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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: Mod request : Bigger Battlefields
Thread: Mod request : Bigger Battlefields
Pavijan
Pavijan


Adventuring Hero
posted October 01, 2011 09:55 PM
Edited by Pavijan at 21:57, 01 Oct 2011.

Mod request : Bigger Battlefields

There was really only one thing that is bothering me somewhat in Heroes V:
Battlefield is kinda small compared to before, (H6 unfortunately seams to continue this trend ), but as you all know siege battlefield is actually bigger - 14x14 compared to 12x10. Not much, but...

So, can anyone make a mod that will change ALL battlefields to 14x14?
One idea : Maybe edit siege battlefields (remove walls and such) and change them into regular ones that will replace standards...

I have seen lot of new battlefields made by modders (some really nice ones) so I'm wandering is it possible.

So, anyone?

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siinn
siinn


Adventuring Hero
posted October 02, 2011 10:58 AM

Sure this is a very good idea!!!
I hope some modder here will be able to do this, it seems easy at first but I hope this will not involve too much complexity...
 

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Conundrum
Conundrum

Tavern Dweller
posted October 23, 2011 01:58 PM

This is something that upset me as well in heroes V. The battlefields are way too small which minimizes the importance of unit placement and considerably weakens the role of shooter units, while giving an advantage to more melee focused armies.

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Jantz
Jantz

Tavern Dweller
posted October 24, 2011 01:00 AM

Quote:
This is something that upset me as well in heroes V. The battlefields are way too small which minimizes the importance of unit placement and considerably weakens the role of shooter units, while giving an advantage to more melee focused armies.

What's so good about giving the advantage to ranged-attacking creatures? As I can understand some factions (elves, wizards) will surely benefit from it while others (dark elves, demons) will suffer. And it's not all about shooters. Enlarging battlefields will cause speed related problems as well. Ok, may be I agree with u about bigger battlefields, i'm sure there's smth exciting about it, the battles are bound to become more large-scale or something. But one should realize it'll ruin the balance . For ex. by design a blood fury is supposed to reach and hit her target right at the start of a battle, u know it's a pretty fragile creature but she makes up for the lack of hit points and defence by being able to hit first. That's what makes it worth the money u pay for it.
 In other words, currently there's a big difference between speed 7 and 8, enlarging the battlefield is going to erase the difference. At the start of a combat all creatures (having the speed of 5 to 9.), no matter if it's a Black Dragon, a blood fury, or a unicorn, thenceforth all of them will have to move at least twice to reach a target stack (most frequently it's a shooter of course). No privileged units. No balance.(that was carefully polished by hundreds of people BTW)  

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zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 24, 2011 01:21 AM

same thing as jantz.

Also some perks will suffer greatly from such a change - aura of swiftness - useless, tactics - semi useless, stormwind - semi useless. Sylvan - retardedly weak, Haven - retardedly weak, inferno too, orcs too, while magic factions wont fear first turn charge and will have one extra turn to cast destr/dark spells ...

all charging units will become useless and rune of charge will be tha most IMBAA thing ever

And it will make the initial unit placement unimportant - noone can reach u, just use random placement

+++ lot more ...

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Conundrum
Conundrum

Tavern Dweller
posted October 24, 2011 10:35 AM

Well I wasn't thinking about doubling the battlefield size nor anything like it. I just kinda miss the mobility one used to have with HOMM 3. Not that the battlefields were much bigger (15/11, comparing to 5's 12/10, IIRC) but it made a difference along with the hex grid and certain spells. Unit placement felt a lot more relevant, although I must admit the quads, even in their limitations do have certain advantages of their own, such as making it easier to block a path to an enemy unit. We can't have hex back, though, but I guess enlarging the battlefields to 15/11 would be an improvement gameplay-wise, though, like you said, this would imply a complete rebalancing.

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Pavijan
Pavijan


Adventuring Hero
posted October 24, 2011 11:30 AM
Edited by Pavijan at 12:07, 24 Oct 2011.

There are some really valid arguments here, but:

Quote:

What's so good about giving the advantage to ranged-attacking creatures?


Because that is the point of ranged creatures?
As with furies, these are also those who are fragile, but can kill units from afar before they can reach them. One of things I liked about Heroes IV was that even the fastest units, except teleporters can not reach other side in one turn. That made shooters  much more truer to their role. So...
Quote:

thenceforth all of them will have to move at least twice to reach a target stack (most frequently it's a shooter of course)

Yes please...
Quote:

 In other words, currently there's a big difference between speed 7 and 8, enlarging the battlefield is going to erase the difference.

So speed for certain units, (these who REALLY need that: furies, Devils ...) can be increased. Nothing is easier to mod than that. (I have done some little modding for my personal uses, so I know. But unfortunately I don't know how to make arenas or model and have very little free time for that, otherwise I would do this myself).
Quote:

 No privileged units. No balance.(that was carefully polished by hundreds of people BTW)  


I thought that No privileged units = Balance.
Quote:

Also some perks will suffer greatly from such a change - aura of swiftness - useless, tactics - semi useless, stormwind - semi useless.


Perks I suppose should also be modifiable...
Quote:

Sylvan - retardedly weak, Haven - retardedly weak.


Really? How about Arcane Archers and Marksmen? Those would definitely benefit from this.

As I said before, in Heroes III even dragons and phoenixes could hit 2 units tops in first strike. How we have multi-hitters who easily can decide outcome of decisive battle in one stike in turn one...

But anyway, this was is only request for MOD, who can have it's own balance that can be tweaked for hose who want it , not for some obligatory patch that are you forced to use. If you don't need it, you don't have to use it. And that's it...

Of course, if it's possible... If it's not, than all this discussion can be thrown out of the window.




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Conundrum
Conundrum

Tavern Dweller
posted October 24, 2011 11:45 AM

Is it possible to make though? I've checked a few threads about Arena creation, bu apparently it's limited to the default non-siege dimensions. Is the grid size really hard-coded or something?

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 24, 2011 11:37 PM
Edited by Fauch at 23:37, 24 Oct 2011.

it seems logical that you can not change the size of existing arenas since they were built with that size in mind, but maybe it is possible to make new arenas of different sizes.

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Conundrum
Conundrum

Tavern Dweller
posted October 25, 2011 12:01 AM

Well, obviously, but the grid the size is not at all covered in every arena creation tutorial I've checked. Other than having generally larger battlefields, it would be fairly interesting if we could control the precise dimensions of the grid as to create very specific arenas (for example a thinner, longer arena in the middle of bridge), or have something like fixed obstacle placement, just like siege maps are split in half by castle walls.

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Jantz
Jantz

Tavern Dweller
posted October 25, 2011 12:46 AM

Quote:
But anyway, this was is only request for MOD, who can have it's own balance that can be tweaked for hose who want it , not for some obligatory patch that are you forced to use. If you don't need it, you don't have to use it

Well, I understand all the advantages of bigger battlefields I didn't want to prove u wrong! Actually I'd love to have these (same with both H6 and EE) myself. BUT NOT UNTILL we have totally rebalanced H5. Once somebody has volunteered to re-balance the whole game, I'll be the first to vote for enlarging combat arenas..

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Pavijan
Pavijan


Adventuring Hero
posted October 25, 2011 12:46 AM
Edited by Pavijan at 01:06, 25 Oct 2011.

Well grid size is definitely hard coded. But was something in those tutorials for editing siege arenas? If we could make them available in normal fights, than we could maybe edit them later to suit that purpose. Are siege walls in them removable?

Quote:

Well, I understand all the advantages of bigger battlefields I didn't want to prove u wrong! Actually I'd love to have these (same with both H6 and EE) myself. BUT NOT UNTILL we have totally rebalanced H5. Once somebody has volunteered to re-balance the whole game, I'll be the first to vote for enlarging combat arenas..

Everything at the time... First we have to see are large arenas usable for normal fight. Once we acknowledge that they are,ONLY then we can tak about re-balancing.
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