conditions for "Victory" are learned and finally achieved.
e. Bog Area is the main area. 3 portals lie at the end. Center goes to the Seer's hut. Outside is the 1-way that is guarded by the teal BG. The 1-way leads to that previously untouchable...5TH Fount.<L>

Very basic flow and all that. Sort-of

Sites
Dwarven Halls
a. Sphinx @{101,73}
b. Magma Shrine @{111,61}
c. Mysterious gating ring in Fortress enclosure @{83,33}
d. 1 obelisk @{67,31}
e. 3 dancing guys @ {70,24}
f. blocked-hall to teal Key master tent @{78,43}
g. CRITICAL, Obscured passage (secret dwarven tunnel) where the "scroll of dimension door"  is hidden among the stonework’s. (I used angels wings last time and of course they could be used instead or in addition etc.

My thoughts about any of this (so far)are few. I placed this stuff in hopes of sparking creativity. But, here are some random ideas;
"a" given a time deadline (if you touch it)
"b" given a clue "In the Hall of Fire and Water...you will end" (This is true, BUT you will not access the last fountain from "within" the chamber. You will come back "into the chamber" at victory.  
"c" something appears after doing something else
"d" gives over the "boots of the open road" to the first player there
"e" the smallest tells you a short but funny tidbit about the biggest, maybe a hint about the "Bog"...or...just a laugh?

Other Sites
a. memory mentor @[39.73}
b. graveyard @{21,60}
c. twin crystals in the Crystal Cavern @(57,120} & @{38,107}
d. Library of Enlightenment @{47,122}
e. den of thieves {50,94}
f. Spring of ER @{81,56}
g. Swan @{85,64}
h. sign @{91,59} reads "Sorry, Out of Order" and it points to a hut of the magi that is off-limits.
i. last but not least... Seer's hut @{119,128}

Hmmmm
a. the sage takes/gives blessing/curse, map or?
b. Need 1 skeleton to go with you for some reason?
c. Need "both" fire & water? Ties into the "like fountains (red/blue)" in the chamber?
d. Just think Enlightment(the big E) is what this is all about
e. need something that has to be stolen? and that call for a return trip in X amount of time?
f. Grants incredible movement for a day, two or three?
g. Pretty little tranquil Swan, maybe sweet music plays, (watch the color change) but then gives you a pack of Arch-Angels?
h. should there be humor/jokes? or even worse yet,...mis-direction?
i. Ask Q what you can do and...dream-up something

Five Founts
Here "the Quest could be told/revealed in stages" etc. at the 4 founts (referring story-info about the 5TH FOUNT), they could need to be revisited for other purposes (like Diablo One) Remember only 4 can be touched from within "The Chamber of Fire and Water".

My brain's drained. Yes I am a poet. Anyway, there's a start. If I can help, let me know.

Edit= What do we often do at fountian sites?...toss coins.

Please Roc-on!  
____________
"Do your own research"

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 02, 2011 08:47 PM

ok, here are the new types I need so far :

HERO_SPEC_OBLIVION3 (tier 3 speciality)
HERO_SPEC_OBLIVION4 (tier 4 speciality)

TOWN_OBLIVION

HERO_CLASS_BEASTMASTER
HERO_CLASS_WARLOCK_BEASTMASTER
HERO_CLASS_NECRO_BEASTMASTER

HERO_SKILL_BEASTMASTER_GATING
HERO_SKILL_BEASTMASTER_CONSUME_CORPSE
HERO_SKILL_BEASTMASTER_DEMONIC_FIRE
HERO_SKILL_BEASTMASTER_DEMONIC_STRIKE
HERO_SKILL_BEASTMASTER_QUICK_GATING
HERO_SKILL_BEASTMASTER_GATING_MASTERY
HERO_SKILL_BEASTMASTER_CRITICAL_GATING
HERO_SKILL_BEASTMASTER_DEMONIC_RETALIATION
HERO_SKILL_BEASTMASTER_EXPLODING_CORPSES
HERO_SKILL_BEASTMASTER_DEMONIC_FLAME
HERO_SKILL_BEASTMASTER_ABSOLUTE_GATING

so far, those are copies of the corresponding demon lord perks. I'll check if Kainc changed some of the values.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 02, 2011 10:16 PM

@Fauch: what do you mean?, you don't need copies of skills, neither do you need Quantomas to make the new classes. you just add your classes to the types.xml and heroclass.xdb and those perks work for any class.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 03, 2011 01:32 AM
Edited by Fauch at 01:33, 03 Jun 2011.

kainc made new icons for those perks(or maybe just some of them), so I guess I need a copy.

so I only have to find types.xml. I don't remember where it is...

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TheBaron
TheBaron


Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
posted June 03, 2011 06:51 AM

I'm going to write out an idea for a new Eternal Essence faction. Hold on to your hats!
____________
"My favorite" - Jean-
Baptiste Emmanuel Zorg.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 03, 2011 12:25 PM

Quote:
so I only have to find types.xml. I don't remember where it is...


root folder, unpacking rpe mod might help you finding things easier.

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TheBaron
TheBaron


Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
posted June 03, 2011 01:22 PM
Edited by TheBaron at 01:59, 04 Jun 2011.

I'm taking this faction idea out and making a separate thread for EE factions.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 03, 2011 04:22 PM

I'll check that later, but I think that already created factions take the priority.

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TheBaron
TheBaron


Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
posted June 03, 2011 04:57 PM

Quote:
I think that already created factions take the priority.


Absolutely

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Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted June 04, 2011 12:10 PM
Edited by Quantomas at 12:17, 04 Jun 2011.

Quote:
Heroes 5 is set in the most recent future of the current Heroes universe as far as I'm aware. So I figured that inventing a faction that ties in with what has happened, can also illustrate what is yet to happen (that's confusing). Anyway, I think it has legs.

Also, I prefer the idea of sequential upgrading rather than alternative upgrades, but for the purpose of currency I have made this faction with alternatives
eg. Little Baba -> Baba Yaga <-> Mama Yaga, however this could be easily changed.

City Name: Bulwark
Dominant race: Shifters (Were-beasts), also known as The People
Mythological base: Gypsy/Romany/Slavic folklore crossed with totemic peoples ala Ainu/Native (South)Americans.
Philosophy: A people who believe in the the hybrid spirits of man and beast.
Alignment: Neutral. They do not hate any other race, but they do want to claim their rightful lands.
Hero Types:
MALE: rank 1. Exile (Might), Wise-one (Magic). rank 2. Jager (Might), Totem (Magic).
FEMALE: rank 1. Wildling (Might), Wild-one (Magic). rank 2. Huntress (Might), Tytania (Magic).


Background:
Long ago before The People were strong, the Shifters of the Eastern steppes (beyond Ranaar) lived on the western borders of what was to become the Seven Duchies. They were peaceful and magically inferior nomads with wide but unmarked territories, who roamed the lands trading exotic items and fantastic stories. As the powers of the Irollan Elves and the Duchies grew, they exploited the innocence of The People and eventually forced them from their lands. As their numbers dwindled, they became hunted by the various peoples of the west. They were bloody sport for the duchy nobles, the earliest patients of wizard experimentation, bullied from the forests by the elves and, later, routinely tricked from their possessions by the dark-elves. They have managed to persevere through ages of oppression and bloodshed by adapting to new lands and by keeping strong ties to their heritage.

The People have lived on the eastern steppes for an age now, but being forced there with nothing, they were preyed upon by the beasts of this new land. They had to learn to live and hunt alongside animals for their survival. As time passed they became more and more like those they imitated, though the memory of their lost home kept them from losing their humanity entirely. Their feeling of loss galvanised their sense of identity, and wandering tribes gained strength from inter-marriage, cultural exchange and ritual developments. And so, The People flourished. They became strong and remembered their True Spirit that had kept them alive for so long.

Unlike the western men however, The People rejected the great dragon gods as The People in turn had felt rejected by them. When the factions of the west burned The People with black sorcery and magical fire, the dragons ignored them and lent them no power with which to defend themselves, for they had no divine allegiances. Rather, as The People grew, so too did their ties to the natural world of the animals. A form of ritual bonding tied the life-forces of The People and their pets, strengthening both parties and making one more like the other. The dogs became more intelligent and capable of basic speech, while the men grew more agile and experienced a heightening of their senses. As the benefits of these bonds became common knowledge among the various tribes, the village elders came from afar and gathered to discuss a new way of life for The People. This gathering became known as The Rising; on this day The People united and laid down a plan to become something more than human, more than animal, and to be free from the fear of slaughter. They devoted their lives to understanding the fabric of nature and life, tying themselves closer still to the natural world, beginning an understanding and manipulation of what they now call the Eternal Essence.

Rumour has it that The People have been seen in the Seven Duchies. Tales of men with wild eyes returning those lost in the forest to their path, and those caught in bogs to firm ground. Another story tells of a man running faster than a startled deer and preying on caravans, destroying even those with armed guards. If the rumours are true, perhaps The People are considering a return to their lost home...

It's grand. Awesomely inspiring.

This is the stuff that makes people go for more. It reminds me of the backdrop created by Relic for Homeworld originally in 1999, the backstory of the people who carved out a place in the world for themselves against all odds. The manual of the game is well worth reading for this story alone. It makes people attached to what they are doing in the game.

The quality of the lore and background you have written is excellent. It opens all possibilities and gives structure to what is already there without limiting it. You actually have tied in the Eternal Essence, embellished it without taking away from it by referring to it from the perspective of The People. I begin to suspect that you have more skill in this department than our small community imagined.

I totally love it when people use their ingenuity to come up with something grand. I say we do it. Sure, we have to look at the skills and faction design, but it is the lore and character of the faction that truly counts here.

You are aware that the magic essence is much more than magic terrain and stat enhancements, aren't you? It's ultimately a vehicle to tie game mechanics, background and story together. We can do much more in Eternal Essence than any other game out there, to create a living breathing world in which the story is enscripted in the magic essence. Words, runes, actions, magic, everything can flow from it to create a world in which the player can act according to the rules layed out and experience a rich story. Freedom and engagement.

I believe that a good game has to capture some real magic that inspires people. Something people can relate to, things they see in the world and themselves.

Eternal Essence can be that. It's a community driven effort but it is also the core of a project that can become its own independently developed AAA title. I am saying this to assure you that this project is meant to write a piece of gaming industry history, and that there are opportunities and rewards for people with talent they might not expect here.

Eternal Essence can be the prototype for a new hybrid game that ties together story telling, roleplaying elements and strategy. The Hall of Decision is a first step in this direction. My plan is to have a completely non-linear campaign, missions accessible from a big world map where things can unfold. For now let's just say the Bulwark can be an important part of it.

Quote:
I'll check that later, but I think that already created factions take the priority.

TheBaron is right, we do our best to accomodate what is already here. But in the end what matters is how good it is and whether it inspires people. These are the things I will actively support. Nevertheless, the design of new factions and towns will be completely open, so that modders can create their own without my doing, so that in the end the fans decide what factions they play with.

Ok, I have to get back to do the final tweaks for 3.1c, producing a clean version w/o debug trace, doing the final test runs and writing the documentation for the upgrades. This alone will take the better part of the day. There is a ton of new stuff coming your way to play with.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 04, 2011 01:28 PM

Quote:
Ok, I have to get back to do the final tweaks for 3.1c, producing a clean version w/o debug trace, doing the final test runs and writing the documentation for the upgrades. This alone will take the better part of the day. There is a ton of new stuff coming your way to play with


Were you also plannning to correct the NCF compatibility with this version? if not could you at least keep the classes in, because they seem to work perfectly stable already with 3.1.8?
____________
MMH5.5 Downloads | MMH5.5 Translations | MMH5.5 FAQ

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 04, 2011 06:55 PM

more things I will need and that probably have to be hardcoded :

a fix of the ability agility, so that it works on flying creatures.

a new ability : ABILITY_FORGOTTEN

creature with this ability can be seized. Seizure is the exact same skill as Gating, except that it works only on creatures with the ABILITY_FORGOTTEN (I think Gating works only with creatures from the Inferno faction)

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TheBaron
TheBaron


Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
posted June 05, 2011 02:56 AM

Thanks so much for the compliment Q! I understand that EE is going to be a significant influence on the total game mechanics, but perhaps it's because of the scale that I have a hard time visualising it in game. I tried to link The People's mythos to what I understood EE to currently be - something that effects the entire reality of the Heroes Universe, almost like the Source from the Wheel of Time series.

I think that writing Eternal Essence into the story and providing a broader context for Heroes 5 is highly important in providing a full extension of the existing game, rather than just an add-on. Consequently one needs to consider what's happening in the world of Ashan to accommodate this new (or rediscovered) force; How are the existing races are responding to this force? where did it come from? how do the dragon gods feel about it (if they care at all)? I think this fully ties the existing campaigns to the new ones you mentioned.


Your seizure ability sounds awesome Fauch. Will you use the same ground icon for the seized units?

My sister works for WETA studios (the people who did the CGI for LOTR) and so I thought of asking her to give me some Maya lessons so I could make my own models, but unfortunately she's in New Zealand for at least another year... Good things come to those who wait.

I'm really excited about the new release!

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 05, 2011 03:44 AM
Edited by Fauch at 15:55, 05 Jun 2011.

it is Kainc's faction. I don't remember if he changed the mark

other abilities that should be fixed :

armored makes the creature immune against precise shot and rider charge, but not again the 50% defense reduction from force arrow...


creatures with enchanted obsidian take full damage from :
-call of the storm
-explosion
-searing aura
-set a fire
-fire shield
-magma shield
-lava breath

while those effects are normally reduced or negated by magic protection, immunity and elemental protection and immunity.

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted June 05, 2011 04:10 PM

Quote:
I understand that EE is going to be a significant influence on the total game mechanics, but perhaps it's because of the scale that I have a hard time visualising it in game.


You're not alone there. The Editor, over the last several months, has just about shut-down my imagination with all of the needless constraints

You told me story-telling is a strong suit of yours, now I see some evidence and agree. Good stuff. I'm not saying this is needed; but can the folks brain-storm with you on your faction?

Quote:
My sister works for WETA studios (the people who did the CGI for LOTR) and so I thought of asking her to give me some Maya lessons so I could make my own models,...


Great idea! I have the compilation set of the DVDs and the segments concerning "WETA and design" are my favorites. e.g. <imo> The story of how Gollum came to be (the mix of all departments)as he was finally  presented is very well done.

Anyway Baron,again...well done
____________
"Do your own research"

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TheBaron
TheBaron


Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
posted June 05, 2011 05:01 PM

Thanks so much for the kudos Markkur, it's so nice to hear a positive response after creating something .... makes me realise how long it has been since I actually did anything creative, rather than simply productive.

After speaking to my sister about it, it unfortunately looks like she won't be able to help me for some time. Either I learn how to model on my own, or get a pro to help me down the track... in other words, don't hold your breath for models from me!

I'll try and concentrate on refining the ideas I got out there. If Quantomas can direct me on how I might be able to conceptualise the Essence affinity that would be great, but for starters I'll attempt to insert some really dodgy creature trials into the game with the RTMG. Lord I wish there was a more powerful editing tool!!! Especially because RTMG has pretty limited functionality (full credit to the maker, it is INFINITELY better than nothing). If anyone has any ideas for improvements please feel free to post it on the faction page I started.

Cheers again people! I think I might give 3.1c a burl now!
____________
"My favorite" - Jean-
Baptiste Emmanuel Zorg.

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Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted June 06, 2011 02:43 PM
Edited by Quantomas at 18:16, 06 Jun 2011.

Quote:
If Quantomas can direct me on how I might be able to conceptualise the Essence affinity that would be great

The Source from the Wheel of Time is a good comparison.

Eternal Essence is the one magic that defines the world, the universal grid, everything in the world is made from it. The more you truly understand of it, the more control you can leverage.

Technically, every creature has an innate understanding of it, but they wouldn't see it as magic, rather as their natural inborn skills, it's just the normal way the world works. This subjective perspective is on the other hand what limits the creatures' control of the essence. The wise wizard has to transcend himself to see the being beyond the self, the essence that truly forms the being. The more he truly understands, he becomes one with the essence. The truly powerful ones can control every aspect of their being. The common magic users are mere tinkerers who employ ritual and formulas, whereas the power of the true wizard has not been witnessed for centuries ...

For me, our own world is full of magic as well. But we are so used to it, that we don't see it as such. We don't perceive the divine power that flows through us, that enable us to do incredible things. We just take it for granted that our cells can heal, that a ray of hope can totally lift our spirits, or that we can see and speak, use a language to true artistic effect.

I am a professional inventor and I look at these things systematically, with a special focus on research how quantum physics, genetics and the mind are connected and bring our world into being.

But I am also a professional programmer who develops the means to model these concepts, a new advanced programming language really, QR, an acronym that stands for quantum ringcode. It's technically the digital equivalent of the eternal essence, a code that can describe the being. It's not ready to be rolled out as a mainstream programming language yet, but I plan to have the Eternal Essence designed in a similar way, so that we have some kind of real magic in the game that we can shape and transform in the virtual world as we see fit.

You can also use The Matrix as an analogy, the grand masterpiece of the Wachowski brothers that not only played with these different realities, but had a great undercurrent that only the ones with the right insight perceive in full, a more scientific, accurate story that tells us more about the world. QR would be what drives The Matrix.

It's the story of a world, in which people live assumedly normal lives, and those people who can see beyond the digital veil can alter their being.

With this, we are back in our own world. One day people might use a greater force, and we will wake up in a bigger world. That is what I mean, every good video game needs to have real magic in it, something people can relate to although most will not fathom why. In Eternal Essence we have true power to play with these realities.

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted June 07, 2011 04:18 PM
Edited by markkur at 17:37, 07 Jun 2011.

For anyone that is working on the Hall of Decision design.

I've had an idea and fashioned another map as a background. This map is quite a bit different than the first maps.

1. The faction-selection-circles show where Heroes could start.

2. All players start in the middle in the Dwarven Hall and from their the "labyrinths" run outward. This should make for a lot of running back and forth and crossing paths of other players. (Chat might be fun) I've chosen "Fire. Water, Earth and Air/Wind as an elemental theme and I see that as a "nod to the magic of "5.5 E.E.

3. Hopefully this lay-out will give you some ideas.

Good luck

labyrinth
____________
"Do your own research"

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