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| Thread: 8 month old genderless child. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV |
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Corribus
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posted September 12, 2011 03:35 PM |
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I guess we should have gender-specific dark alleyways as well. If mvass is correct, this would greatly cut down on rape frequency in urban areas.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Fauch
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posted September 12, 2011 07:14 PM |
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I have doubts a rapist is going to follow such rules.
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mvassilev
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posted September 13, 2011 12:12 AM |
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Bak:
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Why not have unisex bathrooms during the day then? You can divide them back at night, if it raises the rape risks so much.
It's too complicated. Bathroom-related behavior is deeply ingrained in culture, and changing it like this would not lead to anything good. And bathroom rape can occur during the day too - if there's only one person in the bathroom, and a would-be rapist of the opposite sex walks in, rape.
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What's next, you should put cameras above toilet seats to reduce the risk that someone's doing drugs in there?
I don't think disregard for privacy has reached such a level yet, although it wouldn't surprise me to hear that some schools are doing this. I wouldn't support it because such a measure would be too invasive of individual privacy - it's a lot harder to tell if someone is doing drugs than if there are two people of the opposite sex in one separate-sex bathroom, so any measure to detect it would be invasive, and more invasive than it's worth.
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Aren't those students a tad too... young, to be transvestites?
I'm not an expert on this subject, but even if they haven't started transitioning yet, they may already not identify with either gender, or identify with the gender that is different from the one that is associated with their genitals. I know of such people.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted September 13, 2011 01:18 AM |
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Edited by Corribus at 01:20, 13 Sep 2011.
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Quote:
Bathroom-related behavior is deeply ingrained in culture, and changing it like this would not lead to anything good.
And yet just two pages ago you argued vigorously against conforming to established social norms, and depth of ingrainment in culture didn't seem to enter into your equation. In a manner of speaking, forcing people to use different restrooms is just another form of enforcing gender roles. You could easily say, for example, that allowing women into the workplace increases opportunity for rape, harassment, and other sexual crimes, not to mention adultery. It's the same argument you're using here.
For that matter, separate restrooms for whites and blacks was once deeply ingrained in culture, and many probably thought that "changing it to allow for interracial bathrooms would not lead to anything good". Probably many argued that having blacks and whites in the same restrooms would open up opportunities for interracial violence.
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mvassilev
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posted September 13, 2011 01:52 AM |
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There's a big difference between choosing not to conform to gender roles and bathroom culture. If you don't conform to gender roles, some people might disapprove of you, but that's all they can do, while the benefits of being being able to be who you genuinely are instead of conforming are much greater. If someone doesn't conform to bathroom culture, there is a real danger of something bad happening. Having people of different genders use different bathrooms is not an enforcement of gender roles but a recognition of gender identity - something very different. Gender identity only means one uses the facilities intended for the use of one gender. Gender roles means one conforms to a prescribed personality/range of activities/interests as a result of social pressure. Gender identity means the facilities have to be separate, but doesn't mean they have to be different (except where biologically justified). Gender roles means the way men and women should act should be different. As for the "letting women out into the world" argument, I don't buy it at all. On one hand, yes, being at work increases the probability of sexual harassment outside of the home, but on the other hand it provides a woman with a source of income and greater independence, which gives her more leverage at home. As for adultery, that's completely unrelated to the current discussion, since it involves consenting adults.
The situation with blacks is also not analogous, since they were not just separate but treated worse. And you're taking my quote completely out of context, which was Bak's suggestion of changing bathrooms from unisex to separate-sex based on time of day.
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friendofgunnar
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posted September 13, 2011 06:37 AM |
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Del Diablo:
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FriendOfGunnar: "natural instincts of gender".......... eh what?
Care to elaborate?
What is this thing?
alright I'll tell you what instinct that is - In the case of boys it's the instinct to be fascinated by the role violence and aggression plays in human society. It's a no-brainer really. Check this out. Somebody has created an armory for lego minifigures. It's kinda funny, because this is exactly the type of thing I would have wanted if I'd it had been around when I was growing up. Let's read some of the customer feedback.
Awesome...just what my son wanted! Thanks!
boys loved them.thanks
Super fast shipping..My son loves the items. THanks
AWESOME!! My son wil love these!! Great Seller A+++
a pleasure to deal with, thanks Alex, my son is rapt!
cool small stuff for small boys ! fast shipping ! 4x5 stars !
Just what my son was looking for, thanks!
Came pretty quickly and my son was very pleased! Thanks!
Thank you. My son loves them!
Arrived early and as described, my son was very happy
My son was so happy and excited when he received his toys! Thank you so much.
Item as described. My son was very happy with them.
Great seller! Packed well! Shipped fast!! Made my son very happy!! A+++++
Perfect for my son!
Thanks so much for all your care they arrived in time for my grandsons birthday
Perfect! Just what my son was looking for!
son is happy
My son loves them. Great transaction.
Grandson Thrilled! Great International Purchase! Thank you! A+++++++++++++++++++
My son is very happy with this gift.
thanks my son loves them
great - son loves these
he loves them
Great little set, son is over the moon, very fast postage AA++
thank u my son was very happy
perfect, my son loved them
That's just the first seven pages. I haven't yet seen anything referring to girls but you're welcome to scan through the other 21 pages.
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del_diablo
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Manifest
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posted September 13, 2011 11:41 AM |
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FriendOfGunnar: If its a instict, why does it need to be indoctrinated and taught?
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Fauch
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posted September 13, 2011 01:47 PM |
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how is it indoctrinated? through advertising? or do ads show boys playing with guns because they know they are instinctively drawn toward them?
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted September 13, 2011 03:42 PM |
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If there was only ads with girls with guns, would boys still want such a girly thing?
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friendofgunnar
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posted September 13, 2011 08:54 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 21:11, 13 Sep 2011.
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Chicks With Guns! **** YEAH!  
mebbe NSFW
MOD EDIT: You know the rules about proper censoring, FoG...
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baklava
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posted September 15, 2011 11:37 AM |
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Are you really saying, MVass, that in the age of nanotechnology and gene patenting, it would be too complicated to have unisex bathrooms during the day.
Seems to me that what you call "gender identity" is a form of traditional gender apartheid, which you wouldn't change because of
a) the perceived material costs, and
b) social pressure. Whatever we're afraid to believe because people would laugh at us, but we would believe in it if the majority shared our views, is suddenly "gender identity". See how everyone pretended not to like homosexuals until someone stepped forward and said "I'm not only gay but I'm also going to write that on my t-shirt and take a walk down the street... with a strap-on" and it turned out everyone was with them all along. If everyone acted like you do, gay parades would be confined to liberal arts colleges as well and San Francisco would still be pretending it's straight.
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is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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JollyJoker
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posted September 15, 2011 12:35 PM |
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God forbid! Have you never noticed the queue in font of the ladies's room, for example on airports? There are only so many cubicles, but unisex bathrooms would probably mean, no urinals anymore, which would mean waiting half an hour or something, just to take a leak.
On the other hand, that would of course be a chance as well! Urinals for women! Women of the world, learn to pee standing! This would certainly annihilate the last bastion of male dominance, and you might even have a nice talk at the urinals.
Might give the rise to new clothing styles as well, so girls won't be virtually caught with their pants down. Also Gents' Rooms might become friendlier all over - nice wallpapers, big mirrors, flowers and stuff in the classier ones.
But would there also be unisex bathroom parades once a year?
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mvassilev
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posted September 15, 2011 09:50 PM |
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Bak:
Quote:
Are you really saying, MVass, that in the age of nanotechnology and gene patenting, it would be too complicated to have unisex bathrooms during the day.
Yes. The people developing nanotechnology and genes are intelligent and probably good at adapting to new situations. Not everybody is, and rapists are more likely to be socially "challenged" and even worse at adapting than the average person.
Gender identity has nothing to do with apartheid, as apartheid requires negative discrimination, which I'm certainly not advocating.
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baklava
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posted September 16, 2011 12:43 AM |
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Edited by baklava at 00:54, 16 Sep 2011.
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Yes there's negative discrimination. There's a widespread belief that both genders are equal, which is clearly discriminatory against males*.
Anyhow, do you actually strongly believe that most of our fellow humans - when faced with 3 doors with 3 signs - one saying "Day Bathroom", the other saying "Night Bathroom: Ladies" and the third saying "Night Bathroom: Gentlemen" - would not be able to comprehend where exactly they are supposed to urinate?
Seriously?
"Adapt to new situations"? They're not expected to grow a pair of wings, for chrissakes.
I mean, I understand you live in America**, but this is slightly over the top, isn't it.
However, you make one good point - rapists are invariably socially challenged individuals. So, imagine this scenario:
Night falls. The rapist needs to urinate. He goes to the bathroom - he sees the signs, the doors. Three doors, with signs on them saying all kinds of confusing things. "Day toilet, night toilet, WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN" goes his mind, and in desperation, he enters the wrong one - a clear indication of his sexual deviance. He is taken into custody, and the society is free from one more rapist.
Wouldn't that be practical?
*In case of feminists, this was a joke. I am, of course, a model citizen and proud supporter of gender (and meta-gender) equality.
**In case of Elodin, this was a joke too.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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mvassilev
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posted September 16, 2011 01:16 AM |
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But then you'd need 3 bathrooms, a change that would require significant structural changes in nearly every publicly accessible building. Not to mention the inefficiency of having a bathroom that can only be used during the day. Plus, it's not just day vs. night - it's about high traffic vs. low traffic. Someone can get raped during the day just as well, if no one's coming in, and a 1.5x increase in bathrooms would reduce traffic.
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"Day toilet, night toilet, WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN" goes his mind, and in desperation, he enters the wrong one - a clear indication of his sexual deviance. He is taken into custody, and the society is free from one more rapist.
Not everyone who makes a mistake like that is a would-be rapist. Nor should entering the wrong bathroom be a crime.
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gnomes2169
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posted September 16, 2011 07:42 AM |
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The amount of rape that would be gotten away with in a public restroom: 0%-.00001%, all late at night. Why? Cameras outside of stalls and it's open to the public. a rapist would be doin' his thing when another person walks in to use the john... and rape is sort of hard to hide.
A solution to all your problems, single person bathroom/ bathroom stall with a lock. Works for gas stations, movie theaters, restaurants, etc, etc, would work for most every (non-fast food) location. And what the hell kind of rapist hangs around in Mc Donalds? I mean, what the hell man? Seriously? Mc Donalds? Society will be long dead and hell frozen over before even a rapist looses that much pride...
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-Ghost destroying Fred
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JollyJoker
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posted September 16, 2011 08:06 AM |
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As I said - single stalls for all at public places means long waiting times which is not good. Urinals are very practical and the processing is faster - why sacrifice them on the altar of equality although there is a biological difference.
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